New to Route Planning, questions

[2far2drive]

I havent read any pilot charts or route guide books yet so these questions may be a bit "simple" for those who have read them.

As in my previous post I mentioned that im very big into surfing and exploring and yadda yadda. So After all the reading I have been doing Im noticing a very "tried and true" to the cruising routes, very similar to the backpacking routes. Why is this? There are thousands of places I want to visit and explore under sail that NO ONE mentions of visiting. Sometimes I could see "security" being one but sometimes places altogether are left out.... not ever a mention.

So what am I missing? The weather and currents just too bad? No harbours?

Here is a small list of what im thinking about in particular

1) carib side of central america, Honduras, Nicaragua (especially the Mosquito Coast)
2) Pacific of Colombia (threat from rebels is realistic but prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriimmmeee untapped surf is there for the taking)
3) west africa (liberia, western sahara, ivory coast, etc)
4) Mozambique and Madagascar
5) much of Indonesia (sumatra, timor, java, and the thousands of islands in between)
6) India
7) Bangladesh
8) Myanmar
9) Argentina

and the list goes on....

why why why????

[dnice]

My list is pretty much the same as yours.

I think for the most part, the people that cruise those areas aren't interested in inviting the rest of the world to join them :)

I think the Marina's and amenities do play a big part in the majority of cruisers decisions. But if you have basic knowledge of the area you are going, and can plan for whatever you are going to need to take with you, you can go anywhere you want.

Some places may have politics and officials that don't make it easy on cruisers, so people just avoid them. But I know there are plenty of people cruising those areas anyway, they just aren't writing about it for whatever reasons.

I am also sure security fears keep people away from a lot of places... but thats just fear. People are not generally bad and if you take basic precautions its not going to be an issue. Of course if you have a big sign on your boat that says I AM TOURIST PLEASE ROB ME, you will have bad experiences in any non-tourist area.

The pilot books, and things like lonely planet guide books, would be a good place to start. Check out backpackers websites too, Backpackers are generally full of information, and if people are backpacking there, I am sure you can sail there.

[2far2drive]

The pilot books, and things like lonely planet guide books, would be a good place to start. Check out backpackers websites too, Backpackers are generally full of information, and if people are backpacking there, I am sure you can sail there.

Thats exactly what I mean. I post on some surfing forums too and I have noticed even surfers are afraid to wave chase when I have met backpackers that lived in grass huts somewhere in an area most people could swear you would be killed just for being white.

Im glad they are being quiet though :) Im very quiet about some beeaaaaauuutiful and virgin places in Mexico I drove to firsthand.

And I also agree with you about people generally being good. For all the bad poop that happened to me in Mexico/Guatemala, 10 good things would happen to me. People helping us all the time, some so poor that 1 of my paychecks could sustain them for a year easy. I learned my lesson about being careful and just being aware of your surroundings... I was stabbed sleeping on a beach in southern Chiapas about 25 miles from Guatemala. Very scary situation and I learned my lesson about making yourself a target.

Good to see another person interested in some of the same places :)

[dnice]

I forget which book I read this in (a cruising book), but the guy had a theory that a huge majority of the muggings and attacks on Tourists in Central and South America were because the guy (the tourist) was wearing shorts. He said the latin men considered shorts 'sissy' clothes and therefore made them a target.

Thats the kind of local knowledge you won't find in a guide book :)

unfortunately bad stuff happens everywhere. But taking precautions definitely lowers the chances, and those chances are already a lot lower than any major city in America to begin with. I would much rather get stabbed on a beach in Guatemala then in front of a starbucks in Chicago  :o

[Auspicious]

I havent read any pilot charts or route guide books yet so these questions may be a bit "simple" for those who have read them.

Route planning and destination planning are different things. Pilot charts and route guide books (like Jimmy Cornell's "World Cruising Routes" or the older UK "Sailing Instructions") help you choose a route to get to your destinations. They don't say much about those destinations.

Start with noonsite.com. The countries section has a lot of information about procedures and facilities. Then search the news section for updates, particularly regarding personal security.

Consider joining SSCA and getting the CD with all the accumulated cruising reports. There is often some valuable tidbits there.

