Scoot Start

[CapnK]

I like the idea of Beaufort as a start point a lot, but thought a few minutes ago that maybe we should also look at the Wrightsville Bch. area as well, seeing if it might make a better jump-off point.

Thoughts, tossing it out there for consideration: I am not positive of how this would affect things, but leaving from Beaufort we would be starting to the immediate south side of a shoal area which has a current flowing north over it... Leaving from Masonboro Inlet, we would leave the shoals to southward and ideally windward in a SW'erly wind of us, and many sea miles north to the next Cape/shoal area, up current. It also effectively doubles the distance to Cape Hatteras, gives a 1-Cape cushion there. ;)

Of course, ideally everyone will blast off and be 100 miles out in 24 hours. :)

But if someone has a problem before getting to or crossing the Gulf Stream, well, we oughta maybe talk about those possibilities...

What do y'all think?

Below linked is an image which shows the GS this year. You can look and see the effect the shoals have on current. Eddies, also...

April 30, 2008, 3 image composite

[Captain Smollett]

I'll bite...if you are thinking moving the Start south, why not then just go for Cape Fear and thus avoid Frying Pan Shoals?

I get what you mean with the SW dominant wind putting FP to windward of Masonboro, but the wind rose in the pilot charts have significant percentages all around the rose....

Just thinkin' out loud, again - not disagreeing with Masonboro as a good option.

[CapnK]

1) Part of it is just the thought that though Beaufort seems great, maybe we should have some discussion and research to be sure of that...

2) Thinking in huge generalities, & like a kayaker/surfer. :)

3) And thinking more in terms of currents, than winds.

From the mouth of the Cape Fear, the shoals would be - as they are at B-fort - directly/immediately down-current. Starting from Mboro, the shoals would be up-current. Although the currents here do not uniformly travel SW->NE, anything drifting out there does trend that way.

In a long-shore environment (waves running down the coast from one direction), surfers learn that tucking up next to the down-current side of a jetty or even just a pier slows, and sometimes even *reverses* the current. You jump in there, your paddle out is always going to be a _lot_ easier and quicker. A similar effect happening with Frying Pan would seem to be borne out by the linked current imagery.

And - just thinkin' out loud, too... :)

[Joe Pyrat]

You could start from Key West.  The first event could be doin' the Duval Crawl.   ;D

Seriously, interesting idea, maybe I'll give it a try.  If you are looking for a less well traveled place, Dominica might be interesting, although it's status may have changed following the Pirates of the Caribbean movie filmed there.

[newt]

What if we rafted up in Biscayne Bay, had a big party and decided where to go at the spur of the moment, and then raced through the Bahamas all with yellow flags tied up (quarantined) till we got to wherever poor port we decided to pick on. Now that would be a race to remember. With any luck we could start an international incident. :D
In all reality, there are some nice places to hole up in the bay, and we could all cross the gulf stream in a 24 hour sail, then fan out to the quickest way to San Salvador. I would feel better knowing everyone got across the stream. You crossed about here Lynx, what do you think?

[Auspicious]

I really like the idea of a start in Beaufort, or somewhere similarly North, for a small boat adventure. All those (relatively) huge boats who spend weeks slinking down the ICW to avoid the ocean and then darting across to the Bahamas from places like Lake Worth can watch a small fleet of small boats take a more sensible course.

But that's just me.

sail fast, dave

[Captain Smollett]

I like the idea of Beaufort (or nearby) also, because I like the idea of a 600-ish nm "challenge" rather than a "relatively simple" crossing of 12-24 hours.

The point of Scooting for me if I get to participate is to prepare myself and my boat for passage making.

