How much experience is enough?

[okawbow]

I started this thread a couple years ago, and in that time, I am able to answer yes to more of Captain Smnollett's questions. However; I still can't really prepare for long passages by sailing on inland lakes.

I am starting a trip in a week or so, that will take me several thousand miles if all works out. My first passage will be about 500 miles. After that I should have another 900 mile passage, and another 500 mile trip. Along with those passages, will be river sailing, coastal and bay sailing. I will be sailing a Cheoy Lee offshore 31 ketch. I have worked on the boat for 2 years to get it ready. I'm sure it can handle more than I can.

Still, even with a good boat and lots of high wind and bad weather practice; I will be learning "on the job". If something bad happens, I'm sure there will be many who say I was too inexperienced to take on my trip. I plan to watch the weather, have all the safety equipment, and sail responsibly. When I'm done; I will have "enough experience" to sail across the Atlantic someday.

[CharlieJ]

Interesting subject - One that many people have given much thought to. Here's my answers and some thoughts too.


Consider the following as a list a new cruising sailor might ask himself.  I'm not saying a person has to answer "yes" to each of these to be "ready," but I do think these are things that should be considered and skills to be honed.

** Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?

Oh yes, unfortunately.

** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?

Yes to both. Quite a few times.

** Have you ever sailed in fog?

Yep- was aboard a 30 footer running the St Johns River when it was fogged in to the point the river was closed to commercial traffic. Had it not been closed, we would have anchored.We had been offshore for two days, and it was late.

** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?

Yes, in fact just this year we sailed from Staniel Cay to Black Point (Bahamas) in 28 knots, and waves running in through the cut at Black Point. Wasn't a dry ride ;)

Have not hove to in that much wind, but we've done it several times for drill, and once for lunch ;)

** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?

Yes

** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?

Oh yes- cruised before GPS was around

** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?

Often!! NOAA is known for wrong forecasts in some parts.

** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?

Yes, but not in a danger situation

** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?

Sure, quite a few times

** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?

Unfortunately yes. Quite a few times in fact.

** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?

Yes

** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?

Yep- had a mast fall down sailing on another's boat.

** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?

Quite often. In fact, we normally anchor and un-anchor under sail, if the sails are up. Plus we've only had two boats that had engines.

** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?

Yes, for practice. Never under fire

** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?

Not on my cruising boats. Yes on small one designs.

** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?

Never been towed. Have towed both sailboats and power boats. Once towed a Florida Marine Patrol officer through a bridge  under sail.. I had a dead engine.:D

** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?

Oh, many many times. So has Laura and gotten off by herself.

** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage
below the waterline?

Yes, twice on Tehani. we had a bilge pump back siphon on us about 5 mile,s offshore once.

** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?

yes, but not without some worry

** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?

Nope

** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?

Nope- we always have SOMETHING that can be grabbed and gobbled. Makes good sense to do so.

Yes on the cold and wet!! not fun.

** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"

Yes- on an offshore delivery of a 40 footer, Cape Fear River to Charleston. Found out the owner got seasick, and I had to virtually single hand the boat. Which is why we entered at Charleston, instead of Jacksonville.

On Tehani, never.

** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?

Absolutely. Laura is an excellent sailor in her own right. She has single handed the boat several times for up to 3 weeks at a time. I go below and go to sleep without a worry.

** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?

** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?

Certainly. Neither is required. Our first cruise to Florida and back the only electricity we had was running lights.

And we sailed all over Matagorda and Espirtu Santos bays with engineless boats for years. We have done the Texas 200 twice in an engineless boat

[Captain Smollett]

I will be sailing a Cheoy Lee offshore 31 ketch. I have worked on the boat for 2 years to get it ready.

:)

Cool.  Pretty boat, too.

[SV Wind Dancer]

One of my favorite stories.  A man wins a Columbia 26 bubbletop in a Vegas pokergame, never sailed in his life.  He and his drunken friends pile into a car, take off on a road trip to San Diego with the intention of sailing his prize to Hawaii.  And they sail to Hawaii, where they have various misadventures and blow his winnings in a couple months, and turnaround and sail to Seattle arriving broke and starving, guy sold the boat and went looking for another poker game...     

