Anchor set-On sail, Solo

[AdriftAtSea]

The PS article that features the Manson Claw, Manson Supreme and Rocna, is pretty bogus.  The anchors weren't set properly, since they used really short scope, and the results are very misleading.  The article was talking about near 100 lb. anchors, and yet they were talking about dragging with less than 1000 lbs. of force.  Contrast that with the 33 lb. Rocna in the Sail magazine test, which held consistently with over 4500 lbs. of force against it. Something doesn't make sense... a bigger anchor should hold better, not worse by a factor of four.

[s/v Faith]

I know this is an old thread, but did anyone see the article P. Sailor did on extreme anchoring? It seems we have some new anchors that are pretty good.

  I bet that test is not too popular with the marketing folks.  The more expensive anchor finished behind both of the manson's.   :o

I think all 3 are good anchors.

[AdriftAtSea]

I bet that test is not too popular with the marketing folks.  The more expensive anchor finished behind both of the manson's.   :o

I think all 3 are good anchors.

s/v Faith—

The test was terribly biased and run under short scope rather than recommended scopes. Virtually worthless IMHO unless you are looking for a short scope anchor that can hold in unusual bottom condition.  Also, the test was done in bottom conditions most of us would try to avoid anchoring in. :)

[newt]

Adrift,
I would agree that sometimes PS has some unusable "tests" but their anchoring segments haven't been too out of line in my opinion. This current segment on extreme anchoring took place by a couple of sailors down in Chile, and while it may not hold dirt underneath water here, I find their corespondents out in the field often give useful information. Did you see the little article about a float above the anchor to keep it upright while anchoring? I wonder how useful that really is.
I try to look for trends in anchoring force, not necessary identical conditions in which I drop a hook. They clued me into a cheap Bruce a while back, and that was a good thing. But then again, maybe I use the slip in the marina too much to really know for sure.  ???

[AdriftAtSea]

Newt—

The problem I have with the most recent PS anchoring test, featuring "extreme" anchoring.... is the scope was very short, the anchors far heavier than would typically be used by most smaller sailboats, and the results very misleading—especially when compared to using the same design anchors properly.  The fact that they couldn't get an anchor to resist more than 1000 lbs. of load, when they were using 100 lb. anchors... says a lot about the poor technique, lack of scope, poor bottom conditions/makeup used in the test. 

In Sail Magazine's much more comprehensive test, using much more reasonable and typical rode scope and bottom conditions, some anchors a third the size of the ones used in PS magazine's test held to over 4500 lbs.

[Bubba the Pirate]

I recently saw a bow roller that had a hinge and the most forward part of it was hinged.  It appeared that you could unlock this hinged section and it would drop, thereby dropping the anchor.   Was I seeing things?   Has anyone used something similar? 

I was thinking your could rig a line, like your furling line, to pull the pin and drop your anchor.   Any thoughts?  I'll go looking again to see if I can find where I saw it. 

Todd

[AdriftAtSea]

Todd-

I think you're talking about a pivoting bow roller...I have one on my boat, and there's no pin to pull. In fact, I think a design with a pin to pull would be a problem, since the pin would be a weak point.  This is a photo of the ground tackle setup on the Pretty Gee. You can see the bow roller fairly well. It is a Lewmar pivoting bow roller, but they're made by several other companies as well.

[Bubba the Pirate]

Ahh, I found one online and the description says "used with a windlass to self launch."   That makes sense.   I'll have to work on something for us windlass-less.   

Thanks for the picture and the response! 


Todd

[AdriftAtSea]

Glad to help.... basically, it will self-launch the anchor whenever the rode is released.  It would work in a no-windlass installation just as well.

