Carribean Bare boat Company

[newt]

This is a branch of the Thread on ASA cert- coastal cruising. Norm has volunteered to share his knowledge about the charter companies down south, and help me with my time spend down there so I don't reinvent the wheel when cruising in the Caribbean.
Norm- what if I were to buy a stout 30 footer (like a Baba 30 or a Shannon 28) use it as I want to go cruising (Passagemaking, going where I want)  and leave it with someone the rest of the year? Who would you trust with your classic beauty? I want someone who won't rent it out to a disaster, yet if the right person comes along... Maybe make it a captain only boat...
What do you (and anyone else who has experience with this) think?

I have meet some people up in the Cheaspeake area that I would trust, but as you said hauling it back and forth a few times a year would be a real hassle. :-\

[Norm]

Oh Boy!  What a question.

The Caribbean makes a good deal of its income from Yachts so there are many, many good yards that are well run and fair.  The best places are the BVI (Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbour and Nanny Cay Marina/Boat Yard), St Martin (any place), Antigua (Jolly Harbour or Hugh Bailey in Falmouth), and Trinidad (Peter Peake).  They are competitive with US yards or a bit cheaper.  I have been to good yards in Puerto Rico, St Croix, Barbados, and Grenada.  So much depends on how you hit it off with the owner and the other boat owners.  I don't know about Guadeloupe.  It is stunning and a huge yachting center but it is all in French.  Je ne parle pas...

A major concern is also the cost of transporting yourself to and from your boat.  PR is cheap, Trini is expensive.  St Martin is duty-free and has everything you would expect from a blend of North American and European yachting cultures.  The airfares to SXM are not burdensome.  (Yeah, that's a relative term.)

Storing the boat is safest when the mast is down and the cradle is underwriter approved for hurricanes.  I think that a cover to shield the boat from sun and rain are necessary.  One does not see much shrink wrap (business opportunity?).

Idea:  get your boat and sail to Fajardo, Puerto Rico as your first stop.  Work your way upwind to Antigua (200 nm straight into the 20 knot wind and 1 knot current), stopping along the way to check things out.

Then slide on a stunning beam reach Antigua to Barbados, check in with Willie at Shallow Draft.  (Bring US dollars).  Check out Barbados.  Reach over to Trinidad, then back to Grenada and St Lucia.

Make a decision in St Lucia.  Except for a beat to Barbados, the yard you choose will be within a 200 nm reach or run.

I have a rate sheet from Nanny Cay in Tortola, BVI:
Summer wet is $0.50/ft/day, min 35 ft  (May 1 - Oct 31)  You'll still to haul and paint, etc.
Dry storage is $14/ft/mo boat plus $1.50/ft/mo mast out plus $10/ft haul-launch plus $3/ft wash

The magazine All At Sea is a good resource for the Northern regions.  The newspaper, Caribbean Compass covers the Southern regions.  Both are on line and full of advertisements.

I guess, I would pick Fajardo, PR simply because it is so easy to visit the boat and ship things in or out.  Not very romantic but certainly practical.

Nice plan.  I ought to take my own advice, eh?

Norman

[Norm]

Chartering your boat in the Caribbean:

There are almost no small boats for charter through any of the brokers or companies I know.  The economics of the business lean towards 40 footers as being the small sizes!

If you were to try something it might work if you found a good take-care-of-the-boat company (yacht managers) who will undertake your project.  Then, I'd try to set up charters with people who are interested in a month long charter.  They are going to be sailors.

Chartering is hard on boats.  The new Beneteaus, Jeanneaus, and Bavarias are the way they are for a reason.  Caribbean chartering is not about sailing.  It is about beach bars.  In Maine, sail boats are sought after and Caribbean style yachts are shunned.  Different cultures.

The boats you cite are superb for a couple to cruise inexpensively through a beautiful place.  I looked the boats up on Yachtworld dot com.  Good boat choices for exploring harbours without beach bars!

Norman

[Auspicious]

If the newly legislated harbor charges in the BVI are implemented (two weeks away) then the BVI will not be a consideration for visiting much less basing yourself. The Caribbean charter world may literally be about to change.

I like the PR idea.

The Chesapeake is a different but wonderful cruising ground. I'm still in the Caribbean two or three times a year, but I love sailing on my home waters.

[newt]

I understand what you are saying and agree- I was never much of a beach bar person anyway. The idea about only chartering for about a month or so...interesting. Now I need to find a like minded marina operator. I had though PR would be good a long time ago, but I have only found one place there that even bareboats anything. I have found some good people in Fort Myers area- lets see how far is that? :D

Any leads for PR? I can cruise the spanish VI from there.

[Norm]

Yes, it will get more expensive to sail in the BVI.  I wonder if the regulations actually will work and last.  The costs seem high.  I wonder if the pricing was done carefully?  What are the charter companies and boat yards saying?

The real problem in the territory is pollution caused by yachts and poor engineering ashore.  There are no holding tank rules and certainly no place to pump out of you chose to use a holding tank.  This fact has caused reefs to deteriorate and many harbors are unsafe for swimming.

In the USVI the holding tank regulations are enforced.  The water is much cleaner, the reefs healthy.

I was on charter with the BVI governor last winter and we talked about this subject.  I am an economist and he is a politician.  The discussion was lively and friendly.  

My hope is that the BVI install many holding tank pump out facilities and also provide pump out boats.  If so, the clean water will be worthwhile.  The Caribbean islands have to face up pollution and yachts have to face up to the cost of mitigation.

One of my practices as a skipper is to take my clients to bays and harbors that are clean.  And... warn them about harbors that are not.  For the week long charter, the costs are probably OK.  For cruisers, not so.  

As it is, one sees few cruisers in the BVI compared to the rest of the Caribbean.  Chartering is king down there.  In the cruiser filled harbors of St Martin, Antigua, St Barts, and Grenada (to name a few) swimming is not healthy!  I suspect that many islands will follow suit.

The charter companies and boat yards have a lot of political juice.  I will track this topic through "channels."  

More to follow.
Norman

[Norm]

Long term charters are a new idea in that people have been talking about it for a while but doing little.  The big bucks are elsewhere.  A few years ago, I was one of the pioneers in taking a racing boat (Rumor) to the Caribbean for regatta charter only.  We didn't make any money, had fun, and got to be the "bleeding edge."  The guys that followed charge more than we did and are making money.  Darn, wish I had thought of that. 

Long term charters?  May be similar.  Suppose, for example, you are retired and like to sail, want to sail the Caribbean, but don't want to buy a boat and position it in the Caribbean....

It would be pretty nice to be able to pick up a long term charter, cruise for the season, and go home.  What is that worth?  Is a Baba 30 the right boat?

One wonders... doesn't one?

Market research required... I wonder if cubemonkey will let me take Averisera?

More to follow.
Norman

[Auspicious]

I was on charter with the BVI governor last winter and we talked about this subject.  I am an economist and he is a politician.  The discussion was lively and friendly. 

So the harbor charges are your fault? <grin>

If implemented as currently crafted, the cruisers will disappear completely and the charter industry will evaporate (all in my opinion).

[Norm]

"my fault" may actually be correct, though I suspect some politico will take credit if successful and I might get the blame if a failure.  That is if anyone actually recalls me saying anything about it.  More likely.

I doubt that the charter biz will go from the BVI.  Facilities are there and the sailing is mind-numbingly simple.  No other place has that combination.

More to follow!
Norman