Has anyone heard or know these guys

[Navyvet]

www.freedomboatworks.net
I love the lines on these boats but I don't know squat about them. I was wondering if you guys know of these boats? What do you think of them? So far I am fond of the 210 and the 250. If you guys have anyideas let me know.

[Oldrig]

Hi Vet,

It's an interesting concept, and a jazzy (too much so for my old sensibilities) website. Perhaps because they don't have a dealer network, and haven't been at East Coast shows, I don't know anything about them.

However, as so many boat manufacturers have shut down of late, I'd make sure they were still operating before thinking about getting one of these boats.

--Joe

[Marc]

I know that kelly hanson marine.com is a dealer for them that may be a place to start.  The guy in charge name is Art.  Marc

[Navyvet]

LOL Art Kelly is the president of freedom boats (he is also the Kelly in Kelly Hanson)you just made me look it up and yes they are still making them. Apparently they just got the molds form Hobie also, to make the Hobie 33 again and make a cruising version with a higher draft (this sounds great but I don't need a 33 foot boat). I still like the 210 and the 250 not sure which flavor to get I don't need a lot of room there is a small chance I will live on the boat but I'm use to Navy space 6' by 2' by 2'. That was my world so a 20 foot boat is like a football field to me the head space on the 250 makes it sound nice too was wondering what you guys thought of them.

[mrb]

Hi NavyVet

Nice to see someone is making something other the needed mega-cruiser.

The 21 looks good on picture but 4'2" can be a little low when you add a enclosed head.

The 25c is another story, as written and shown. If you could see one in person and the price was right that might be a good deal.

You might want to think of contacting cajun and seeing if he lives close to plant.  He lives in Colorado and could possible give some more info.  Whatever, good luck on search.

mrb

[Gus]

I don't want to be negative because I know nothing of Freedom Boats, but there was something fishy going on with them, I can't really put my finger on it, but there was a lot of discussion about them in the trailorsailors board last year.

[CharlieJ]

Here's the link to that thread-

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives20/index.cgi?read=614930

But also pay particular attention to this post by Phil Herring who runs trailersailor ( among many other boards)

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives20/index.cgi?read=615222

[Navyvet]

LOL WOW OK ya that just sounds like a lot of kids fighting about which super hero would win. I just like the boats I saw one down here in Fort Walton on a tailor. Thought it was a nice looking boat got a better look at her later in the day and saw the name plate on the side it was a 250.

The info you posted the link to kinda make me wonder but then again have you guys seen Macgregor's plant? I don't figure it has to be a nice place to make a boat as long as they make it I'm happy.

I did do a BIG amount of research about Kelly Hanson found one guy that got a mac form there all bent out of shape but it was still in the original shipping box when he got it so Kelly Hanson never got a chance to pull it out. He wanted just the factory stuff and he wanted it delivered in the shipping container hate to say it not sure what this guy was expecting but he got a boat that was a little beat up wasn't clean and he got mad. Kinda like a car dealer when they get a new car in I know they clear and wax them up before putting them out.

Just my thought process. No I'm not connected with the company in anyway feel free to run my ISP you will see I'm in Crestview FL (using the cox cable net work) just like I said I was when I first introduced myself. I just think it sucks that some worker is stupid enough to lie online when all you have to do is run a little program and get all the info you want about someone in 2 mins.

I have nothing to hide I just thought it was a nice looking boat I have seen one and touched it so I know they are out there. So putting that to the side at least they have made 1 of them. I don't figure this is a big place making them I don't care if he has a staff of 5 or 500 if they can make a boat that can stay afloat and sail halfway well (p.s. the 250 I saw was going very well) I'm happy. Now with that aside I like the look of the 210 but the 250 definitely has more room I will be going out there to CO to see the boats before I by one (mama didn't raise no fools) and after reading the other website info I want to see it myself.

If you guys know of another company out there that has someboats with in general the same lines with the same "style ish" interior for about 30,000 let me know please. I have nothing against used (to be honest probably will end up there anyway) but for now this is about the best for the buck I have found for the style and interior that I like. I trust your input, I have read enough form your experiences and knowledge to learn you know what your talking about. At the same token I have been to enough other site to see and read them to know there is a lot of "arm chair" sailing going on too.