[Pixie Dust]

Single handing can have its challenges and you definitely want/need a good nights sleep which comes from trusting your anchor and technique.  On small boats, a mix of chain and line for your rode will give you bottom hugging with the chain, less risk of cutting the line on corals or rocks and lighter weight in the bow with the line for additional rode.  It is also easier to weigh anchor since lots of chain can be a "load" (pun intended) to drag in if you are personally the windlass.  I have 30' of chain with lots of line attached.  I could probably get by with only 15' of chain.  I have been very pleased with my Delta as my standard with a heavier Bruce to use if I need 2 anchors set.   
I always head into the wind, let the boat stop advancing, head to the bow, drop about 3-1 scope and just let it snug a little by hand or cleat, then let out anywhere from 5-1 to 10-1 depending on conditions, forecast, gut feeling and room available in the anchorage.   I let the boat settle down a little, then back down on the line.    So far so good.  I still have spent many a night awake in bad blows, but Pixie never moved.   Take your time, listen to your instincts.  If you do not feel good about your anchor setting, there is nothing wrong with a repeat performance for the anchorage.   :D

[newt]

I was reading last night in "The seaworthy Offshore Sailboat" by Vigor how he sets the anchor from the stern while sailing, digs in the anchor using the sails. Once the boat is stopped he secures the anchor rode to the front of the boat. The wind  then turns around the boat. Sounds like what I do, only your not up monkeying around at the pulpit solo with your autopilot on (could be dangerous) esp. at midnight. (no dear, I really didn't do that  ::))
I think I will give it a try next time.

[LooseMoose]

The method for setting an anchor which has pretty much worked drag free for twenty five years of full time cruising and living aboard is simply to let the prevailing breeze do the work...The secret is simply not to be in a hurry!

When we sail into an anchorage (we almost always anchor under sail) we simply sail to where we want to be and then drop the jib (leaving the main up) and simply walk forward while the boat is dead in the water (no need to run!) and slowly let out the anchor and chain slowly till we have a 5/1 scope.

The next part of the drill is simply to put on the coffee and while the coffee is brewing that gives us an unhurried space to drop and furl the main. Throw on the sail cover and keep an eye out to make sure we are not going walkies...

By the time we have had our cup of coffee its then time to don the mask and snorkel and take an up close and personal look at the anchor which by this time ( all of a half hour) will be more or less dug in.Room permitting we then let out so more chain as its not doing us any good in the chain locker...

Having spent hundreds of hours observing anchors underwater while diving it is our experience that most people who try and set their anchors are not really setting them and in a lot of cases keeping the anchors from setting properly. We find that the gentle action of the boat, water and wind are uch more effective at setting the anchor than however many HP you have.

But the real trick is simply not being in a hurry and doing everything in the process SLOW ...and let the boat do the work.

It always amazes us watching people ( especially bare boaters) come into an anchorage at speed dropping the anchor while doing 3-4 knots while doing all sorts of crazed deck work with much yelling and panic then see them back down on their anchor at full throttle and drag ...

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/

[Tim]

There are some of us that sail in water where the temperature is such that if one was to "don the mask and snorkel" and "observing anchors underwater" would mean you become the anchor ;)

[mrb]

LooseMoose has made one point that so far has, in my interpretation of posts, not been made yet.
When we sail into an anchorage (we almost always anchor under sail) we simply sail to where we want to be and then drop the jib (leaving the main up) and simply walk forward while the boat is dead in the water (no need to run!) and slowly let out the anchor and chain slowly till we have a 5/1 scope.

Throwing anchors is one part of the receipt to a fowled anchor.

As far as the magazine articles appeared to me that in want of material to fill a page or two between ads the editors go for anything the writer writes so long as it is: 1 complicates a simple procedure and: 2 puts the need for their advertises item in the need to have list.

As in all things practice is essential. Take time to drop a lunch hook now and then. Use old fashion techniques to check if you are drifting, take two or three sights on stationary objects then check later.  At night I check gps coordinates along with depth sounding and check a few times for what should be no change, taking tide and wind direction into account.




and the grateful man just enjoys what he is given

[Amgine]

Well, I haven't set anchor often under sail only. The times I have I didn't drop the hook while flying; my hardware can take the strain, but it's unnecessary work hardening and isn't any more likely to work than coming to a stop and letting the gear out more slowly.

The last time I did this I'd run out of fuel and towed the boat a few miles by rowing the dinghy because it was dead calm. I was fried crispy, so when we got into the bay I got the anchor into the dinghy, rowed the full length of the rode out to where I wanted it, and dropped it over the side. Went back aboard and shortened up only a little bit - probably 10:1. With no current or breeze all night to speak of I wasn't too surprised that it came up pretty easy the next morning.

The engine was out of the boat when I wanted to go off for a weekend. So I sailed out of the marina (specifically a no-no) and spent a few nights on the hook, doing the shoot up into wind or current, drop the hook and lay it out drifting back, then using the sails to somehow put a little strain on the line. I got yelled at sailing back into the marina, but I said I was having motor problems...