[Captain Smollett]

I had intended this list to simply be a thought provoking list of the KINDS of situations  one might encounter "out there," but since several have posted answers, I guess I should, too.



** Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?

yes

** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?

yes/yes

** Have you ever sailed in fog?

yes

** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?

yes/yes (practice, not survival)

** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?

Absolutely

** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?

yes

** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?

yes

** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?

yes

** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?

yes

** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?

yes, about 50 knots in a thunderstorm

** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?

yes; ran out of fuel once in a channel

** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?

yes, on two occasions

** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?

yes, routinely

** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?

yes, for practice; remain surprised at just how difficult this can be

** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?

no; closest was more of a push over than a knock down - no mast in the water, probably about 50-60 degrees or so

** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?

Didn't HAVE to receive one, but did get one; have given a tow

** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?

yes, more than I'd like admit

** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage below the waterline?

yes, sorta...at a dock, but not underway away from 'help.'

** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?

yes/yes

** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?

yes/yes; have exercise serious judgment lapses while seriously sleep deprived (ask CapnK how 'smart' I am after two days with less than 5 hours of sleep total over 2 days)

** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?

no, easy enough to plan/prep against unless truly a dire situation / yes

** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"

I guess I've BEEN the incompetent crew (see the sleep answer), but otherwise, no; my crew may not feel fully confident to handle the boat ALONE, but can stand a watch and can do anything aboard that I ask

** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?

No, but everyone aboard that is expected at this time to stand a watch can do so

** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?

yes / yes

** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?

yes / hmmm, well, our running lights DO require electricity and it could be argued that we need those to remain 'safe.' We can run our lights at least 10 days off batteries, though, which is one advantage of LED running lights....electricity not required for general operation of the boat beyond that.


Final question not asked in the above list:

Do I personally feel ready to cross an ocean?

No.  I believe I need more seatime.  The Scoot was supposed to help with that.   ;)  I should have the boat ready for a 2012 Scoot of some sort.

[tomwatt]

As I'm certain everyone already knows, since I'm a worse sailor than fork-lift driver (and I'm a terrible fork-lift driver), I'm pretty much "no" across the board. This in the interests of truthfulness and disclosure.
But then, in my current environs, I lack even the rhythm of the tides to liven things up.
Strong currents and lakeside gusts are the most difficult things I'll see for the near-term... unless you include drunken powerboaters.

[Frank]

I'll take wind, waves and currents anyday over powerboaters...drunk or sober  ;)

[marujo_sortudo]

** Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?

Do I get bonus points if I was at the mast in a squall with full sail up?  Single-handed? Don't want to do that again.  Lesson learned: reef early, reef often.

** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?

Yes to both, but just barely.  Both can be challenging.  Definitely need more experience here.  Entering even a familiar harbor at night in calm conditions can be a bit hair raising.  Dodging lobster pots at night, just downright impossible, unless you have a spotter on the bow.  Fortunately, I have a traditional keel, but running the engine at night is scary for that reason.

** Have you ever sailed in fog?

Strangely, no.  I'm sure I will this summer, though.

** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?

Yes, on both, and loved it.  The most I've handled so far is sustained 35 kts at deck level with gusts to 50 in about 3-4 ft seas (Penobscot Bay last fall.)

** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?

Nope.

** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?

A bit, but I need more practice, especially where dead reckoning and estimating currents is concerned.

** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?

Many times.

** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?

Nope.

** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?

Nope.

** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?

Nope.

** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?

Not yet.

** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?

Not really.

** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?

Yes, though most of my docking experience under sail is with smaller, lighter boats than I have now.

** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?

Yes, for practice.

** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?

No.

** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?

No

** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?

So far I've only bumped and never stuck in larger boats.  In my sailing dinghy, many times, but you can't get stuck in that when a foot over the side will free you.

** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage
below the waterline?

A little bit, not enough to be worrysome.

** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?

Yes, but not too strong of a tide.

** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?

Nope

** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?

Nope

** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"

No my crew are usually quite inexperienced and know it, or skilled and modest about it.

** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?

No long passages as of yet.

** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?

Thankfully, I haven't had to do it in an emergency.

** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?

Certainly, although, I would have to do it without lights, if night sailing.

[tomwatt]

I'll take wind, waves and currents anyday over powerboaters...drunk or sober  ;)

sigh

me too. I'm surrounded by jet boats, ski boats & bass boats.

I do think I may trailer down to the gulf at some point later in the season and throw the boat in for a "real" sail. Hopefully by then I'll be decent enough not to need rescue.

[curtis]

I had intended this list to simply be a thought provoking list of the KINDS of situations  one might encounter "out there," but since several have posted answers, I guess I should, too.

Experience is good, if not bought too dear. (Thomas Fuller)

I suppose the point is that you can learn from other people's experiences, but you've only verified that you've learned something well enough through your own experiences.

With that in mind, the now famous Captain Smollett's list is even more helpful if you add to the list more than a yes or no, but indicate what you've learned for each "yes" and whether you could have been better prepared and what you anticipate you'd need to be prepared for each "no" answer given.

My sailing experience is meager compared to many on this list, but I'll give it a shot.  I do very light coastal crusing in a Com-pac 23.  Obviously not a blue water boat.

Question	Experienced this?  Yes/No	If "Yes", were you well prepared and what was learned.  If "No" what do you think it will take.
Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?	Yes	It was warm and delightful.  Shampoo works well in rainwater.  (I think the question had more to do with miserable conditions in the rain but I had a great time.
** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?	Yes/Yes	This is a definite yes.  I've entered two harbors for the first time at night, Nantucket and Edgartown.
** Have you ever sailed in fog?	Yes	I sail off Cape Cod.  Chatham is famous for its fog.  I cheat and peak at the GPS but try to see how well I'd do without it.  I've sailed Poluck Rip in the fog and that's a "just don't do it" situation without GPS.
** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?	Yes/No	We served champaign on one sail in 25 knots gusting to 35 but that was semiprotected water.  This is where you work up gradually.  Maybe you find out the boat isn't up to much more than 15 knots when you bought her and gradually improve.  I don't consider myself ready on this because I have only been in open water where it piped up to 25 knots for hours (and not days) and waves didn't get all that big.
** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?	Yes	I sail out of Chatham Break.  You don't go through there at low tide, no matter what vessel you are in.  Part of the channel has 1 foot at low tide.  I've anchored and slept on the boat to wait out Chatham Break before entering and also slept near Nantucket at anchor waiting for the current to reverse in Polluck Rip.  Knowing when to sit it out is smart, but where I sail it is essential knowledge.
** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?	Sort of	I have two GPS.  The fixed mount is broken, so make that one.  Both are prehistoric (no charts).  Here is how I use them.  Plot course on paper.  Enter pairs of lat/lon on notebook paper.  Enter lat/lon pairs into GPS.  Get course and distance from GPS.  Compar to course and distance on chart.  It should match.  Then go.  Primarily use paper chart, compass, and binoculars.  Just to be safe verify with GPS when DR is over long stretch of open water.
** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?	No	I did hear of severe thunderstorms and up to 50 knot wind 4-5 hours away one day that was supposed to be sunny with possible scattered thundershowers (standard forcast for the area - we have no clue), but I ducked in and was on the mooring before it passed (and it didn't seem as bad as reported).  So the answer is I haven't been caught yet.  I do short hops and check the weather before leaving.
** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?	Yes	No big deal if you spot them on the horizon, take a few bearings, determine its close and change course.  More problematic where I sail is ferry traffic and commercial fishing vessels returning to port with no one at the helm or on watch.
** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?	Yes	In one case, it was a crossing ferry situation and they didn't response but changed course as the hail may have alerted them.  In another case the last ferry of the night was unsure of my intentions and being cautious.  I indicated that my course was their stern and asked them to enter the harbor approach first since I was a slow poke.  They did.
** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?	No	I'll assume you are asking whether I would expect to survive an anchor drag test.  My boat wieghs in at 3,000 lbs, has a 27 lb plow, 80 feet of chain and 250 feet of 1/2 nylon briad, so I think the ground tackle is up for the job.  Then its just whether I set it well.
** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?	