Prepping my Seafarer 24

[Captain Smollett]

I think a progression of steps would be used to deal with deteriorating weather.  Depending on the boat, it might go something like ...

Remove Genoa and fly working jib
Reef Main to first point

No doubt each boat is different.

The Alberg 30 and similar 60's era CCA boats have largish mains and comparatively smallish foretriangles.  So, the first downshift, for me at least, is to reef the main even while still flying a genny.

It all comes down to balance.  On my boat (and yours may be VERY different, so I don't intend this to sound like a one-size-fits-all point), if I were to drop the genny, hoist a working jib and keep the full main, I'd be overcome with weather helm. 

I've flown the reefed main and genny offshore in about 17 kts and there was just enough weather helm for the boat to feel 'alive.'  I could have driven harder, with full main, just chose not to...we were still running 5.5-6 kts.  I actually reefed while still in the bay, believing that I'd rather reef "inside" than fool with it outside.  The outside conditions were right on the cusp, so I could have been okay either way...seas were running about 5 ft on average, so it probably would have been a LITTLE better with full main from a steadying the boat standpoint.

Heave to under whatever sail is appropriate
Drop sail and stream the drogue

Oh boy.  :)

We've had whole threads on this debate.  The Pardey camp holds that heaving-to is FAR better than dropping sail, and they've done so in upwards of 85 kts and breaking seas.

This 'heavy weather' debate will rage forever so long as folks go to sea.  Here's to hoping none of us have to put these tactics to use in "survival" conditions.

[Auspicious]

It all comes down to balance.  On my boat (and yours may be VERY different, so I don't intend this to sound like a one-size-fits-all point), if I were to drop the genny, hoist a working jib and keep the full main, I'd be overcome with weather helm. 

John is spot on here. On my Capri 22 it made sense to reduce heel but going to a smaller headsail.

On Auspicious, as long as I have the working jib up, I go to a third reef on the main before reducing the headsail.

[Pappy Jack]

"Hi Dave",

You're probably right about the difficulty of using spinnakers and might give it a second thought. There are some people at my sail club that are very adept at using this sail and I might prevail upon them to enlighten me as to there use. I'd love to have you teach me but it would be a trip of over a thousand miles to get to your waters ::).
The only time I'd probable use it would be on the return trip and could always use a genoa instead. It would be a matter of my comfort zone if you know what I mean :D.

Fair winds,

Pappy Jack

[Godot]

My name is Dave and I am a spinnaker ho.

"Hi Dave"

Adam, if you want to slide over to Annapolis and get some spinnaker time I'd be happy to take you sailing with me. Like so many things, the difficulty is overblown and the benefits under-recognized.

Offer is open to others as well.

sail fast, dave

I'll take you up on that offer!  I'm available this weekend. :D 

Seriously, I've never flown one and would really like to try it out.  Let me know when is good.

(Sunday winds are forecast for 5-10 NW.  If you can believe the forecast this far in advanced).

[Auspicious]

Let me check with my girlfriend to see if I have plans I don't know about. <grin> Back to you soonest.

I'm at Chesapeake Harbour Marina in Annapolis.

sail fast, dave

[Shipscarver]

s/v godot -

Free advice -- and we all know what that is worth!
So, here's my contribution:

[Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place./quote]

A.  Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic. ::)

B.  Barrel bolts are a pain in the butt. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position in bad seas if you batten down. They have a mind of there own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain,  @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!!    >:(

Install a cabin manual bilge pump.

It's nice to have a pump in the cockpit. That way you don't get seasick as the water come up to your nose.  :'(

work up an emergency rudder

Now there's a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? It gets really tedious when you have to steer by sail.
But, in any case, never go offshore without an emergency tiller.

Sounds like a project. Enjoy!

[Shipscarver]

s/v godot -

Free advice -- for what is worth!

Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place

.

A.  Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic.  ;D

B.  Barrel bolts are a pain. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position if you batten down. They have a mind of their own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain,  @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!!

Install a cabin manual bilge pump.

It's nice to have a pump in the cockpit. That way you don't get seasick as the water come up to your knees.

work up an emergency rudder

Now there is a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? It get's really tedious when you have to steer by sail.
But, in any case, never go offshore without an emergency tiller.

