Triple Backup on the oceangoing cruiser

Started by newt, June 17, 2008, 11:45:53 AM

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newt


I am going to open a can of worms- What if once we decided was is essential for cruising that we established a triple redundancy for it on our boats? Take fresh water for example-
First line- foot pumped out of boat tank.
2nd line-second tank that can be hand pumped (involves buying a hand pump and extra)
3rd line- Water jugs that are chlorinated and sealed for emergency use.

Too much? Perhaps, but I am seriously thinking along these lines for propulsion, navigation and basic necessities of life before I sail over the horizon. In order not to hijack another thread, I will start a new one....

Navigation
First line GPS with charts
2nd Line- DR with fixes
3rd Line Sextant and Celestial Navigation

A key virtue (at least to me) is that I would have to be competent in each system before I started bluewater work. And it seems that I would always have the security of a backup.
Perhaps this violates the KISS principle, but it would most certainly cause me to prepare for the unexpected breakdowns. They say that cruising in merely repairs in exotic locations. If I have triple backup, I might be able to make those repairs in more mundane (and cheaper) ports.
When I'm sailing I'm free and the earth does not bind me...

CharlieJ

Interesting thoughts.

On the water. We have two totally separate tanks, which I think of as the minimum. One tank alone is simply asking for problems. They operate with a foot pump for which we carry a rebuild kit. The after tank can also be accessed by disconnecting a hose and gravity feeding water into a jug.

We also carry 5 to 8 gallons of water in half and one gallon jugs, which Laura uses to trim the boat as needed and as supplies dwindle.

We also have the boat set up for sheet to tiller steering and we have a tiller pilot. I am in the process of building a vane system, so we will then have four methods of steering- SST, tillerpilot, vane and lastly, by hand. Steering a sailboat by hand on passage in the open ocean has GOT to be one of the most boring (and tiring) things a person can do, other than work at a desk :D
Charlie J

Lindsey 21 Necessity


On Matagorda Bay
On the Redneck Riviera

Godot

I think triple redundancy for critical systems is a really good idea....

Gettin' rid of unwanted water....

1. Electric Bilge Pump
2. Manual Bilge Pump
3. Scared sailor with a bucket.
Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

Manannan

 Yes, and one of the three never fail.... ;)
Leaving always represents the same challenge to one's self : that of daring...

newt

Ha ha very funny. I won't tell you about my launch of  a ancient catalina without her thru hulls secured...and no working bilge pump.
Lets just say that the backups should allow you to continue your cruise without spending all your time performing the backup. How bout for bilge water:
1. electric pump
2. manual in cabin pump - high volume
3. cockpit pump- just in case you have visually navigate too, or the cabin fills with water.
BTW- Lynn and Larry have an interesting discussion on this- they are very much into battery powered things (such as a depth sounder!) to get greater reliability/backup.
When I'm sailing I'm free and the earth does not bind me...

Godot

Two manual pumps is probably a good idea.  Don't give up on the lowly bucket, though.  A more useful invention has yet to be found!

I wonder a little how I would do triple backup for propulsion.  Sails, motor, oars?  Except I HATE motors and consider them a necessary evil.  There is no way I would carry enough fuel to go a significant distance.

Maybe an extra sail?  Or some sort of pre-worked provision for a jerry rig?  (some sort of spar would need to be carried ... double as a spinnaker pole?)

Oars or Yuloh seams pretty wise, in any case.  Not that you are going to cross an ocean using them; but it will get you the last few miles.
Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

AdriftAtSea

A  long scullling oar with a notch in the transom. :)
Quote from: s/v godot on June 17, 2008, 08:32:07 PM
Two manual pumps is probably a good idea.  Don't give up on the lowly bucket, though.  A more useful invention has yet to be found!

I wonder a little how I would do triple backup for propulsion.  Sails, motor, oars?  Except I HATE motors and consider them a necessary evil.  There is no way I would carry enough fuel to go a significant distance.