No engine	I've eliminated the potential for failure of that sort.  Never had a rig failure but did heave to for a furler drum jam in 25 knots in very open water.
** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?	No	I'm propably not at all well prepared for a rig failure.
** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?	Yes.	No motor so yes.  Rarely dock and it has to be an end dock with an escape route.  I'm on a mooring so quite good at picking up the mooring under sail and I seem to get by anchoring under sail.
** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?	Not often enough.	This is something I don't practice enough but I do "practice" a lot picking up a mooring ball so that helps.
** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?	No spreader in the water	Lesson for me is to be careful of gusts when you know you are carrying too much sail.
** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?	Yes	Received a pull grounded in two different boats.  Got a tow once when wind died and I was going against a buidling tidal current (I have no motor so I had set the anchor) and someone came by that was going the same way.
** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?	Yes!	I sail in water with 1 foot MLW in the channel.  I've grounded intentionally at low tide and set anchor by hand.  I've grounded quite a few times by accident in inconsequential situations.
** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage below the waterline?	No	I'm probably not well prepared for that.
** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?	Yes	You don't do that in some places unless you are crazy, but where it was safe enough I've done it.  We have 4+ knot currents in the channel near Chatham Harbor.  Polluck Rip can be very dangerous in strong wind against tide.  Also with current running into Nantucket Sound (which is called the ebb in Eldridge) if the wind dies when passing Butler Hole you could be carried by current over the Tide Rips with ocean waves over 1-3 feet of water.  So yes, but not without thinking really hard about what I'm about to do.
** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?	Not quite.  No.	I've sailed more than 16 hours continuous singlehanded, but that's all.  So not quite that bad.  If I was that tired and conditions allowed, I'd anchor out and enter after a few hours of rest.
** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?	No	Why would you do that?  I usually bring food and dig into the cooler now and then.  I have been cold and wet, to the extent that being in foul weather gear is being wet and the answer there is bring more layers.
** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"	No	OTOH Many years ago I was out on someone else's boat with a skipper that claimed to have a clue about sailing that apparently didn't.  Other than insisting on dousing sails when it hit 15 knots and motoring back, then a grounding and panicy skipper nothing bad happenned.
** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?	No	I mostly singlehand.  I also go out with my wife and she's not really capable, and sometimes go out with non-sailors or novice sailors but usually that is just day sails.  From that standpoint I'm still singlehanding in a sense and not relying on crew.  With newbies its a gentle introduction to sailing when they are asked if they'd like to try the tiller.
** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?	No	Chartered so that is an unfamiliar boat, but not an emergency and we got 25 knots when Tropical Storm Dennis passed 500 miles to the South so not really adverse conditions.
** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?	Yes.	No motor so no mechanical propulsion.  Big battery so NAV lights should hold up so not sure on the no electricity question.  Other than lights, VHF, depth, knotlog, GPS (have handheld too) I don't use electricity and I can do without all that.  I also don't venture beyond 1/2 day from land.
** Do I personally feel ready to cross an ocean?	No way	This boat isn't built to cross an ocean.  Even in a blue water boat, I'd need quite a bit more experience and would have to be better prepared.

I would say that because my sailing is only very light coastal, never more than 30 miles from land, that most of the experiences I've had are not adequate preparation for crossing an ocean.  And then there is the issue that mine is not a blue water boat and never will be.

My experience is relevant to the type of water I sail in.  It isn't the open ocean many days away from landfall.  When the weather is going to be bad I have the option to duck in a harbor.

A small lake sailor builds experience relevant to sailing in a small lake.

The list is still very useful.  I've read about people dying on a small inland body of water.

In one case an experienced hobbie sailor was blown into the marsh when conditions changed for the worse.  No one knew he hadn't come back.  The next morning when they realized he hadn't headed off to the bar with friends they  found him on the trampoline dead of hypothermia.  Such is sailing in New England.  So the mistake was not being prepared for the cold, not letting anyone know where he'd be, and staying out on the water after conditions worsenned.

