Advice on first sailboat

[Grime]

Hi,
I'm new to your forum and new to sailing. I have been thinking about 3 different boats to learn on. Have to teach myself. Any advice on them would be greatly appreciated.

Mac Ventura 22, Clark San Juan 21, Santana 21, Clipper Marine 23  All are priced about the same. What I want is something that is trailerable with swing keel and shallow draft. So far from what I have read I like the Mac the best. The boat I buy will not be new and might need some minor refit which I can do.

My plans are to learn in the Matagorda Bay here in POC and when I feel I'm ready take short trips up and down the Texas coast. As I get more experience maybe over to N.O and points east.

Thank you
David

[CapnK]

Welcome aboard, David! Grog! :)

While I don't personally have experience with those particular boats, I'll offer this: Your first boat will most likely not be your last!  ;D After you have a boat and use it, you begin to find out what it is you *really* want/need, and then you start looking for the 'more ultimate' boat.

For example: My first monohull was a Com-Pac 23D that I loved, it was actually a dream boat of mine that I'd thought I'd never be able to afford. One day though I got lucky and found one at a great deal. She was a great boat, built well, a looker, but after a few years... She suffered in windward performance (for my tastes and intentions), and had no standing headroom. From owning her over time, I learned that those two considerations overshadowed everything else, for me, and the hunt was on for the boat that I have now (Pearson Ariel). So this is a factor it pays to keep in mind when you consider purchasing - your first boat is a kind of springboard, and classroom, not necessarily the 'be all, end all'. :)

For more useful information ;) specifically regarding the boats you've mentioned, you might want to ask this same question at the Trailer Sailors Bulletin Board (or "TSBB"). There are lots of people there with all types of boats, so I'm sure that you'll be able to get some invaluable pre-purchase feedback from folks with direct experience of those models.

Looking forward to hearing about your 'adventures' as you learn! :) I think there might be some folks here who will be able to get out on the water with you, too. :)

[Grime]

Thank you for your reply. I'll check out the TSBB site. Gotta crawl before I can walk. My goal is to liveaboard so like you said my first will be the springboard to my goal.

Take care
David

[Leroy - Gulf 29]

Personally I like the CM - of course I have one in my back yard  ;D.  Charlie Jones who posts here and on the TSBB is in your area.  As well as having Tehani, he is a Mac dealer and knows his way around boats VERY well.  I'd check with him for advice.  To learn on, any smaller lighter sailboat will do.  I'd look for ones that there are a lot of - Catalina 22, Mac's, etc.  Easier to sell when you step up to your next boat.  I like my CM23 twin keel, but I'm kind of a strange duck anyway.

[Captain Smollett]

Hi David, Welcome aboard!!  Grog to ya, mate, for volunteering (rather than being pressed!! You have to watch CapnK when he is in your port area).

I'd like to comment on the SJ 21, though I know CharlieJ can offer more as I believe he used to own one of the originals (there are several different models, and they ARE different - both in accomodations and sailing).  Speaking at least of the newer models, the SJ21 is more what I would call a "racer;" it is light, nimble and quick.  I don't know that it really makes a good "cruiser," though I suppose that is more a matter of attitude if you are thinking along the lines of 'boat camping.'

I've seen them expertly handled, and they are beautiful to watch.  They absolutely turn on a dime and are good sailing boats.  If you allow yourself to the see whatever limitations to taking such a boat "cruising" that might exist, SJ 21 would make an EXCELLENT first boat imo.

As for the others, I've no direct experience, but have heard/read tons of positives from the owners of both the Santanas and the Venturas.

There's a strong group here at sailfar and though we don't usually discuss sailing technique as much as other boards (which might be a little off putting to new sailors I suppose), I'm sure any questions you might have can be addressed here.  Rightly or wrongly.   ;D

Good luck, keep us informed, and as always, TAKE LOTS OF PICS (even of your newbie mistakes...   :)  ). 

[Grime]

Again thanks for the replys

CapnK your link to TBBS did not work. I'll try and remove the extra http and see what I get.

