Triple Backup on the oceangoing cruiser

[newt]

I am going to open a can of worms- What if once we decided was is essential for cruising that we established a triple redundancy for it on our boats? Take fresh water for example-
First line- foot pumped out of boat tank.
2nd line-second tank that can be hand pumped (involves buying a hand pump and extra)
3rd line- Water jugs that are chlorinated and sealed for emergency use.

Too much? Perhaps, but I am seriously thinking along these lines for propulsion, navigation and basic necessities of life before I sail over the horizon. In order not to hijack another thread, I will start a new one....

Navigation
First line GPS with charts
2nd Line- DR with fixes
3rd Line Sextant and Celestial Navigation

A key virtue (at least to me) is that I would have to be competent in each system before I started bluewater work. And it seems that I would always have the security of a backup.
Perhaps this violates the KISS principle, but it would most certainly cause me to prepare for the unexpected breakdowns. They say that cruising in merely repairs in exotic locations. If I have triple backup, I might be able to make those repairs in more mundane (and cheaper) ports.

[CharlieJ]

Interesting thoughts.

On the water. We have two totally separate tanks, which I think of as the minimum. One tank alone is simply asking for problems. They operate with a foot pump for which we carry a rebuild kit. The after tank can also be accessed by disconnecting a hose and gravity feeding water into a jug.

We also carry 5 to 8 gallons of water in half and one gallon jugs, which Laura uses to trim the boat as needed and as supplies dwindle.

We also have the boat set up for sheet to tiller steering and we have a tiller pilot. I am in the process of building a vane system, so we will then have four methods of steering- SST, tillerpilot, vane and lastly, by hand. Steering a sailboat by hand on passage in the open ocean has GOT to be one of the most boring (and tiring) things a person can do, other than work at a desk :D

[Godot]

I think triple redundancy for critical systems is a really good idea....

Gettin' rid of unwanted water....

1. Electric Bilge Pump
2. Manual Bilge Pump
3. Scared sailor with a bucket.

[Manannan]

 Yes, and one of the three never fail.... ;)

[newt]

Ha ha very funny. I won't tell you about my launch of  a ancient catalina without her thru hulls secured...and no working bilge pump.
Lets just say that the backups should allow you to continue your cruise without spending all your time performing the backup. How bout for bilge water:
1. electric pump
2. manual in cabin pump - high volume
3. cockpit pump- just in case you have visually navigate too, or the cabin fills with water.
BTW- Lynn and Larry have an interesting discussion on this- they are very much into battery powered things (such as a depth sounder!) to get greater reliability/backup.

[Godot]

Two manual pumps is probably a good idea.  Don't give up on the lowly bucket, though.  A more useful invention has yet to be found!

I wonder a little how I would do triple backup for propulsion.  Sails, motor, oars?  Except I HATE motors and consider them a necessary evil.  There is no way I would carry enough fuel to go a significant distance.

Maybe an extra sail?  Or some sort of pre-worked provision for a jerry rig?  (some sort of spar would need to be carried ... double as a spinnaker pole?)

Oars or Yuloh seams pretty wise, in any case.  Not that you are going to cross an ocean using them; but it will get you the last few miles.

[AdriftAtSea]

A  long scullling oar with a notch in the transom. :)

Two manual pumps is probably a good idea.  Don't give up on the lowly bucket, though.  A more useful invention has yet to be found!

I wonder a little how I would do triple backup for propulsion.  Sails, motor, oars?  Except I HATE motors and consider them a necessary evil.  There is no way I would carry enough fuel to go a significant distance.

Maybe an extra sail?  Or some sort of pre-worked provision for a jerry rig?  (some sort of spar would need to be carried ... double as a spinnaker pole?)

Oars or Yuloh seams pretty wise, in any case.  Not that you are going to cross an ocean using them; but it will get you the last few miles.

[Tim]

A  long scullling oar with a notch in the transom. :)

I am working on mine right now

[maxiSwede]

I am not sure about TRIPLE backups, especially on a SBLD kind of boat. That would add a monstruos amount of weght and stowage...

One thing I wouldn't go without though, is a spare mainsail, perhaps the old one...?

[Lynx]

Multiple use items would go a long way.

Sails (boom tent or traps can be used as a sail), motor, dinghy with motor.

Depth sound. spare line with knots tied and a rock

[Manannan]

triple back up on one mutliple use item : The Bucket  ;D

[newt]

This is where it gets fun- I have two buckets on my current boat- storage containers, emergency bilge, and a last line poop depository. For locomotion- sails, engine (even your dingy outboard), oars. I think the line should be drawn on the following premise: can you continue your voyage with just your backup working? If you can't  then it really isn't a backup, it is an emergency improvisation.
I agree totally with using some devices in multiple use- a bucket and oars being two good examples. Who hasn't used an oar to push out of the mud?
Speaking of emergencies, though- I think it would be common sense just to have one ERIB, and to test it frequently. Same with hand held VHF (unless that is your only radio) So emergency equipment probably does not need to be backed up, because the equipment in of itself is a last resort to your boat.
Steering?
1. Electric autopilot or windvane
2. Sheet to tiller (use multiuse line already on boat and two good pulleys with bungees that I can secure the main with if needed)
3. Self, with lashing the tiller as much as possible.

[Auspicious]

I have a vision of going out this weekend to see how far I can tow Auspicious behind the dinghy with oar power ...

[newt]

I had always imagined rowing from the cockpit with the dingy strapped to the boat (like I did my Cat 27) however if the shoe fits... ::)

[newt]

I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat. For a good starting point I would recommend their site.
Does anyone use a single oar with a notch to get them in and out of slips? I would be real interested in how this works. When there is no wind I use my oar like a canoe paddle, but I probably could learn a better way.

[Godot]

I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat.

Do you have the URL?  I'm not sure if I've been there (although it is hard to believe I haven't at least briefly stopped by a sailing site).

[AdriftAtSea]

probably: http://www.longpassages.org/

I was going through Long Passages web site today and guess what- they have an in depth discussion of redundancy on their boat.

Do you have the URL?  I'm not sure if I've been there (although it is hard to believe I haven't at least briefly stopped by a sailing site).