Sounds like a project. Enjoy!

[AdriftAtSea]

Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards.  Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin.  IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.

The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate.  Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.

A high-capacity manual bilge pump should be accessible in both the cockpit and the cabin.  One should be installed in each location.

An emergency rudder is always a good thing.  If your boat is wheel-steered, an emergency tiller is too.

[Lynx]

I have a question...if it's blowing THAT hard where a reefed jib would be overpowered...I'm thinking that a drogue for about $150 might be money better spent than a storm jib? Any thoughts????

Hi Frank, There is different thoughts on a drogue. A seperate thread would be good as I know of data ONLY for big boats.

IF you are going down wind I think a small storm jib would be OK unless conditions was going to get to bad to take it down. I do not like being thrown up and down 15+ feet every 3 seconds on the bow of a boat. I suggest that you try it in 15+ winds. Putting up and taking down and then in higher.

On edit: your speed may be the best factor on what jib to use. I think that with a 3rd reefed main in winds more than 30+ mph you will not need a jib of any kind and will be thinking about ways to reduce speed.

[Godot]

A.  Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic.  ;D

B.  Barrel bolts are a pain. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position if you batten down. They have a mind of their own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain,  @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!!

Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards.  Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin.  IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.

I guess I may be thinking along different lines regards the barrel bolts.  I am planning on installing them inside the cabin between the companionway frame and the companionway (or hatch) drop boards.  As long as the main hatch can be slid open, I should be able to always reach in and bolt or unbolt the drop boards.  However, if you are concerned about the main hatch getting stuck shut, well, that is a different story.  Perhaps a quick connect pin (or the previously mentioned carabiner) setup for either inside or out would be the best choice.  It seems pretty darned unlikely that a pin or carabiner would somehow manage to fly up and lock the main hatch unexpectedly.

The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate.  Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.

Hmm.  How strong is polycarbonate?  Would it be worthwhile to replace my plywood drop boards with it instead of beefing up to the next size plywood? Would the 3/8 poly flex enough to pop out of the frame if, say, a 250 lbs sailor was thrown into it?  I presume it would be strong enough not to break.  Heck, I'd probably use 1/2" anyhow (to fit in the existing track).  Worth considering.  If I don't replace the whole board, maybe I'll cut a view hole in one of the hatches and cover it with the poly sheet.  Hmm.  I'll think on this further.

[Captain Smollett]

Hmm.  How strong is polycarbonate?

Lexan is polycarbonate.  Also used in automotive safety glass and bullet proof glass has layers of polycarbonate.

So, it's purty strong.   ;D

[Tim]

Hmm.  How strong is polycarbonate?

Lexan is polycarbonate.  Also used in automotive safety glass and bullet proof glass has layers of polycarbonate.

So, it's purty strong.   ;D

I have a polycarbonate hatchboard for both my boats, and although it is strong enough I wonder if it might not flex enough to be popped out under pressure. I have not checked what the thickness is on mine (it may be just 1/4") in which thicker may make the difference.

[AdriftAtSea]

The 3/8" stuff is strong enough that I can stand on the edge of a dropboard in the companionway and not have it pop out on me. :) 1/4" Lexan can withstand 200 ft-lbs of impact force according to the specs sheet... so it's pretty strong stuff.

Lexan is also used in Riot Shields, Face masks for sports like Hockey and other high-impact situations.  The major problem with Lexan and other polycarbonates is that they yellow under UV exposure.  Most manufacturers make a version that is coated with an anti-UV layer.

[Auspicious]

Adam, if you want to slide over to Annapolis and get some spinnaker time I'd be happy to take you sailing with me. Like so many things, the difficulty is overblown and the benefits under-recognized.

Offer is open to others as well.

sail fast, dave

I'll take you up on that offer!  I'm available this weekend. :D 

Sunday midday does work for me. Still interested?

sail fast, dave

[Godot]

Sunday midday does work for me. Still interested?

sail fast, dave

Absolutely!!  I'll PM my info to you.

[okawbow]

Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards.  Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin.  IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.

The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate.  Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.

