windmill generator and solar panels??

[chris2998]

I read so many people in magazine or on the web having solar panels an wind generators on there boats, can you tell me what can these things all charge. I mean can you be running your radar or depth finders non stop while cruiseing? can you give me some name of good wind generators so I can read up on them??
What is all your experience with them?

Thanks
Chris

[AdriftAtSea]

They charge the batteries...the batteries provide power for the electrical system on the boat.  Radar, radios, VHF, nav lights, autopilots, refrigerators, etc., all use electricity.

Duogen, Airgen, KISS, Four Winds, Red Baron, are all brands of wind generators.

[sailorflo]

Just a quick note, Ive owned wind and gas generators. Now Im going to solar panels there are no moving parts do not make noise and are easier to take care of .  All in all I feel that if there is room on your boat solar is the way to go remember part of the lure of sailing is not having to listen to machinery running RIGHT!!!!!! Just remember no matter how much power you have you will always want more,learn to live without it and things will go smother when you do have power

[dnice]

Anybody know the math to figure out how many amp-hours something will be using?

[Godot]

Watts = Amps x Volts
Amps = Watts / Volts


So if you have something drawing 12 Watts on a 12 Volt circuit would give you one amp.  Run it for an hour and you get one amp hour.

Is that what you are looking for?

[dnice]

Yeah thats what I was looking for thanks.

[chris2998]

yeah solar I think would be the best thing probally to go with. So I guess you can get just as much power from solar as you can the wind generator??

I'm reading a book right now which I can't remember the name LOL about a guy who did a 4 year circumnavigation on a 31ft boat I thinks its a pacific seacraft actually and this guy talked about the wind generator couldn't handle alot of wind because it would burn itself up or something. It almost sounds good to maybe have both but that maybe to much junk on a boat and just more stuff to break

[Delezynski]

Chris,

FIRST, where do you plan to cruise? It will make a big difference in your power generating ability.

If you will be in the Sea of Cortez, solar IS the way to go. Not a lot of wind during the summer but you get A LOT sun. In the South Pacific Islands, you get a lot of wind. BUT, most of the cruisers I know try very hard to anchor places where they are out of the wind!

Also, keep in mind that you don't have a LOT of real estate to mount a lot of solar panels on a small boat.

If you look at some of our "Gear Reports" (on our web pages in the "Position Reports" area) you will see information we posted from our last 4 years of cruising.

Hope it helps.

Greg

[Godot]

I think you can probably get more power out of a wind generator than solar panels (assuming that the wind is blowing at a decent rate and the sun is shining), unless you have a ton of deck space to spread the panels out on.  The question becomes how much power do you really need.  And what do you do when the wind isn't blowing (or you are sailing downwind and have little apparent wind), or the sun isn't shining.

Lots of big cruisers run solar, wind generator, and diesel generators, depending on conditions.  They tend to have big power needs.  But that's okay because they tend to have large budgets.

Running a hypothetical based on, say, a boat racing the Scoot the will be offshore for a week or more.  You mentioned RADAR, so we will throw that in.  LEDs are becoming the norm, so I will assume LED nav and cabin lights.  I will assume that if you have RADAR you don't need AIS or other toys.  I'll also assume you aren't a HAM and don't require refrigeration (since you didn't mention it).  So, running these hypotheticals...

Radar I think would take about 5 amps, and could be a big, big drain if run all the time (120 amp-hrs/day); but there are energy saving features on many of them which should reduce the power by quite a bit (for the sake of argument, since I really don't know, let's say the radar will transmit for one hour a day total, or about 5 amp-hrs/day).  A fish finder/depth sounder would probably be around 1/2 amp or 12 amp-hrs/day.  If you don't talk on the radio much, the vhf might run you around 3 amp-hrs/day.  LED navigation lights maybe 1-3 amp-hrs/day, depending.  Cabin lights maybe 2 amp-hrs/day.  GPS maybe 3-10 amp-hrs/day.  Occasionally use a laptop at maybe 10 amp-hrs/day.  Figure an electronic autopilot might be 30 amp-hrs/day.