Oh I plan on taking a lot of pictures. My wife post them on her myspace. This way family can keep up with us. I will post the good, bad and ugly ones. The bad and ugly ones will be of me.  ;D

I like what I have read about the Mac Venture 22. Rest assure I will pick Charlie's brain on that one.

Take care
David

[AdriftAtSea]

Welcome to sailfar.

One book I'd highly recommend for you to get and read is Dave Seidman's The Complete Sailor. It covers a fairly wide range of topics and is one of the most readable and well written books I've seen.  It is also well illustrated.  Unlike many "basic sailing" primers, it covers topics like navigation, anchoring, docking, weather, and the history of sailboats.  I've given about a dozen copies to friends who are learning to sail. It's about $14 at most major bookstores.

:)

[CharlieJ]

David TSBB is here-

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi

[Grime]

Thanks Charlie I bookmarked the site.

ADriftatSea,
I have Chanpman Piloting, The Boater's Handbook, Sail Fundamentals, and The Sailing Handbook. I've been studying for the past 3 years. My plans, when we were still in Montana, was to learn over in the San Juan's but thing just didn't work out.

Thank you all for the info.
David

[Captain Smollett]

David, 

Just remembered: too bad you did not hit TSBB while still up in Montana...I'm sure Sean M. would have helped you get started.  But, you'll find plenty of "local knowledge" in TX.

Fair Winds,

[Leroy - Gulf 29]

Yes, it's really to bad - You could have come with me on Canyon Ferry in either my Gulf or the Clipper. :(

[Grime]

Hi Leroy,
It is a shame that I didn't get over to Canyon Ferry. Didn't know there were any sailboats over there. We lived in Wolf Creek for 5 years and then in Boulder for a year before coming back to Texas. The rest of the time, 20 years, we were farther east working on ranches. The only sailboat I saw the whole time was a small trailer one over in Montana city except those on I90 headed East or West. I know there are some over on the Flathead just never got time to get over there.

Wish I had found this forum 3 years ago. We meet Charlie and his wife today. What a nice couple. She is a wonderful artist.

Take care and stay warm,
David

[Lynx]

Hello and welcome. With boats this old a main factor is what (bad) condition is each in. Take a good look.

Find some free or almost free courses. West Marine or the like can help you. get trained up to bare boat. You will need to repair any boat that you get. Take heart and learn. A whole different world at time. The more time on the water the better if it is just on the hook all weekend.

Basicly, you should take the boat apart and replace anything that needs to be.

[Grime]

Hi Lynx,

Basicly, you should take the boat apart and replace anything that needs to be.

We went to look at a Santana 21 that I guy call me about. Priced high, only needed cushions.  OK  :o

No rudder, no tiller, split mast post in cabin that holds the mast or mast support post in cabin, 2" of water on the floor, motor mount history, all wood rotten. needed total paint bottom and top, sails rolled up around the boom and not a smooth roll, like someone was in a hurry. Blister and soft spots don't know, trailer tire history, only thing good was the trailer. It needed a complete refit. Would cost me twice, with me doing the work, than what I would have been dumb enough to pay for her. I don't mind working on one as this makes me part of her. Just not in the position to throw money away.

I might not be a sailor but I have learned enough to know when not to waste my money or if in doubt get a survey done. 

You can rest assure if I had anything that floated right now I would be on the water even in a pirow (spelling) Not sure if that is even a word. They were small wood boats with about 6" sides that we use to row off the Mississippi coast when I was a boy.

Take care
David

[Auspicious]

Welcome aboard David! I'm one of those tolerated around here as the owner of slightly bigger boat. I have done my share of little boat sailing, including a good bit of cruising with a girl friend in her Catalina 22. I would commend that to your "look at" list. The standard 22 (not the Capri) was available with a swing keel, a fixed keel, or a wing keel. The swing keel is a great sailing boat with the keel down and a nice skinny water boat with it up. One of the nice elements is that the cabin top swung up on struts when at anchor with a canvas skirt. That gives you a good sized true standing headroom area over the galley area and a good part of the dinette.

Just a thought.