Whether the person asking the question "am I ready" is a 10 year old trying to decide whether to cross a small lake in Dad's sunfish, or an inexperienced lake sailor with their first boat, or a coastal cruising sailor, or a blue water cruiser, just asking the question "am I ready" is a first step.  When asking more experienced sailors the question really becomes two parts.  "What will I need to be ready for?" is the first question, and Captain Smollett list was a start at looking at that.  The next question, which is even harder to answer is, "when will I know that I'm ready?"  It is a very tough question because it irequires determining when the risk is low enough.  Low enough risk is a personal choice.  Maybe the best answer to that second question is "you'll know" because only you can decide when the risk is low enough.

I should have the boat ready for a 2012 Scoot of some sort.

Go for it.  For me a scoot in this boat might be much shorter, mostly 50 miles at a time or less, occasionally more if there is no harbor that I care to stop at.

Curtis

btw- This is my first post on sailfar.  I've been registered for over a year but had misplaced my password up until now.  I post now and then on com-pacowners.

[Captain Smollett]

Wow, excellent first post, Curtis. You made some very good points in regard to 'the list.'  Welcome to sailfar, even that welcome is a bit late.

I've read about people dying on a small inland body of water.

Yep.  I've mentioned a couple of times the time I was sailing on an inland lake in 25 knots.  The next day, we learned a fellow was missing on the same lake, just a few miles from where I was.  A few days later, his body was found.

Very humbling ...

[Auspicious]

Great post Curtis. Grog to you.

It isn't the open ocean many days away from landfall.

Oceans are easy. It's the hard bits around the edges where we get in trouble.

[Marc]

Happy Easter everyone!!!As far as experience goes,  I think I'm gonna get plenty of it in about a month.  I'm headed to a lake here in Iowa on the 18th of march and staying out four nights and five days.  It is the 2nd largest lake in the state and have read and heard that it is probably the best for sailing.  21,000 acres and 190 miles of shore line with lots of coves and bays.  I am a little apprehensive but really looking forward to it.  I'll probably be by myself.  It will be a good experience.  I hope I posted tis in the right category.  Google Lake Rathbun if you want to know where I'm going.  Hve a good day,  Marc

[Oldrig]

Hey Curtis,

Welcome aboard!

Are you a catboat sailor? There are lots of those wonderful vessels out of Chatham.

Anyway, great post--you actually sail through the Chatham Break. Good for you!

Happy Easter!

--Joe

[Oldrig]

Okay, I guess I should answer the famous questionnaire. Clearly, I've got some skills to hone before trying a major crossing.


** Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?

Yes. A number of times, including in blinding squalls and a full gale.

** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?

Yes. Both solo and as crew to Bermuda last year.

** Have you ever sailed in fog?

Yes. Several times; usually while singlehanding.

** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?

Yes. I often sail in high-wind conditions (the norm on Buzzards Bay). I have hove-to under those conditions, but usually only long enough to reef down or dash below to grab foulies.

** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?

Yes, often. Usually to avoid grounding in a shallow channel.

** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?

Rarely since buying a GPS. But I always sail with paper charts.

** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?

Yes. I usually sail in New England. Need I say more?

** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?

Yes. I sail in near a busy commercial channel (leading to Cape Cod Canal). I've had to tack suddenly a few times, but never under emergency conditions.

** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?

Yes, several times. Always on a friendly basis so far (usually, "Thanks, Cap.").

** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?

No. I've been aboard, but only on moorings.

** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?

Twice. Once I called TowBoat and waited (probably doesn't count).

** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?

No.

** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?

Yes. A few times, but not often.

** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?

We did a MOB (or is it COB) drill before the Bermuda trip. Stupidly, perhaps, I've never done it on my own boat.

** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?

I think so. Once, in a sudden and severe gust, I think I went over far enough for my spreader to touch the water. Luckily, she righted herself when I released sheets and let go of tiller. It could have been a near-miss; I was too busy to notice if spreader actually touched the water.

** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?

Yes, I've been towed a couple of times. I've never had to give a tow.

** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?

Yes, often. My home channel is very narrow at low tide. Sometimes I've jumped overboard and pushed off; often I've dropped the sails and the hook and waited it out.

** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage below the waterline?

No. (Do I jinx myself by answering?)

** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?

Yes. Exiting the Cape Cod Canal into a headwind and once, entering Bass River (in an unfamiliar boat).


** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?

No. I've sailed sleep-deprived for a single day in pilot waters, but never longer.

** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?

No. Never for 16 hours. Once for 10 hours while singlehanding. I've been cold and wet at the helm more times than I could count.

** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"

No. On the Bermuda trip, especially when I got seasick, I sometimes felt like I was the incompetent one.

** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?

Yes.

** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?

Yes/NO/Yes. I've sailed unfamiliar boats, sometimes in adverse weather, but never in an emergency.

** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?

Yes, but never very far from land. Do backup batteries (AA) count?

**And, finally, do you feel ready to cross an ocean?

Certainly not alone. I definitely need more offshore time.

--Joe

[maxiSwede]

Great post Curtis. Grog to you.

It isn't the open ocean many days away from landfall.

Oceans are easy. It's the hard bits around the edges where we get in trouble.

I agree 100% to that.

Maybe I might twist it a bit and say, as to 'how much is enough', that once one has got to really KNOW and FEEL within oneself that Auspicious comment above actually is true, one probably has experience enough.

The trick is to hang in there until that concept is not just understood, intellectually, but felt at heart...

And then stay humble from there on, the Sea is Mighty after all

[s/v Faith]

Curtis,

  Hello and welcome aboard!  That is some fancy formatting you have going on there... very nice. :)

[maxiSwede]

All right, I feel I gotta share too.

Have seen this thread but not had the peace of mind to sit down and answer...


The Famous questionnaire.


** Have you ever sailed in the rain, including working at the mast or on the foredeck?

Oh Yes. A number of times, including in blinding squalls and a full gale.
Sweden is high latitude, (Stockholm 60 N) and the weather change rapidly even if rarely severe during the summer season.

** Have you ever sailed at night?  In unfamiliar waters?

Many times, solo and with crew. Single-handed I did a number of 36 hr passages, dozing of the classic catnap style before taking the decision that I wanted to do this as a full time lifestyle.

** Have you ever sailed in fog?

Unfortunately, and without radar, I just hate it. In the old days, w/o radar or GPS, I would just leave the fairway, drop the hook and wait...

** Have you ever sailed (ie, not dropped all sail and motored) in 25+ knots?  Have you ever hove-to your boat in 25+ knots?

Yes, 43 knots sustained at sea during 5-10 hours is my top note so far. that was actually quite nice, at night with growlers all around. Downwind ride and never took water into the cockpit. Never had to heave-to due to too bad conditions to sail, done it to wait for dawn, to rest, and as practice though

** Have you ever stayed in port due to unfavorable tides?

Yes

** Have you ever sailed in unfamiliar waters without a GPS?

Bought my first GPS in the early 2000nds, before that always without.

** Have you ever sailed in weather significantly different than the forecast you had when you got underway?

wish it were less often. forecasts are signifcantly better these days. In my experience it seems hardest to forecast wind speed in nice summer 'high pressure weather' when sea breeze makes a big impact in my home waters at least

** Have you ever had to alter course or immediate plans to avoid a container ship (or similar vessel)?

Numerous times, never had a near-death feeling though. Or maybe once...when we headed into to Dover harbour (UK south coast) to refuel after a passage over the North Sea inn dense fog (not too smart maybe) and between the breakwaters a huge ferry pooped out of the fog some 250 yards BEHIND us. That, I willingly confess, was scary!

** Have you ever engaged in Bridge-to-Bridge communications with a commercial ship (or any other vessel)?

Yes, a few times.


** Have you ever been aboard your boat at anchor in a blow greater than say 35 knots?

Yes, the worst was a christmas storm in Portugal a year and a half ago. 45 sustained, very gusty, and with a 180 degree windshift in the midst of it after some fomidable thunder storms. At night it was an ehilirating spectacle. Needless to say we were awake and ready to fire up the engine if the anchor hadn't hold.
 