Figuring all that (and these numbers are VERY rough and can be significantly higher or lower depending on how you are outfit and how energy conscious you are) it could be around, lets say, 70 amp-hrs/day.  Add refrigeration and it goes higher.  Ease up on light and computer usage, or maybe turn off the depth sounder off shore, and it could go down quite a bit.  But let's say 70 (my personal usage is quite a bit less; but that is me).

If it is summer time and you are in a good sunny latitude, lets say you can average 6 hours of direct sunshine on the panels a day.  70 amp-hrs X 12 volts = 840 watts a day.  Divided by 6 hours of production and you need 140 watts of panels. A Kyocera 130 watt panel is around 56 x 26 inches.  A pair of 65 watt-ers would be 30 x 26 inches each; which is a fair amount of deck space on a small boat.

A Rutland 913 would output about 3 amps at 15 knots.  If the wind is blowing, that would give you 96 amp-hrs/day, more or less.

A big battery bank could get you through low production days.

Choices, choices.  Of course, you could just minimize the need for juice.

[CharlieJ]

Having had both wind and solar, and having cruised with both, I don't think you can really say which is better without factoring YOUR OWN electrical usage. Ideally you would have both, but as has been said, there is a mounting problem on smaller boats.

When I was living aboard my tri, I had an AmpAir 50 mounted atop the mizzen mast. That unit supplied us with adequate power MOST of the time.. East coast cruising, summer time, and you may have little or no wind for much of the day, but lots of sunshine. Comversely, winter times, you may be short on sun rays, but have mucho wind. We had several occasions where we had to resort to a gas powered generator to recharge batteries- twice in the keys, once in the mid Chesapeake and once in Annapolis.

On our current boat we have a 32 watt flexible panel that so far has supplied ALL our needs on two cruises to Florida and return, including a 3 1/2 day offshore passage. But here lately, we would be hard pressed to supply enough juice- we've had days and days and weeks of little to no sun and foggy weather.

So really, both would be ideal. Since we don't want the bother of a generator mast, etc, we choose to take another route- we drastically minimize our usage- to the point of being electricity misers. No refrig ( we don't carry foods that require being kept cool), led cabin ( or oil) lights, gradually switching to LED lighting for other things also, including the running lights before we shove off. VHF stays on most times, but we don't transmit a lot. I leave that on because on two occasions I was the ONLY vessel who copied a MAYDAY and could relay to the Coast Guard until they could get a aircraft within range. Depth sounder is secured anytime we aren't attempting to anchor- I really don't need to know the water depth offshore and when I DO want to know it, I turn the unit on, read the depth and shut it down again.

But again- the ONLY real answer is to calculate YOUR usage, then decide how you'll provide those amps. It's MUCH simpler to cut down on what you need by the way, and sooner or later all those electronic niceties are gonna fail on you- nature of the beast ;D

Gives you a lot more freedom of movement also.

[chris2998]

Thanks Charlie yeah I was thinking the same both solar and wind would be good to have and I'm thinking the same just keep the radar on all the time and maybe a radio for comunicating like you say if you hear a mayday fridge would be nice to but again pack foods that don't need to be refrigerated.

Thanks
Chris

[thistlecap]