A high-capacity manual bilge pump should be accessible in both the cockpit and the cabin.  One should be installed in each location.

An emergency rudder is always a good thing.  If your boat is wheel-steered, an emergency tiller is too.

I made a single hatch board from 3/4" plywood as an emergency/storm board. It also doubles as spare wood for repairs if needed. I store it under the cushions in the vee berth. An emergency front hatch cover, pre made to screw down to the opening is also a good idea. As are some drywall screws for quick repairs.

[Shipscarver]

I guess I may be thinking along different lines regards the barrel bolts.  I am planning on installing them inside the cabin between the companionway frame and the companionway (or hatch) drop boards.  As long as the main hatch can be slid open, I should be able to always reach in and bolt or unbolt the drop boards.[quote]

There will come a time when you want everything battened down, and to stay at the helm. Be sure you (as mentioned) don't end up like Heather, getting betten up and sooaked with nowhere to go. It was a good thing she was able to bust into the cabin once she got desperate enough!

[s/v Faith]

Sorry guys, I intended to quote the two posts below into the thread; Oars, outboards, or.... row, row, row your boat!   I ended up splitting the thread before I quoted the posts... so here are the two posts that were originally in this thread.  :P

  I wanted to copy them to Oars, outboards, or.... row, row, row your boat! because they add to a great discussion on using oars to move small boats...

Have you thought about a sculling oar? I am making a break down oar from and old broken fiberglass mast a friend gave me. In light air, it would give me move me some (in a light boat like mine, 3+ kts might be possible, but 2 is more likely) and in the odd event of waves without wind, keep the nose in the right direction. Downside is that you can't do anything else while sculling. It could also function as an emergency rudder and emergency spar.

and;

Sculling oars are great to have on a sailboat! I made mine from a 12' cedar 2x4 riped to 2" wide. I notched the end for a 1x6 cedar blade x 2' long. Glued and screwed, it was plenty strong. It proved invaluable for anchoring, short term propulsion, emergency steering, and most of all; it helped me get unstuck from three groundings. I keep it just inside the stanchions on the port side of my 24 footer.

[OptiMystic]

I have been giving some thought to an alternate hatch on my boat. Even though I don't really plan to do the really heavy stuff, weather can turn quick. Anyway, I am thinking about making a one piece hatch board that has gasket material or weather seal or whatever around the outer perimeter. After it is slid in, brackets will be screwed into the hatch door from the inside to hold it tightly in place. It will be a door frame really. I just plan to do the slide in so I can easily revert to drop boards again if this doesn't work out. About 2" in from the edges all the way around, I will cut out a door. I will make a lip for the door around the frame so it can be weather proofed. It will be hinged at the top on the outside. It will likely also be cut in half and hinged on the inside in the middle so it folds when opened. Down near the bottom on each side, I would use simple "hillbilly barn door latches" that could be turned from either side If this works out well, I would add a hatch window. The idea is that it is open and lying folded (when I think through this part, I am almost certain it has to be cut in half and hinged on the inside) on the cabin roof, probably bungied to the mast so it doesn't flip down accidentally (OW!). To close it,  just unbungie and flip it down *I ould probably put a handle to genttly lower it) and flip the latches. There are two latches because I think that is sturdier and they are likely to get knoced unlatched accidentally sometimes, but probably not both at once. If the cabin were pooped, I would expect it to leak a little, but not too much. Anyway, that's my idea. I have no sketches or pics, so hopefully my explanation is clear. I bet such things exist already.

[Auspicious]

Had a nice sail with Adam today. We're both exhausted. <grin>

Only a little spinnaker time -- I have a new spinnaker sock that I'd never used before. It turned out to be a lot of work. If it doesn't get easier the next two or three times I'm going back to flying the chute the old fashioned way.

We got chased off the water by a nasty line of thunderstorms. We headed back to my slip with an overturned boat and people in the water being dealt with over the radio. After we tied up, a second line of storms turned 40 boats near Fairview Beach (presumably a race) into a circus of broached and knocked down boats. MD State Troopers where in the air with USCG, MD and VA counties firefighters, and local police all responding on the water.

Interesting day.