Any Advices on dealing with Yacht Brokers??

Captain Smollett · February 26, 2009, 08:53:49 PM

$30,000, really? And you feel like you are LOW BALLING for a good 'sail far' type boat?

Hmmm.

The MOST expensive Alberg 30's on YachtWorld are upper 20's, lower 30's, and they tend to be fancily appointed in really, really good shape. The low end starts around 10-11K. If you have 30K to spend, a TON of refitting can be done if you by a $10,000 boat. And I paid LESS than that for mine. She was in good enough condition to run offshore the first time I sailed her.

A couple of years ago, there was an Ariel (perhaps under your minimum LOA, but the point still holds) in PRISTINE condition for $5,000. Your typical Triton project boat runs $1,500 to $5,000 or so.

No, I am not dropping zeros.

I don't mean to sound 'uppity' about this, but $30,000 is LOT of money for an older, capable world voyager.

s/v Faith · February 26, 2009, 09:35:46 PM

Chris,

I agree with John. The broker is not dealing with a full deck. You are MUCH better off doing your own search, walking docks, and looking at online (owner posted) adds.

I just opened this months 'Good Old Boat'* and see half a dozen candidates that would merit consideration. Granted they may not be local, but I know a delivery capt that works really cheap.... ;D

*Highly recommend a subscription BTW

Oldrig · February 26, 2009, 09:36:49 PM

Chris:

I can't find the headroom for the CD27 on the specs page at www.capedory.org, but I'm pretty sure it's the same as the 25D, which is 5' 11".

Sorry to hear that the 28 was in such bad shape. But the 27 is a better boat in many ways--the "purest" Alberg shape and perhaps the best sailing of the Cape Dorys.

Keep lookin'

--Joe

nowell · February 26, 2009, 10:25:54 PM

Love my Vega, got her for just shy of 10k. 5'11" headroom, but as someone said (I think on here), that they heard from an old salt:

"I do 2 things below decks and neither require me to be standing up"

As everyone else said, 30k is alot. Personally, I would try and get something >=20k and use the rest for upgrades/kitty. Even then if I was going to the 20k range the boat better be in darn nice shape.

Just keep pounding the searches, its bound to come along!

Also, +1 on the "Good Old Boat" mag, I just started mine and love it!

chris2998 · February 26, 2009, 10:36:24 PM

yeah after posting this I was thinking 30 gran is a butt load and I think people here in Louisiana just expect to get rich off of there junk. I'm done with that broker, trying to find another around here and if not going to FL this summer anyways so.
I would love to find something in the 20k range, the boats I looked at today really were just junk I can't understand how these owners expect to get what there asking but I guess they will find some dumb fool to pay that. Simply put this guy didn't have any boats worth a **** after the last boat which was I think the 4th I was like this is it no more boats. This guy doesn't have **** and I tell you what I looked at these 4 boats in less then an hour and that just tells you they sure were JUNK. The wet snail 32 I looked at I spent over an hour on it looking through it.

Thanks Guys back to looking again but I must say it is a little disapointing but at the same time fun searching for you're first boat and learning about the other boats out there in the process. BTW Thanks I will have to go to my local barnes and noble and see if I can find the good ole boat magazine

Thanks,
Chris

s/v Faith · February 26, 2009, 10:42:59 PM

Chris,

If you follow the link in the post above, you can see the adds they have posted.

If you go to their web site, you can get a free issue (they usually send out the current month).

chris2998 · February 26, 2009, 11:10:50 PM

cool thanks yeah I was just browsing there sailboats for sale on there site.

Tim · February 26, 2009, 11:22:27 PM

Yep couldn't help but look myself, though I have no business doing so ;)
One you don't see around much caught my eye and I know that someone on this board will think she has "sweet" lines ;D

Here's a link

http://classicsailboat.image-sense.com/

chris2998 · February 26, 2009, 11:31:20 PM

Tim I know I was looking at this boat as wel,l very nice lines

newt · February 27, 2009, 12:38:40 AM

Welcome to boat shopping Chris. The trick is to know what you can fix and what you cannot. For me a head that smells like poop is usually an easy fix, although not a nice one. The hose is usually saturated with smell and has to be replaced with proper hose. But other things need more than my skills- and a good survey will tell the difference. The bilge water is not exactly a deal breaker, as long as you can tell what is in the bilge and were it came from. Fresh water or sea water? Oil or water? etc.... You get my drift.