Chris,
When we moved aboard in the VI, we questioned everyone we could find with a wind generator for months before making the plunge.  The WindBugger was the favorite, and people were using it for refrigeration and freezers, TV, and all the rest of the gear, and never running the engine.  We went with the WindBugger.  With three kids aboard, the TV ran a lot in the evening, and with home schooling, incandescent reading lights were on frequently.  That was the mid-80's, and solar wasn't quite up to speed yet.  We had the WindBugger on its own mast on the port quarter.  There was an electrical brake available, but there was a long handle on the back side of the generator, so when the wind got too high, we'd just reversed the generator until the blades stopped, and wrapped a web strap around one blade which held it stationary.  We only ran the generator when we were aboard, not wanting to risk adverse weather running it too hard while ashore.  Since my wife and I both worked, we generally only ran the generator in the evenings and at night.  One of the biggest concerns is mounting it high enough that someone won't step up under it and put their head into the blades.  That happened to a man on Tortola while we were there, and it opened his skull.  He had to be flown back to the states and was in the hospital for months, and lucky to survive.  On a small boat, the drawback with the WindBugger is its size.  I don't have the specs here, but recall the diameter being close to four feet.  For me, that's too big on a 25 ft. boat.  I looked at panels first, but the largest flexible panel only produced 4.5 Amp Hrs for a 14 X 52inch panel, and even being a power miser, I still needed 16 to 22 Amp Hr. on Thistle, so I would have needed five panels of that size.  Not wanting to invest in both systems at present, I'm looking at going back to a wind generator, but the Ampair 100 with its much smaller size would be much more suitable for our boat, and still producing 100 watts.  We also used the WindBugger on two trans-Atlantics and several trips back and forth to the East Coast.  Even sailing downwind, we always had more than sufficient power and never had to run the engine for electrical generating.  Since we operated the wind generator manually, it had no voltage regulation.  We just turned it off when power wasn't needed.  If the generator was mounted aloft, I'd definitely have a regulator on it. 

You're probably thinking of running the radar all of the time because of your experience in the Gulf, where I've counted over 400 oil platforms on 3 mi. radius, and a few have no lights at any given time.  Even then, you should only need it when you may be running a few hours at night.  In real life elsewhere, except on large commercial vessels, radars are used infrequently.  Even on the schooner, we only used it in fog, to watch the approach of a squall, closing land at night, in dense traffic, like approaching New York Hbr. at night, and even then it was on standby most of the time except when we wanted a range on a ship or wanted to spot a buoy hard to locate because of the city's backlighting.  Most of the time, we'd go weeks at a time with it never being turned on.

[Amgine]

This thread is much appreciated (grog to various contributors!)

One thing I'm considering is a towed generator, primarily for its simpler installation (the home built unit I've seen is simply hooked over the stern cleat, leads clipped onto the battery, and the rotor tossed over the stern. When not in use it's stowed below.) It seems logical to me that while sailing it would be smart to use the system I spend the most money and time on (the boat) to generate the electricity. It won't help me in port, of course, and I'm not even sure I put a system together, but I like the concept.

Has anyone had any experience with using one? either homebuilt or a commercial unit?

[LooseMoose]

We used an Ampair towing generator for a number of years and for those making passages ( as opposed to daysailing) they do make a lot of sense.

As far as electric output we kept records on two Atlantic crossings and both averaged out between 110 to 175 amp hours a day but as we had no need of that sort of power in those days we would often just tow the prop for six to eight hours a day (36 to 48 amp hours) The basic output was nada till you hit four knots then one amp per knot so six knots would provide six amps...

In thousands of miles towing the prop we never lost the prop to a fish or had any problem ( though we did get a few impressive tooth marks!)

Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/

[cantxsailor]

I have an Airex Marine 400watt turbine and an 85watt Carmanah solar panel mounted on my PCS25 "Turtle". I have 2 160ah Lifeline batteries and a Grp31 starting battery. I have all the usual lights and stereo and an Engel fridge. This set up keeps the batteries all charged and me happy. I removed the panel before hurricane IKE but the turbine stayed up through the storm with no apparent damage. I currently have the whole thing set up in my yard at the house just so I can keep my batteries healthy while I do the last of the hurricane repairs. I hope to be out on the water soon...m

[Tim]

There you are Martin, welcome to SailFar...finally;)

Pretty easy going bunch here with some pretty good small boat cruising info. Let me be the first to grog ya for showin up!  :)

[CharlieJ]

'Bout time you showed up  :D

I only been talking about the place for years now-

Welcome aboard.

[Gus]

How about a towed generator? I've been toying with the idea. Just dunk it in the water while under sail, it should generate current. Same as anchor, (using the current)

[LooseMoose]

Towed generators make a lot of sense for long passages but less so for short ones...

We used to have an Ampair wind/Tow generator and it worked very well. Under tow mode it would make no electricity till you got up to about 4 knots and then it came in at about four amps ( nothing to sneeze at!) from that point on it was abut another amp per knot so if you were doing 6 knots you'd be getting six amps.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/