And Beaufort is a such a cool place...I was at Ft. Macon yesterday and was eyeballing Lookout Bight on the horizon, just imagining the "Scoot Start."   ;D

[Godot]

While I recognize that some folks might be looking for more of a pleasure cruise, for me the challenge is the important thing.  I care about the trip, not the destination (although I am looking forward to that).  Sailing to Bahamas in company is nice; but is really not enough for me.  An offshore test of myself, my boat, and my preparation.  That's the ticket!  Having other Scooters there at the start and finish either about to embark, or having just completed an identical trip is part of the fun.  Getting there the easiest, safest way possible ... well, maybe I'm a bit of a masochist.

Although my wife and my insurance agent would probably prefer I take the shorter hop from key west.  Oh, well.  They can't have everything.

[Godot]

BTW, if a bunch of folks want to leave from key west or wherever, while I don't think it really fits in to the framework of the Scoot, it would certainly be a reasonable trip for someone else to put together.  Do it the same time with the same destination if you want.  I just think our goals would be a little different.

[AdriftAtSea]

I agree.... no point in doing the scoot if the scoot isn't a reasonably decent challenge.

While I recognize that some folks might be looking for more of a pleasure cruise, for me the challenge is the important thing.  I care about the trip, not the destination (although I am looking forward to that).  Sailing to Bahamas in company is nice; but is really not enough for me.  An offshore test of myself, my boat, and my preparation.  That's the ticket!  Having other Scooters there at the start and finish either about to embark, or having just completed an identical trip is part of the fun.  Getting there the easiest, safest way possible ... well, maybe I'm a bit of a masochist.

Although my wife and my insurance agent would probably prefer I take the shorter hop from key west.  Oh, well.  They can't have everything.

[Lynx]

All of these are doable and are being done every season. I will not be doing the Scoot. I will stay out of the discussion.

[newt]

Fair enough. I stand rebuked. I will be ready for the gulf stream and 600 miles of ocean, or I won't be scooting. The nice thing about this race is I can tell fellow sailfarers I ain't going if I feel conditions are not right, or if I think I rather sail to Grand Bahama and lay on the beach. (Or for that matter, get a suntan on the deck of my boat in the sound) Ambition is a wonderful thing isn't. ;)

[Godot]

Fair enough. I stand rebuked. I will be ready for the gulf stream and 600 miles of ocean, or I won't be scooting. The nice thing about this race is I can tell fellow sailfarers I ain't going if I feel conditions are not right, or if I think I rather sail to Grand Bahama and lay on the beach. (Or for that matter, get a suntan on the deck of my boat in the sound) Ambition is a wonderful thing isn't. ;)

Oh, my.  I hope I'm not coming across as trying to tell you the right way to do things.  That isn't my intent.  Leaving from south Florida is just as valid a trip, and in its' own way a challenge, as what we are planning here.  It's just not what I/we are interested in.

And the more I think of it, the idea of having a bunch more Sailfarers who either don't feel up to The Scoot or don't have time, or simply don't wish to do it for any reason what-so-ever, take the southern route and meet us there ... well, that sounds like a heck of a time.  I would like to encourage such a trip.

And, btw, this discussion is open to everyone.  Please contribute if you would like.  In the end, those who participate are going to do what they want anyhow.  In the meantime speak up if you feel so inclined.  The basic framework to the Scoot is in place, but the details are still evolving.

Oh, and one last thing ... for those of us participating in the main event, the routing is the decision and responsibility of the skipper.  If you prefer to scoot down the coast all the way to Florida and then jump across, that is you prerogative.  Your sets of challenges will be very different, for certain.  You will likely burn a lot of gas (I hope to burn none once at the "start line") and take a generally longer time getting there.  BUT, if that is the way you want to do it, that is your right.  Don't take anything I (or Kurt, or anyone else) say as being a directive on how to manage your trip.  We're going to be bouncing around inside our own Clorox bottles ... we'll have enough to handle without wondering which route YOU took to the Bahamas.

