replacing my standing rigging ?

[matt195583]

 OK Im now the owner of a 1978 catalina 22 there are a few things i need to do or would like to do before i take her on the maiden voyage

1 replace the standing rigging

2 repair some chips and whatnot in the gel coat

3 reinforce the outboard bracket

4 spring clean ( in summer )

5 oil any timber and replace the timber that makes up the hatch slide

The question that is troubling me the most is how far to go with the standing rigging ie: just replace the wires or replace the wires turnbuckles and shackles

I'm not sure how old the existing rigging is but the wires are pretty well stuffed some of the wires are missing a strand or 2 . The turnbuckles appear to be ok as do the shackles I will also rerivet some of the fittings to the mast where the rivets are showing some corrosion .

The standing riggings is not too expensive . $600 aus to buy direct from catalina in the states , $600-$900 quoted by local buisness or I can buy the wire ,  ferruls , thimbles , turnbuckles , D-shackles and a hand swaging tool from a local supplier for $310 all in 316 stainless except the ferrules which are nickel.

I am rather handy with most things of a practical nature and will have a go at anything but I am just wondering if there is somthing I should really know about making this rigging up myself or is it a specialist thing best left to experts ?

Any help or links to helpfull sites on this matter would be greatly appreciated

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd recommend replacing the entire standing rigging.  It is 30 years old after all.  I would go with swages at the top and mechanical fittings at the bottom.  Mechanical fittings seem to stand up to the greater exposure to salt water better than swaged fittings, and can be more easily repaired should the need arise.  Also, IMHO, a hand swaging tool won't make as secure a connection as mechanical fittings like StaLok or Norsemans. 

If you do re-rivet the fittings on the mast, be sure to use stainless or monel rivets and to coat them liberally with either LanoCote or TefGel, to help reduce the risks of galvanic corrosion issues between them and the mast. Also, if the hardware is stainless steel, put a thin plastic liner between it and the mast.  Cut up plastic milk bottle works well for this—it's LDPE. 

On the outboard bracket—be careful if it is a wooden mounting plate.  I've seen what looked like sound wooden mounting plates split because water got into the wood and rotted it from the inside out through the fastener holes.  A solid fiberglass plate is probably a better solution IMHO.

[matt195583]

Adrift thankyou for the prompt response , I done a price out of all the gear i need from the local supplier and it was $275 aus delivered, that was with swaged top and bottom though . I was thinking of doubling the ferrules as an overkill . from the same supplier i can buy a 316 wire rope grip for $1.90 . would it be ok to use the mechanical grips top and bottom on the wires as $80 of the 275 was the hand swaging tool . So to use all mechanical fittings would cost about $65 that is with the fittings doubled saving $15 on the tool + $8 for the ferrules .

Note taken on the mast fittings plastic from a milk bottle it a briliant idea , i guess i will go oversize on the rivets so i can use the same holes .

As far as the outboard bracket goes , when i trailered the boat home I left the OB on the bracket (9.8 tohatsu) big mistake , as the aluminum bracket was bolted straight to the gelcoat on the transom  ??? there was nothing in between subsequently the OB bouncing on the bracket has pushed the bottom of the bracket into the gelcoat .

I was planning to seal some 1/2 inch marine ply with fiberglass resin and plate between the gelcoat and the bracket with it with the ply about 1 inch larger than the bracket . Also I was going to put a piece the same size on the inside of the transom with large washers on the bolt heads .

[matt195583]

Just a  thought but would a polyethelyne board or nylon chopping board be better then timber for the outboard mounting bracket as i have several large ones that i never use  :-\ .

And is there a difference between 316 stainless and 316 marine grade stainless . I was under the impression that 316 was 316 and the marine grade part of it was a gimmick

[AdriftAtSea]

First, using the PE cutting board for the outboard mounting bracket might be a good choice... I'd have to see the way things are put together though before I'd advocate it. :)

There isn't a difference between 316 stainless and 316 marine-grade stainless.  One thing that helps check stainless as to grade is using a magnet.  The austenitic stainless steels which are the "marine" grade ones, like 304 and 316 are non-magnetic.  If the magnet sticks, don't use it. :)

I'm not sure what you mean by ferrules?  What I mean by mechanical terminals are StaLok, Norseman, Hayn HiMod or Suncor terminals.  Most of them look something like this:



The only tools needed for these are two wrenches, pliers, wire rope cutter, and Loc-Tite.  Do not assemble StaLok type fittings without using LocTite or something similar.  The fitttings will gall and become inseparable. :)

If, by ferrule, you mean the sleeves that go over the cable, and clamp two sections together and look like this:



They shouldn't be used on stainless steel rigging 1x19 wire rope.  The wire rope isn't flexible enough to be terminated using them.

[Cmdr Pete]

If you just need to replace the wire and the swaged fittings at each end, then you can send what you have to a big rigging shop to be replicated. They'll use a giant swaging machine. Shouldn't be very expensive, if you don't need new turnbuckles.

Would you benefit from some type of quick release hardware on one or more of the shrouds/stays since you'll be launching from a trailer?    

[AdriftAtSea]

The quick release idea isn't a bad one, considering you are going to be trailering the boat. I'd recommend using a hyfield lever for the quick release, since it allows you to re-tension the stay or shroud fairly quickly. 

[Cmdr Pete]

By the way Matt, your "To Do" list is way too short. You won't get any sympathy around here.