I wonder if all new products go through this same process first doubt them then make fun of them the say they are crappy remember Glocks don't get me wrong they are ugly guns but they do work.

(edit by S/V Fatih, no content changed, just added some breaks to make it easier (possible) for those of us with less youthful eyes to read.)  ;)

[Tim]

What I find curious is that they have been out for over a year now, but I have yet to see one show up as a purchased boat.

[dnice]

There is a thread about this over at sailnet that is a little easier to read, and has some different perspectives and information than the TSBB thread.

I was going to comment on the little bit of research I did. But I'm not :P

Nevermind what the critics say about new companies/boats... I think where cruising is concerned, a well found builder and design is the way to go. Leave experimenting to the racers.

[Oldrig]

Hey NavyVet,

If you do get to see or sail one of these boats, please keep us posted.

I'd damned well like to see guys like this succeed, because I think the best hope for the future of sailing is small shops building small (well, under 40 feet) boats that can be sailed/trailered by folks like us!

But some of those threads would make me wary.

Anyway, you might also look at used boats--lots of those out there right now!

Best of luck,

--Joe

[mrb]

Wow NavyVet, grog to ya

Looks like you stuck a stick down that snake den and stirred them up some.  Good going,  I'll stick by my guns and still say it's nice to see someone taking a chance on smaller boats. 

Don't worry about the nay sayers, just because some people refuse to acknowledge what some one els sees with their own eyes doesn't make them right. Heck I haven't seen Africa but I'm not willing to say it doesn't exist.

There is a site called called "sail calculator pro" which has just about every boat made which gives good info on how boats handle and such.  They list a liberty 21 and 25 but not sure they are same ones you saw.  Any way a good site to check out any boat you may be interested in. 

Good searching
mrb

[mrb]

NavyVet

You might want to check out posting in classifieds two categories down.  Pearson on e-bay asking $7 th. and some.  Then look it up on sail calculator, impressive sea comfort and capsize rating.  A lot of folks on site have Pearsons and would probably give good advice.  If I was in Florida I know I would take a look.

mrb

[dnice]

remember that capsize ratio and all the other numbers proposed on sail calc are based on the factory direct completely empty boat... Any changes to weight, sail area, windage, and center of gravity (most importantly)  will result in a drastic difference numbers.

It makes sense for basic design principals, but when it comes to cruising, its absolutely useless.

(edit)
I don't mean to say any particular boat is not good... I just mean that the sail caculators do not represent the cruising boat. what makes a good cruising boat has much more to do with build quality and resourcefulness than it does with hull design. thats all...

Hull design is the last worry when it comes to cruising. (IMO)

[Gus]

I did do a BIG amount of research about Kelly Hanson found one guy that got a mac form there all bent out of shape but it was still in the original shipping box when he got it so Kelly Hanson never got a chance to pull it out. He wanted just the factory stuff and he wanted it delivered in the shipping container hate to say it not sure what this guy was expecting but he got a boat that was a little beat up wasn't clean and he got mad.

ok, first, how do you get a boat in a shipping box? I sure would like to see that. If I'm sold a boat, and I'm cheated in the process, I will be mad too.

Hull design is the last worry when it comes to cruising. (IMO)

What?? Nathanael Herreshoff will probably turn over in his grave if he reads this!

[AdriftAtSea]

Unfortunately, some mis-steps by some people in the company have given them a tarnished rep before they even really got out of the gate.  They spammed a good number of forums and did a few other things that have them behind the eightball now...

If they can pull it off, especially in this economy, all the better.  I have yet to see one on the water or hear of anyone who has gotten one on any of the sailing forums I've been on.  As far as I can tell, they're all marketing spiel, but no substance to the actual boats yet. 

[CharlieJ]

remember that capsize ratio and all the other numbers proposed on sail calc are based on the factory direct completely empty boat... Any changes to weight, sail area, windage, and center of gravity (most importantly)  will result in a drastic difference numbers.