CharlieJ · February 27, 2009, 08:07:10 AM

LOL- Tim- that's a Rhodes design- that sheer line is a dead giveaway ;D ;D

Captain Smollett · February 27, 2009, 08:23:43 AM

Ooooo.....Springy.

Beautiful boat. Someone is going to be a lucky owner of that one. Rich history, too.

nowell · February 27, 2009, 09:29:52 AM

Just to add on, I did a quick search on YachtWorld, putting in a price of 100 to 30k, and selected the "Gulf Coast" region, and "All Sail". Came up with 150 results ;D

Where in LA are you at? Its not that far of a drive from the Houston area. I know I have done New Orleans in just under 5 hours. My boat is about another 45 mins past, but if you ever want to spend a weekend shopping in Houston, i'll be happy to put you up there.

chris2998 · February 27, 2009, 11:11:50 AM

The head did smell like poop but just over all it wasn't a boat I was interested in.
I like the sc 31 the cape dory 28-31 I really like the 31 I think it is in Jackson FL but is to much maybe it will come down. There are a bunch of others I like I can't remember the names i really need to be writing them down. Thats another thing I brought a note pad along and after I looked at these boats I still wrote down everything I could about them even though I wasn't interested in them still gave me some practice.

I'm about 40 miles north of New Orleans and looking on yachtworld on the Gulf Coast is what I was just about to do after looking around on here.
I work with a guy who has his stinkpot somewhere over in New Orleans I need to ask him where his marina is maybe go walk down there looking at boats.

I would just jump in the car and start looking on the gulf coast but after Hurricane Katrina hit there I thought most of those boat were blown away but that was 4 years ago so there's got to be some marinas that have rebuilt.

I can now say after looking at the owner owned boat and working with a broker I think maybe going through a owner is better because you are on more a personal level you know? I just had a much better experience although I could be wrong this maybe not the case with all owners. I tried asking the broker some about the boat and he had no clue or just wasn't a very good broker and I don't think he was. I try not to judge people but I judge right a few weeks ago when I spoke with him on the phone but thought why not give em a try.

Thanks guys,
Chris

nowell · February 27, 2009, 05:51:43 PM

Hey Chris, check this beauty out!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Custom-Gaff-rigged-Yawl-1773528/Madisonville/LA/United-States

Just don't tell Aquila, she gets jealous sometimes!

chris2998 · February 27, 2009, 08:54:08 PM

want to buy a 37ft Hunter for a $1.00 dollar?? http://gulfport.craigslist.org/boa/1041124673.html

chris2998 · February 27, 2009, 08:56:33 PM

Quote from: nowell on February 27, 2009, 05:51:43 PM
Hey Chris, check this beauty out!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Custom-Gaff-rigged-Yawl-1773528/Madisonville/LA/United-States

Just don't tell Aquila, she gets jealous sometimes!

How do you find these finds?? I need to learn to use this dang yachtworld thing better. Madisonville well I was just over there in that area getting a haircutt today.

TomRay · February 28, 2009, 12:10:43 PM

Quote from: s/v Faith on February 13, 2009, 06:54:04 PM
One fact in dealing with a broker, you are going to pay more for the boat....

They will also tell you that the seller will pay the commission.... who is bringing the checkbook to the table?

I have only been selling boats for a little over 5 years now, but haven't yet encountered a buyer willing to pay more than a boat was worth just because it was listed with a brokerage. Buyers these days have lots of resources, and usually have a pretty good idea what a boat is worth. I have seen plenty of owners who want to believe that I can magically produce those buyers, and who want to be paid what their boat is worth when it is sold. They want a service and are not willing to pay for it. I have learned not to bother listing those boats, and just tell people who want to net what a boat is worth to sell it themselves.

TomRay · February 28, 2009, 12:12:23 PM

Quote from: Lynx on February 19, 2009, 08:42:03 AM
Take a gun and shoot them in the back. All they deserve.