1) carib side of central america, Honduras, Nicaragua (especially the Mosquito Coast)
2) Pacific of Colombia (threat from rebels is realistic but prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriimmmeee untapped surf is there for the taking)
3) west africa (liberia, western sahara, ivory coast, etc)
4) Mozambique and Madagascar
5) much of Indonesia (sumatra, timor, java, and the thousands of islands in between)
6) India
7) Bangladesh
8 ) Myanmar
9) Argentina

1. I see reports of cruisers along here periodically in the SSCA bulletin. Also read http://www.indigomoon.us/
2. Search Latitude 38 and other US west coast cruising sites
3. Look for UK and EU web sites and cruising guides.
4. South African, Austrailian, and NZ cruisers are good sources for these destinations. I think http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/ is run by a Kiwi.
5. & 6. & 7. I know I've read about people going here, but can't remember where I did so.
8. no idea
9. Check out http://bethandevans.com/. I think they recently did Argentina and Chile.

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

[Lynx]

I do recommend cruising in your local area for at least 6 months to get the unknown bugs worked out.

[mrb]

Above posts give a lot of good info, especially Lynx recommendation.  If I might suggest then extend area to Bahamas and down the Caribbean.

If you really want to go to some of the places you name I would also suggest going with smaller rather than larger.  Keep the frills down to min. Become as proficient in local languages as possible and do ever thing possible to fit in with the local life style. 

Most the places you have named a desire to visit are unfortunately some of the poorest areas of the world which makes them some of the highest pirate areas.

By your post I gather you are used to fitting in so that should not be a problem for you.  gisatvassar.blogspot.com/2008/11/mapping-pirate-activity  should get you to Vassar site that maps pirate activity around the world.  I don't offer this as trying to scare you out of going but as info another source of info to help with decision making.

The smaller rather than bigger idea is that if you look like a rich person you probably are which is good to get into rich places, but does.t really impress the poorer people who live in the areas where you want to fit in.  That may be why hikers are so accepted where they travel.

microcruising.com  is a nice site by a couple who truly go small and they tell of how they are welcomed into the local life.  Good reading and inspiring.

Good voyaging
mrb

[AdriftAtSea]

BTW, the URL for the Piracy map is http://gisatvassar.blogspot.com/2008/11/mapping-pirate-activity.html

[skip]

Let's make it simple. Let's look at actual pictures.
Go find Google Images and then
find http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?...
and play around with that. In the lower corner you will see the Lat and Long for the places you are looking at. Write them down. After you learn the ins and outs of this site I think this will assist in the information your looking for.
Down load and save Chart Navigator and go from there. skip. Re: Nautical Charsts
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2008, 06:52:43 PM »   

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You can down load NOAA charts for free, onto your computer. There is also a test mode going on with charts set up for easy printing.

Here's the web page for NOAA charts- enjoy browsing-

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/staff/charts.htm#POD

Here's the test site for printing chart books-

http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/BookletChart/

And here's an online chart viewer where you can look at ANY NOAA chart online.

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/OnLineViewer.html

All for free 

Report to moderator    Logged 

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Charlie and Laura
Sailing Matagorda Bay, Texas
aboard
S/V Tehani
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd point out that you can get most of the US Govt. issued pilot charts and sailing directions online.  I have a nice post on my blog linking to the files that are available, or were at the time I posted it.  You can read the post here.

[Auspicious]

At the point you purchase paper charts, I have chosen to skip small-scale passage charts entirely and use pilot charts (which I want anyway for the statistical, historical wind information) as passage charts. For large scale I get chart books for areas I intend to cruise and use chartlets in cruising guides for bail-out ports. This approach--which won't meet everyone's expectations--seems to me a good balance between storage space needs, cost, and safety.

[Lynx]

Nice for planing, I need a little more data for voyaging. you cannot beat the price.

[Auspicious]

Nice for planing, I need a little more data for voyaging.

Okay - I'll bite. Why? There is a whole lot of empty between Bermuda and Azores, or between Bermuda and the BVI. What detail is on a passage chart that isn't on the pilot charts?

I'm leaving Thursday on a delivery from Oxford MD to Tortola and I believe we have Chesapeake, Cape Hatteras, and BVI plus close-in stuff for miscellaneous inlets on the way South. We're going East over the Gulf Stream the South straight to Tortola. Once we make the turn we are two days or more from the US coastline. Why bother with a passage chart? If I'm missing something I do want to know!