** Have you ever emergency anchored due to engine or rig failure, to buy time to make repairs?

Once, as I recall it, the engine didn't take any raw water and was about to overheat. No wind, nightfall and shoals to starboard and a commercial fairway to starboard left few other options. fixed the problem and hi?isted sail in the morning. BTW, this event became the end of my first 36 hr single-handed passage, meant to be 3 days, but the wind failed...again

** Have you ever had to sail under a jury rig or contend with any rig failure while underway?

No jury rig, and no serious failures, the occasional sheet or halyard has come apart at inconvenient times

** Have you ever docked or anchored under sail?

Yes. A few times, but not that often.

** Have you ever had to maneuver, under sail, to pick up a Crew Overboard (or other object), even if just for practice?

Practice only. Rule on board is. Never fall over the side, if you do, your dead.
Seriously, one has to hold on and/or stay attached due to the conditions.

** Have you ever dealt with a knock-down or roll over?

Not that I can recall, an occassional broach, and sailing with wildly luffing sail(-s) during a squall, yes.

** Have you ever had to receive a tow or give one?

Yes, I've been towed once after the head gasket gave and the wind died just outside the entrance after we sailed 25 miles in +30 hours to get there...
the coast guard seemed to enjoy the practice. We just called for assistance on the VHF (all stations) and made sure to clarify that we were not in a n emergency situation. Slowly drifting away from the channel, offshore

** Have you ever been aground and gotten off by your own efforts (or patience)?

Numerous times, and a few times with the much appeciated assistance of so called 'stinkpotters' At some occassions, lots of horsepower can save the day.

** Have you ever had to contend with the boat taking on water from damage below the waterline?

No.

** Have you ever run an inlet from seaward at a time other than slack water?  With wind and tide opposed?

Yes. Not a great idea. Done it due to appointment with other sailors. Don't like it at all

** Have you ever operated your boat sleep deprived (say less than 4 hours of sleep per day over a period of at least 2 days)?  In pilot waters with other vessels and shipping?

Yes, see above about 36 hr passages solo

** Have you ever operated your vessel when you have not eaten for more than 16 hours?  Cold and wet?

Abolutely not. There are bananas and raisins and chocolate if all else fails.
It can bemiserable enough without famine on top of it  ;D

** Have you ever had to deal with incompetent crew who represented themselves as "good sailors with blue water experience?"

Had all kinds of crew, incompetent mostly and a few very competent. But so far, no liars. ;)

** Has everyone aboard who will stand a watch single handed the boat for a duration of at least one watch cycle?

Yes.

** Have you ever had to sail an unfamiliar boat, perhaps in an emergency? In adverse weather?

Not really, I mean mergency or severe weather. That said, I have uptil now done 95% of my sailing on my own vessels over the years

** Can you operate your vessel long enough to get to safe port with no mechanical propulsion and no electricity?  Are either of these required to keep the boat and crew safe (including well fed)?

I'd like to think so... that would mean relying on laptop battery for navigation if needed, and we do not have emergency nav.lights. We do have (Auspicious brilliant suggestion) a 'spare battery bank' in form of a 30 AmpH MC battery that possibly could do it. Meant for emegency engine start up mainly. I gotta admit that I haven't given much thought to emergency lights....other than flashlights and headlights. White flares is also a good item to carry

**And, finally, do you feel ready to cross an ocean?

Very much looking forward to it in fact, the meditative state of mind that comes with detaching from modern means of communicaation, well,, with the exception of HF radio. Got my HAM liccense a couple of weeks ago. No Epirb though...

Cheers, s/v Nanna

[Oldrig]

That is some fancy formatting you have going on there... very nice. :)

Sure is. I tried to format my answers similarly using an MSWord table, but it all ran together when I put it into the forum message.

If you can sail half as well as you format text, you'll be crossing oceans in no time.

--Joe

[curtis]

Great post Curtis. Grog to you.

It isn't the open ocean many days away from landfall.

Oceans are easy. It's the hard bits around the edges where we get in trouble.

Yes the edges are trouble.  Good navigation practices help with that.  But in a small boat that is too beamy and light for blue water the waves that can only form with fetch and time are also trouble.  With a CSF well over 2, its best I stay within a day or less of shore.  Unless I chaged boats.

But I'm sure you knew that.

Cheers,

Curtis