It is very rare to find and honest one.

That's pretty harsh. Were you being honest when you said you would pay me to store your trailer in my driveway? Because you're a bit behind...

s/v Faith · February 28, 2009, 09:09:25 PM

Quote from: TomRay on February 28, 2009, 12:10:43 PM
Quote from: s/v Faith on February 13, 2009, 06:54:04 PM
One fact in dealing with a broker, you are going to pay more for the boat....

They will also tell you that the seller will pay the commission.... who is bringing the checkbook to the table?
I have only been selling boats for a little over 5 years now, but haven't yet encountered a buyer willing to pay more than a boat was worth just because it was listed with a brokerage.

Agreed, However there are often (usually) a 'bottom' price a seller will accept. If there is no commission to consider then that bottom price can be paid by a buyer at a price that does not include the commission.

QuoteBuyers these days have lots of resources, and usually have a pretty good idea what a boat is worth.

Just because a deal closes at a price does not mean the boat was worth what was paid. I know a man who bought a (IMHO) $500 boat for $5000 because the broker (Mid size, NC) told him he could not do any better. Does this mean the opposite is not true? No, of course not. However I believe that the best advocate for a boat buyer is the boat buyer. The exceptions are rare enough that I believe it is fair to paint in broad stokes when talking about the industry.

QuoteI have seen plenty of owners who want to believe that I can magically produce those buyers, and who want to be paid what their boat is worth when it is sold.

Granted. I would also say that the broker often assumes the unfortunate position of having to give a seller a reality check. I will say that the broker is really unnecessary in this role, as the market does a great job of rewarding those with unrealistic expectations.... There boats tend to sit and rot.

QuoteThey want a service and are not willing to pay for it. I have learned not to bother listing those boats, and just tell people who want to net what a boat is worth to sell it themselves.

That is a good position, and I commend you for it. I will say that in my experience your view is the minority position among the brokers with whom I am familiar.

I would say that the brokers role in selling a 'sailfar' size boat is often more of an obstruction then a help. The simple fact of the math would explain it well. Some (many?, most?) brokers will take a listing, and hope for the best. If I am selling a $5k 25' boat, and list it with the same broker selling a $50k 40' boat, which boat's buyer is likely to get more attention? Who's boat is the broker most likely to aggressively market? There is no insult in the simple reality that the $5000 commission is a bigger incentive then the $500 commission. Accordingly, many I talk to, and read of report feeling blown off by listing brokers of SailFar size boats. I wish that this were not the case. I hate to hear of people being sold a bill of goods (not that all brokers are dishonest, but there is often a reason for the suspicion).

When shopping a few years ago 2 different brokers on 2 different boats I dealt with were (charitable to say) less then helpful. One, I spoke with about a gutted Allmand 31 swore that the asking price of $35k was reasonable. When pressed he cited 3 other boats advertised on Yachtworld..... at similar prices. None of course were gutted, but if I were inclined I am quite sure he would have sold me the boat for $35k.

Another case, I came across a thoroughly beaten OI36. The bowsprit had literally rotted and fallen off on the dock.... obvious years of neglect showed me a cruising boat that had cleanly been the victim of a bad relationship and had suffered for it. When I asked about the price, the broker told me with a straight face that the asking price was $50k. When I pressed him on it, he claimed he was thinking of another boat and that it was $30k (IIRC). Before even discussing it, he said he thought it could be had for $22,500.00. Now was he woefully incompetent>? Was he deserving of his %10? IF so, which number should his 10% be based on? The sales price or the other prices he made up>?

Look, I know there are good brokers. I have worked with them, one sea-trial and delivery I did was a complete mess, and the buyer was ready to pay too much. The broker, a local guy who did it part time was a great guy and actually undercut his own commission in helping the buyer pay less. He was just a fellow boater, making a couple bucks doing something he enjoyed. I bet you are one of those guys too. Otherwise you would probably not be posting on this site..... ;) The unfortunate reality is that there are many who have come to believe that there are much less brokers like you, and more like the others.

Fairwinds,

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Any Advices on dealing with Yacht Brokers??