When I wrapped the dinghy painter while trying to set the anchor I just rehoisted the jib for a little while, and it was well and truly set after I finally managed to finish cutting the rope away a couple days later. The water was just too cold to do more than a few minutes in the water at a shot, despite being mid-July.

[newt]

Loose Moose, you do bring insight into this old thread. I would want to know how often you have to reposition your anchor after you dive on it- In other words, how often is the anchor not dug in correctly after you have gently allowed it to set. Your method certainly sounds alot safer. I was taught in the ASA courses that anchors needed a good strong pull to dig in- and when I went to not using the motor, I assumed that pull would have to come from the inertia of the moving sailboat.
But you say you can do it with the static pull of the main? Sounds great!
BTW- whats your displacement on your boat?

[AdriftAtSea]

I don't think an anchor will generally set properly without the boat pulling on it some... either backwinding the sails or backing down using the engine.  This is particularly true if the bottom is hard mud, hard sand or clay.  Some anchors, like the CQR, will probably set better if they're allowed to settle on the bottom, especially if it is a softer bottom, than if you back down immediately on them—but most anchors will NOT set IMHO, unless you set them.

[Bluenose]

Anchoring under sail is on my to-learn list for this summer. So I am taking notes like crazy during this thread.

Thanks everyone for sharing you insight.

Cheers, Bill

[thistlecap]

Anchoring Under Sail Singlehanded

After checking the weather for prevailing wind direction and shifts, and the chart for hazards and bottom characteristics, assuming you have no local knowledge, sail around the anchorage under full sail---full sail because if you don't like what you see or run into a problem, you have maximum control for making an exit.  Once back into open water, prepare for anchoring.  Chain will rarely jam in the locker, but lines tangle and kink, so chain and line rodes should be flaked out on the side deck with enough free to run to meet your 5:1 scope or better.  Leave the anchor secured or make off the rode until ready to set so there cannot be an accidental run-out of the ground tackle. 

Beginners are taught to come dead into the eye of the wind to set the anchor, but that puts you in irons with no control.  A better approach is to get downwind of your spot and return upwind on a fine close reach with the sheets run free.  If at any time you don't feel things are as you like, simply trim and keep going for another approach.  As to whether you carry the jib, it depends on three things---(1) your competence and confidence as a sailor, (2) how handy the boat is in tacks, and (3) how quickly she will accelerate and regain steerage.  If you're not 100% confident with all three, carry the jib for maximum control.  If you decide you need to lose headway more quickly, pull the weather jib sheet to back the jib as you turn a bit more into the wind.  With the crossed controls, the boat will stall and quickly stop.

Walk forward and lower the anchor to the bottom as the boat begins to fall off or gather sternway, being careful not to dump the chain on top the anchor, which may foul it.  Feed rode as the boat wants it until the rode enters the water at a 45% or less angle.  Jig the line or drop the stopper on the chain.  If the rode comes up taught and slowly droops from its own weight, the anchor has bit.  If the rode alternately comes taught and falls slack, it is dragging.  If it is, there are two options---pay out more scope or weigh anchor, sheet the sails and make a new approach while checking the anchor to make sure it hasn't fouled.  It is thankfully not an every day occurrence, but an anchor that has picked up a beer can, stick, crab pot, or taken a length of chain between the shank and flukes will never set.
Once it has set, pay out the rest of the rode for the needed scope, and make fast.  As the boat drifts back, watch things abeam of you for the best indication of motion.  When the boat fetches up on the rode again, you'll have conformation of whether it's set or not.

If your boat tends to sail on its anchor, while waiting for the boat to drift back on its rode, slacken the halyard just a couple feet.  That will take all drive out of the sails, and still have them ready for immediate use if needed.  As this point, as LooseMoose suggested, put the coffee pot on and stow and cover the sails.  As for diving on the anchor, I've only done that once in 50 years just to see what the fuss was about.  Most of the time I sail in water I have no intention of swimming in unless a liferaft is involved.  What you do want to do is set up at least two anchor bearings that will be visible at night.  Write the bearings down so when the wind picks up at 0300, you don't have to try remembering what the numbers were.

