The obsession with speed - a Rant

[Captain Smollett]

I thought you (and one or two others ...) MIGHT like that one!

;D

[OptiMystic]

I always find this an interesting topic because there is a twist to it for little boats like mine (N17). It can plane.  It takes a fair amount of wind or auxilary power. The latter point is one I have given a lot of consideration to. I know of a couple of N17 owners that have enough of a motor to plane like a little speedboat; not blazing fast, but >10 kts. I think the primary use for it is getting to good sailing water faster in good conditions, not pounding the snot out of the boat through big waves trying to get away from heavy weather. I went with a motor that just does hull speed, so my info is second hand. I have planed briefly under sail and the way it handles I think it would be very dicey in gusty winds or big waves. But this is a boat that shouldn't be out too far. Anyway, if you are comparing 6 kts to 12 it's a different discussion.

[Captain Smollett]

On the issue of fast boats better avoiding bad weather (specifically, tropical cyclones), I found this today.

If a ship has at least 20 knots, at her disposal and shapes a course that will take her most rapidly away from the storm before the wind has increased above the point at which her movement becomes restricted, it is seldom that she will come to any harm.

From this page:

http://thenauticalsite.com/nauticalnotes/met/mymet-lesson10-trs.htm

It makes me wonder if the author is saying that 20 knots is some sort of 'average needed' speed to outmaneuver such systems.

If so, a monohull with 8 kt hullspeed has no practical advantage over one with a 6 kt hull speed.  Both are at luck's mercy given (a) size of storms and (b) errors in track prediction even if state of the art data is available.

(Typed this from the safety and comfort of shore as Hurricane Arthur churns just off Cape Fear and nominally headed this way).

[Frank]

This "kinda" fits into this disscussion: I just came back from Moosehead lake. There is a restored 100yr old (this year!) 115 ft x 28 ft x 7.5 ft x 200ton classic old style "Gadsby era" passenger/frieght boat that they now use for tours. It is a displacement hull and has 2-300 hp diesels. Thats 600HP for 200tons! It moves along at 8.5 knots @ 1250 RPM!!!  Barely a wake!! It is SO beautiful and SO efficient!! Why....WHY can't designers today make beautiful boats with a "soul" that are timelessly pleasing to the eye AND extremely efficient? They did 100 yrs ago!!  So much for progress!!

[Travelnik]

It makes me wonder if the author is saying that 20 knots is some sort of 'average needed' speed to outmaneuver such systems.

It sounds like he's saying that 20 knots is a minimum, not average. That would keep most sailboats out of the equation!

I'd rather have a boat that I could trust to survive the storm, strap myself in, and ride the storm out. I do think I have the boat, but I hope I don't have to find out how she handles the eye of a hurricane. (She would undoubtedly handle it. I don't know how I'd feel afterward!)

It is a displacement hull and has 2-300 hp diesels. Thats 600HP for 200tons!

I had a friend that had 2-300 hp V-6 outboards on his 16' bass boat. That's 600 hp for 1200 lbs. (+/-).
He said that fishermen needed the extra speed to stay out longer, and hopefully catch the biggest fish before the tournament ended.

$35,000+ for that boat, and no way to ever win enough tournament money to pay for it!

[Captain Smollett]

It sounds like he's saying that 20 knots is a minimum, not average.

Ooops, sorry.  I did not word that very well.  By "average needed" I did mean an 'average minimum,' meaning "for the average storm, a minimum speed needed...."  I worded it clumsily for sure.

That would keep most sailboats out of the equation!

Even most 'fast' ones.   ;)

I'd rather have a boat that I could trust to survive the storm, strap myself in, and ride the storm out. I do think I have the boat, but I hope I don't have to find out how she handles the eye of a hurricane. (She would undoubtedly handle it. I don't know how I'd feel afterward!)

Indeed.  Well said.

I had a friend that had 2-300 hp V-6 outboards on his 16' bass boat. That's 600 hp for 1200 lbs. (+/-).
He said that fishermen needed the extra speed to stay out longer, and hopefully catch the biggest fish before the tournament ended.

:o :o

Just wow.

Was reading the other day about some guys that fish out of Beaufort...regular guys with smallish boats (all were in the 20-25 ft range).  Most had twin outboards.  Most were talking in the ballpark of 100 gallons to run to the stream and back, and that's not the fuel needed on site.

I thought..."Wow, about $400 for one day of fishing."  Makes me appreciate sailing that much more.   ;)

[CharlieJ]

Folks- I was aboard the USS Saratoga when we ducked UNDER a hurricane in the Atlantic- She stuffed her bow a couple times!! And that bow is 90 feet up!!

I'll pass on doing it in ANYTHING smaller, thank you very much!!

[Crazer]

Folks- I was aboard the USS Saratoga when we ducked UNDER a hurricane in the Atlantic- She stuffed her bow a couple times!! And that bow is 90 feet up!!

I'll pass on doing it in ANYTHING smaller, thank you very much!!

Here's a vid of Kitty Hawk doing the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1graEzmeRU

There's an interesting comment below regarding the wave height, suggesting that the height need only be 20-25 ft to come over the bow of a carrier. Who knows if it's true, but the guy sounds knowledgeable.

[CharlieJ]

Here's a vid of Kitty Hawk doing the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1graEzmeRU

There's an interesting comment below regarding the wave height, suggesting that the height need only be 20-25 ft to come over the bow of a carrier. Who knows if it's true, but the guy sounds knowledgeable.

That's probably true, but the ones we were in were more than 30 feet, I assure you. We weren't in the storm itself, but in the left over seas.

But I did stick the top rail of the bow pulpit on Tehani through two waves in Santa Rosa Sound.The waves were not all that huge, just quite close together and she didn't have time to rise before she hit the troughs. This was right at a bridge, with steep, close together seas.

Was NOT a fun day :o  :'(  :o

[w00dy]

Thanks Capn. S for another interesting topic.

I have owned several boats in the "not fast" category. Although I love the exhilaration of sailing speed to be found in the smaller board-boats and catamarans I have sailed, when it came time pick boats for cruising, I have repeatedly chosen to forgo the more modern, "performance oriented" designs in favor of boats with robust construction, traditional seakeeping characteristics, and arguably more comfortable motion. Because we have lived aboard full time, we appreciate the security of design choices like encapsulated ballast, solid laminate hulls, heavy bulkheading/scantlings, lower aspect rigs, etc. These are design choices that aren't often found in the faster, more modern boats, which are often optimized for racing, chartering, and build economy.

As painful as it is to hear our boat called a "Wet-Snail" by snooty racers, I am comforted by knowing that our keel will never suddenly fall off, our rudder will not be smashed/bent by running aground, and when it gets nasty, she will take care of herself in a way that the faster boats could not. To paraphrase John Letcher, she may be an embarrasment when racing round the bouys, inshore, but all alone out on the ocean, she will be a joy to sail, for that is what she was built for.

[jotruk]

I had the pleasure (tongue in cheek) of riding a frigate in the edge of a hurricane. also went around the tip of south American on it and watched seas as high as our flight deck and lost our motor whale boat in that storm. don't want to do it again.