Maybe an extra sail?  Or some sort of pre-worked provision for a jerry rig?  (some sort of spar would need to be carried ... double as a spinnaker pole?)

Oars or Yuloh seams pretty wise, in any case.  Not that you are going to cross an ocean using them; but it will get you the last few miles.
s/v Pretty Gee
Telstar 28 Trimaran
Yet we get to know her, love her and be loved by her.... get to know about My Life With Gee at
http://blog.dankim.com/life-with-gee
The Scoot—click to find out more

Tim

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on June 17, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
A  long scullling oar with a notch in the transom. :)
I am working on mine right now
"Mariah" Pearson Ariel #331, "Chiquita" CD Typhoon, M/V "Wild Blue" C-Dory 25

"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
W.A. Ward

maxiSwede

I am not sure about TRIPLE backups, especially on a SBLD kind of boat. That would add a monstruos amount of weght and stowage...

One thing I wouldn't go without though, is a spare mainsail, perhaps the old one...?
s/v  Nanna
Southern Cross 35' Cutter in French Polynesia
and
H-boat 26' - Sweden

svnanna.wordpress.com

Lynx

Multiple use items would go a long way.

Sails (boom tent or traps can be used as a sail), motor, dinghy with motor.

Depth sound. spare line with knots tied and a rock

MacGregor 26M

Manannan

triple back up on one mutliple use item : The Bucket  ;D
Leaving always represents the same challenge to one's self : that of daring...

newt

This is where it gets fun- I have two buckets on my current boat- storage containers, emergency bilge, and a last line poop depository. For locomotion- sails, engine (even your dingy outboard), oars. I think the line should be drawn on the following premise: can you continue your voyage with just your backup working? If you can't  then it really isn't a backup, it is an emergency improvisation.
I agree totally with using some devices in multiple use- a bucket and oars being two good examples. Who hasn't used an oar to push out of the mud?
Speaking of emergencies, though- I think it would be common sense just to have one ERIB, and to test it frequently. Same with hand held VHF (unless that is your only radio) So emergency equipment probably does not need to be backed up, because the equipment in of itself is a last resort to your boat.
Steering?
1. Electric autopilot or windvane
2. Sheet to tiller (use multiuse line already on boat and two good pulleys with bungees that I can secure the main with if needed)
3. Self, with lashing the tiller as much as possible.
When I'm sailing I'm free and the earth does not bind me...

Auspicious

I have a vision of going out this weekend to see how far I can tow Auspicious behind the dinghy with oar power ...
S/V Auspicious
HR 40 - a little big for SailFar but my heart is on small boats
Chesapeake Bay

Beware cut and paste sailors.

newt

I had always imagined rowing from the cockpit with the dingy strapped to the boat (like I did my Cat 27) however if the shoe fits... ::)
When I'm sailing I'm free and the earth does not bind me...

newt

#14
I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat. For a good starting point I would recommend their site.
Does anyone use a single oar with a notch to get them in and out of slips? I would be real interested in how this works. When there is no wind I use my oar like a canoe paddle, but I probably could learn a better way.
When I'm sailing I'm free and the earth does not bind me...

Godot

Quote from: newt on June 21, 2008, 06:45:39 PM
I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat.

Do you have the URL?  I'm not sure if I've been there (although it is hard to believe I haven't at least briefly stopped by a sailing site).
Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

AdriftAtSea

probably: http://www.longpassages.org/

Quote from: s/v godot on June 21, 2008, 10:13:03 PM
Quote from: newt on June 21, 2008, 06:45:39 PM
I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat.

Do you have the URL?  I'm not sure if I've been there (although it is hard to believe I haven't at least briefly stopped by a sailing site).
s/v Pretty Gee
Telstar 28 Trimaran
Yet we get to know her, love her and be loved by her.... get to know about My Life With Gee at
http://blog.dankim.com/life-with-gee
The Scoot—click to find out more