It makes sense for basic design principals, but when it comes to cruising, its absolutely useless.

(edit)
I don't mean to say any particular boat is not good... I just mean that the sail caculators do not represent the cruising boat. what makes a good cruising boat has much more to do with build quality and resourcefulness than it does with hull design. thats all...

Hull design is the last worry when it comes to cruising. (IMO)

I certainly would not consider the sail calculator "useless". While it has it's limitations, it is extremely useful in being able to compare several boats. It's also quite useful for looking at potential performance- i.e.- Sa/Disp ratio, pounds per inch of submersion ( gives you payload capacity ideas)

And while areas such as "motion comfort" and "capsize ratio" would certainly change with the load carried, they DO give you a beginning idea of how stable a boat might be, so at least you can eliminate ones that would be totally unsuitable.

I also disagree on the hull design- Hull design can be extremely important in seakindlyness amd comfort. The older hull designs from Alberg and Rhodes for example, are far more sea kindly than some of the newer all up racers, just for one example. I'd much rather be on my Meridian or an Ariel at sea, than on a J-24, just to pick one example

Oh, and here's the link to the sail calculator -

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

[Tim]

Hull design is the last worry when it comes to cruising. (IMO)

I have to strongly disagree with this also. I think hull design is paramount to a good cruising boat. Stability and Sea kindliness are necessities. Ability to take all conditions on safely is definitely affected by hull design.

[dnice]

Sorry my comment was a little extreme.

Obviously there is some usefulness to the sail calc. for specific things or just for general comparisons sake.
I personally just don't put much stock into those numbers and would not let them influence my decision in choosing a boat.
I think there are too many variables that effect those numbers once a boat is put to work as a cruiser.

I too would choose an Ariel over a j-24, but I do not need a calculator to tell me why. I don't think its too difficult to look at a design and see if its going to fit my needs or not. maybe thats just me.
it just seems like common sense. I would not choose a racing boat for cruising, so yeah, hull design is important to me, but not on the minute scale that those numbers suggest. There are plenty of people out there cruising in racing designs and every other design.

Its pretty simple to set a few design characteristics as criteria, once you have done that other factors become much more important. Looking good on paper is just not that important to me. And I wouldn't want people to think they should limit their choices based on something like that unless they have a very specific criteria and they understand how certain calculations are going to be effected by even the smallest variables.

[Navyvet]

I did do a BIG amount of research about Kelly Hanson found one guy that got a mac form there all bent out of shape but it was still in the original shipping box when he got it so Kelly Hanson never got a chance to pull it out. He wanted just the factory stuff and he wanted it delivered in the shipping container hate to say it not sure what this guy was expecting but he got a boat that was a little beat up wasn't clean and he got mad.

OK, first, how do you get a boat in a shipping box? I sure would like to see that. If I'm sold a boat, and I'm cheated in the process, I will be mad too.

Sorry talking about the Macgregor 26 will fit in a shipping container that is one of the reasons they build them this way. This is a great shot of how they move them overseas or to your marina from the factory.
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Coming%20out%20of%20Container%204.jpg
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Coming%20out%20of%20Container%207.jpg

And I don't really care how fast she goes (same reason I was looking at Mac's to begin with) as long as she will move and stay above the water. If I wanted to race I would go be a millionare lol not going to happen in my life. I'm more about just getting out and enjoying life. If I can make it down the coast a bit at the time great if I can't no biggie. That is also the reason I'm looking at trailer sailer pick it up and take it where I want. Not about the most sexy thing on the water but they will float and that I can have fun with. I learned really fast get what you need and make it work around you. Ever live in a tent for over a year(Thank you Uncle Sam) you learn real fast you don't need much. As long as there is a roof over my head and water beneath my feet I'm in my own heaven. I think it's in my blood my last name is Fisher not Farmer. ;D And Dnice no reason to apologize some people care how fast there boat is, some care how she looks outside, and some care how she looks inside. Remember everyone is different what is one persons junk is treasure to another. Just be happy you have a boat I'm still working on getting mine. :D I love the input keep it coming guys this is helping alot thank you to all of you and grogs to everyone.