[newt]

Adam,
Thank you for the nice way to say that we disagree on route. I plan on just using my sail wherever  I go till I get to the finish line. I will probably be in a larger boat and leave a day behind everyone else, so I can communicate by VHF and keep track of anyone in effy condition.
More than anything, I am always thinking of contingencies. As this is the first ocean passage making for many, I wanted a way they could bail out easily. The other side, of course is the challenge. I agree with you it will make a great challenge, solo in a small sailboat.
I plan on solo also, but my craft will be in the 30 plus range. And 20 k displacement. I want to be able to pick someone up in a storm if needs be.
When I taught survival for many years, we also had a certain structure to our marathon cross desert marches.  An experienced person with the racehorses would lead the way. Then would come a few just trying to meet the challenge. Finally an experienced person would be in the rear, making sure none got left behind. The structure works with everyone succeeding, and few getting hurt.
Am I out of line thinking a similar structure may work here? Being a physician I guess it is breed into me to watch out for others. ;D

[Auspicious]

I already volunteered to head down early and ice down the beer.

That gives us a guy in front and a guy in back.

Don't fall too far behind, or the beer will be gone. <grin>

sail fast, dave

[CapnK]

Bear with me while I have some 'philosophiznesses'... ;)

"Challenge" has a different definition for different folks. My idea of a challenge for me and my boat lies closely along the lines of what Adam already wrote beautifully - a relatively long distance sail in deep waters far from shore...

But for someone with not a lot of experience sailing, or perhaps a less-capable boat for offshore work, or maybe even someone who's sailed and has a capable boat but who just hasn't ever spent more than 2 days away from the 'comforts of modern civilization', then for them, 'challenge' is going to be a whole different concept and reality...

Maybe for them challenge just involves getting themselves and their boat and most important, their mind and goals, to a place where they will be leaving their comfort zone behind, and doing something they might not ordinarily have done before...

So all that to say this:

No need for anyone to feel rebuked, IMO.

Or to not offer an opinion/thoughts/facts just because they might not be doing their own Scoot...

And if some folks far distant from our Scoot want to establish some sort of gathered Scoot for themselves, then by all means, Go For It!

I'd hope it would offer some good "limit-stretching" challenge to it's participants, like the Scoots which will begin off Beaufort will more than likely do for those of us there. I would also hope that that was tempered by an honest assessment of what the Scooters and their boats are capable of, when selecting a common goal for Scootin' to... :)

But the essential nature of Scooting is that it comes down to personal choice, and that is something none of us wants to control or be responsible for anyone other than ourselves, as far as I can tell.

So if you can't make it to Beaufort or if that's too far or whatever, then Scoot alone or with someone else, or several of them, if you want. Start planning a Scoot on your own wherever you are, share it here, and maybe you'll find someone close to you that is interested in sharing a time frame and destination for their Scoot with you...

[CapnK]

Thinking outside the box:

A "Scoot South" could leave from southern FL, destination San Salv/Eleuthera, but instead of going *through* the Bahamas, instead travel up and around the B's to the North, then back down the E side. Or south-around, even.

It could still be a long, offshore trip that way, even though initially departing from Lake Worth, Key West, or whatever...

Just some Food for Thought... :)

[newt]

It all sounds good. I look forward to sailing with you. You all sound like good people. Don't worry about my feelings-  I was told that this is what the Scoot means, but not in a bad way- just in a straightforward way. My perceptions were corrected. Thats not always bad. I have never sailed to NC, maybe its about time I did. I do want to start late however, as long as no one  is offended by my taking the end. I'll bring lots of supplies and listen carefully to the VHF, as to avoid the windless areas. ;D

[Bon]

I am really enjoying the attitude of encouragement and acceptance on this thread and on this board in general.  For me, leaving my comfort zone means taking possession of a 1970 Coronado 25, getting her rigged and sailing around the Potomac River and the Chez. It is wonderful, however, to read about all the things I have to look forward to and the challenges to be overcome..  Thanks. :)

[Lynx]

Please note that when the wind in blowing from East to SW a lot of the enterances in the northern Bahamas (Abacos) cannot be used because of Rage Conditions. (high seas building to the shallower areas) Close together as well. Cannot turn around after you get into it.