Keep looking ;)

[CharlieJ]

If, by ferrule, you mean the sleeves that go over the cable, and clamp two sections together and look like this:



They shouldn't be used on stainless steel rigging 1x19 wire rope.  The wire rope isn't flexible enough to be terminated using them.

I have to strongly disagree here. There are literally THOUSANDS of boats out there with nicro press fittings over stainless 1 x 19 wire, done very successfully. Virtually every beach cat in the world is rigged like that. All the original wires on Catalinas Macgregors, and many others are done using nicro press fittings. Just be sure you use the proper sized thimble.

They work just fine up to size 3/16.. Over that, then I'll agree. But for 1/8, 3/16,  etc they are fine. I've done many of them in the shop for people replacing rigging on Hobies

On the Sta-locks, I agree completely on what Adrift said. I used them on Tehani , top and bottom and they are easily done. And they can be taken apart to be inspected, then reassembled. Good equipment, but pricey. I carry a piece of wire, two Staloks and several wedges for use in emergencies. If you must reuse a Stalok on new wire, all you need is a new wedge.

[matt195583]

Yeah ferrules = nicro press fittings , that is what is on the origional rigging , there are 2 fittings similar to the ones you posted pics of Adrift ,on the inner shroud so the rigging goes up somewhat close to being tensioned . I will endevour to get some pictures of the outboard bracket to further explain what i mean .

that to do list is the stuff i want to do before i put her in the water . no doubt after the first run ill find all manner of things to do  ??? .

[AdriftAtSea]

Charlie-

I keep forgetting how small the rigging on some boats is... the forestay and cap shrouds on my boat are both 9/32" wire IIRC... and can't use a Nicro Press fitting... yes, for the smaller rigging sizes, it is perfectly acceptable. :)

[matt195583]

my rigging is all 1/8 ,

[CharlieJ]

Yeah- 9/32 is most definitely out of nicro press range. I suppose it COULD be done, but it would take far stronger hands than mine to make the bend :D

But the 1/8 is most definitely doable. Nicro press says one sleeve will do, but we always use two, for both insurance, and that the second sleeve can hide any wire ends effectively. I also usually go up one size on the thimble too. Makes the wire bury a tad deeper, so nothing touches it at all except the thimble.

I have a hand tool, that uses a wrench to tightene- did a 35 foot ketch rigged tri using it. I've also got a hand tool for the Johnson fittings ( lifelines) on order. Got three boats to rig life lines on as soon as it gets here.

But the StaLocs are very nice fittings. A tad costly as I said earlier, but well worth it. Swage fittings ( machine swage) just aren't to be trusted after 6 or 7 years in hot salty climates on  a boat that's used a lot. Some last lots longer than that for sure, but some don't. If you have them, check them thoroughly and frequently, particularly the ones on the lower ends.

[matt195583]

charlie , Im not too worried about the lifespan of 6 odd years because I can replace all wires on my boat for around $135. why would any one let their rigging go longer at that price ?

[AdriftAtSea]

Yeah- 9/32 is most definitely out of nicro press range. I suppose it COULD be done, but it would take far stronger hands than mine to make the bend :D

It'd also stress the rigging a lot by bending it like that...

But the 1/8 is most definitely doable. Nicro press says one sleeve will do, but we always use two, for both insurance, and that the second sleeve can hide any wire ends effectively. I also usually go up one size on the thimble too. Makes the wire bury a tad deeper, so nothing touches it at all except the thimble.

I have a hand tool, that uses a wrench to tightene- did a 35 foot ketch rigged tri using it. I've also got a hand tool for the Johnson fittings ( lifelines) on order. Got three boats to rig life lines on as soon as it gets here.

Do you have photos of the tool or a link to it??

But the StaLocs are very nice fittings. A tad costly as I said earlier, but well worth it. Swage fittings ( machine swage) just aren't to be trusted after 6 or 7 years in hot salty climates on  a boat that's used a lot. Some last lots longer than that for sure, but some don't. If you have them, check them thoroughly and frequently, particularly the ones on the lower ends.

This is why I recommend the uppers be swaged and the lowers be mechanical.  The uppers tend to not get exposed to salt and such as much, so can often last a very long time in tropical conditions, even if they're swaged. 

[Tim]

But the 1/8 is most definitely doable. Nicro press says one sleeve will do, but we always use two, for both insurance, and that the second sleeve can hide any wire ends effectively. I also usually go up one size on the thimble too. Makes the wire bury a tad deeper, so nothing touches it at all except the thimble.

I have a hand tool, that uses a wrench to tightene- did a 35 foot ketch rigged tri using it. I've also got a hand tool for the Johnson fittings ( lifelines) on order. Got three boats to rig life lines on as soon as it gets here.

Do you have photos of the tool or a link to it??

Dan, I believe CJ meant one of these

[AdriftAtSea]

Tim-

Is that for the Johnson lifeline fittings?? It isn't a Nicopress tool, at least from what I remember. :)  It also looks like something that the battery cable lug crimper I recently bought could probably do. Getting multiple uses out of hardware and tools on the boat is always a bonus. :)

[Tim]

That is probably what it is. I have one that I have used to make cables with (centerboard crank, sail pendants etc.) I would NOT do my rigging with it unless in an emergency situation. It is small enough to stay in the tool kit onboard.

[matt195583]

The tool i have ordered for the nicro press fittings looks like a set of bolt cutters ............
http://allthingsstainless.com.au/home/tools.html

[matt195583]

would there be a problem using 7x7 wire instead of 1x19 ?