[Norm]

Hi all:
A couple of thoughts on why we don't see/read of more exotic cruising locals.  Danger is certainly a factor and has been well discussed.  Three other elements are important to cruisers:  fear, charts, and repair/support facilities.

1. The really interesting places don't have very good charts.  So...  the risk of damage is increased.

2. In really interesting places where there are no charts, there are no repair facilities.

3. Cruisers are more risk-averse than one might expect.

Therefore, folks stay in well-trod venues.  I find the cruisers I meet in the Caribbean are having a pretty exciting time in the "well enough known" places that there is no compelling reason to explore outside the region.  Aside from that, I do go into seldom frequented anchorages in the Caribbean and find there is often a reason for not hanging around... poor holding, sea swell, bugs, etc.  Sometimes places are unpopular for a reason.

Some places are un-discussed so they stay private.  I'm not telling you where they are, either!

Pick up the hook and go...

Norm

[s/v Emma Gail]

Voyaging will take you across great distances and through many seasons.  And just like hiking weather is a primary factor in route planning.  Most of the cruising routes are set up to maximise the number of places you can see while taking advantage of favorable weather patterns, currents, seasons, and so forth while intentionally avoiding storm seasons.  There is absolutely no place that is off limits when cruising, however as you stated security has to be weighed as well as the financial impact of going somewhere and falling out of sync with the prevailing storm seasons and having to stay over for an entire season.  Most of us have to get the most bang for the buck so the plan is to cram as many places into the schedule as possible, but the overlying motivational factors are weather and $$$$.

[LooseMoose]

Easily one of the most used books  on the boat over the years is Jimmy Cornell's "World Cruising Routes" http://foxyurl.com/1hL which covers all of the various milk runs but also pretty much covers most everything else. Add his World Cruising guide and you have an unbeatable combo!


Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[Amgine]

<hmmphs> While I have great respect for Mr Cornell and his teams, I've also corrected them. Just because something was written down 100 years ago, and somebody else copied it down too and told it to a bazillion people, doesn't mean it's true today.

I like finding a local cruising guide, written and updated by locals often, and used by locals. In the Pacific Northwest, for example, there's a great tool called the Waggoner Guide. It's not flashy, it's published every year, and it's heavily subsidized as advertising - similar to the yellow pages. But it tells you much of what you want to know about the local scenes.

Not great as a route planning tool for a passage, but it will get you around within the area it covers. Warns you about some of the local wind/current anomalies, too.

Pilot charts, British Admiralty's World Ocean Passages, Cornell's books, various government's Pilots and Sailing Directions, reports from other cruisers including organizations like BWCA or SSCA, CIA's World Factbook... all are part of route planning, and a lot more besides. Route planning is half dreaming, half using a library, and half jumping off having faith in your ability to improvise.

Remember, you'll likely spend more time at your destination than en route. So where to go is pretty important too.

[LooseMoose]

The new version of the "World Cruising Routes" has been updated quite a bit even addressing the changes in crossing windows due to weather changes of late plus as more people are going further afield there are more routes covered. However it is NOT a cruising guide and never set out to be one. (neither is his "World Cruising Guide" for that matter. What it is, is a reference guide for folks who need to know how to get from where they are to where they want to go anywhere in the world.

As for having had to correct Cornells stuff...Of course! Every cruising guide or reference book is out of date by the time it goes to press! We just cleared into French St Martin this morning and the fees and check in procedures had changed since the last time we had been here all of three months ago... So it goes!

But I'll still say that "World Cruising Routes" is a book that has a place on any cruising boat that plans to voyage and it is the first book I consulted when I decided to sail to New England later this month.

Hmmmph right back at you...

Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[Amgine]

::grin:: Yep Bob! I'm mostly annoyed about Cornell's treatment of the northern Pacific which is... well, simplistic. Probably because not enough people cruise it and report in. It's just not as attractive a destination as, say, Madeira or the Carribean. But it's where I'm sailing.

Just means I have to do more research, and I'm naturally lazy. And curmudgeonish.

[LooseMoose]

I find that all of the places on my "wish" list are off most of the cruising guides radar... That said if they had a Doyles guide to it most likely i'd not have it on my wish list!

Its a female dog being a trend setter...

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/