There's no advantage to trying to set an anchor with power, contrary to popular opinion.  I've done it both ways myself and with students, and if anything, found the use of power to complicate the process and induce other problems. The issue is scope.  The more scope, the greater the holding power.  Anchors are designed to bite and dig with a horizontal strain.  The shorter the scope and more vertical the load, and more the anchors power has been compromised.  Prove it for yourself.  The next time you see someone having trouble setting an anchor, I guarantee they're trying to set it with power.  An anchor is like a crab pot--- working best if given some soak time to do its own thing.

[thistlecap]

Weighing Anchor Under Sail

The first question is what tack do you need to leave the anchorage on to avoid shoals or other vessels.  Having a crewman on the foredeck helps, but doing this singlehanded is not an issue after you've done it a few times and worked out the kinks for yourself.  This of course means you want to practice in an open anchorage the first few times.

Set both main and jib.  The mainsheet generally has enough friction to not fully luff the sail and will cause it to start sailing.  Pull full slack into the sheet and watch that it can't foul on anything.  Secure the helm amidships so headway doesn't drive the boat off a heading upwind.   In light air, simply winch or pull the boat to the anchor until you're on short stay (the rode is almost straight up and down), but the anchor hasn't been broken out.  The bow will swing back and forth through the wind.  When the wind is on the tack you want, break the anchor out and raise it the depth of the keel and make fast.  If at any time the boat falls back on the wrong tack, simply lower the anchor and start again, but if the helm has been centered, once it's on one tack, it will usually stay there.

Walk back to the cockpit, pull the weather jib sheet to back the jib and drive the boat further onto the desired tack, slip the lanyard off the end of the tiller or unlock the wheel, sheet the jib first and then the main, and you're off.  Trim not to the trim point, but just enough for headway and steerage, generally no more than a knot to a knot and a half.  Gaining too much speed will drive the anchor up under the boat.  Leaving the anchor deep enough to clear the forefoot of the boat does several things: it saves a lot of time needed to weigh and secure the anchor, it starts the process of washing the anchor, and it leaves it immediately available to reset if needed.  However, you want the anchor no deeper than the draft of the boat so it doesn't set in the bottom accidentally or pick up the rode of a nearby vessel you're passing.  When maneuvering in an anchorage, always cross an anchored vessel's stern.  Never cross its bow unless you're really well clear.  Once in open water, you can let the sheets run and clean the anchor and ship it at leisure.

If the wind has been blowing during the night, or I've been in a given location a couple days, my routine before getting underway is to come on deck and pull the boat up to the anchor and break it out.  If it's set too deep to break out easily, just leave it on short stay.  The motion of the boat will gradually work the anchor to the surface without all the anchorage antics of powering back and forth, over the anchor and around in circles.  Let Mother Nature do the work.  I continue on with my morning shave, dressing, breakfast and coffee as I keep a watch out the port.  If I see the bow start to fall off, I know the work has been done for me.  I increase scope enough to gently set the anchor, knowing when I'm ready to go, so is the anchor. 

If the wind is too strong to pull the boat to the anchor, set sail.  Lead the bitter end or a bight of the rode to the cockpit (again assuming we're single handing).  Quickly dump a bunch of extra rode overboard.  If we want to leave on the starboard tack, pull the starboard jib sheet to back the jib and push the tiller to leeward (port).  The jib will swing the bow out of the wind, and the rudder will back the stern to starboard, putting us solidly on starboard tack.  Center the helm and trim the main just enough for headway and steerage.  You don't need to mess with winching at this point.  Just grab the mainsheet purchase and pull the boom in enough to get some air in the sail.  We sail until we see the rode start to pull the bow up into wind, and we tack.  On the port tack, we begin to take slack in slowly as we sail upwind, but we continue past the anchor, even easing rode again if needed, and then tack again when we know we can approach the anchor on a close reach.  Keeping our speed under control for bare steerage, we approach to sail over the anchor.  When  approaching short stay, we let the sheets run, secure the helm amidships, walk forward and haul the anchor to the depth of the keel and make fast.  If the boat has come to the wind any, simple pull the jib to weather and drive the bow off.  Walk back, slip the lanyard off the tiller, trim enough for steerage, and a new day has begun.

If anchored on all chain, there's no help but to winch the anchor up.  Break it out on the proper tack and back the jib to weather.  Everything else is the same.