Any Advices on dealing with Yacht Brokers??

[chris2998]

s/v faith,

Good write up, what I have just read that you wrote felt like the broker i dealt with on Thursday which was full of BS and finally when I could get him to come down off his high chair and talk to me like a human being he really didn't know much at all, just a lake sailor, if even that. I'm not gonna go on thinking all brokers are like this but i'm sure there are alot out there, all there for is to be used to look at boats and if they don't have what I like, drop em and move onto the next guy and keep on with my searching. I just can't stand that sweet talk like this broker and other car sales man do dam does it get under my skin LOL

Chris

[TomRay]

If I am selling a $5k 25' boat, and list it with the same broker selling a $50k 40' boat, which boat's buyer is likely to get more attention?  Who's boat is the broker most likely to aggressively market?  There is no insult in the simple reality that the $5000 commission is a bigger incentive then the $500 commission.  Accordingly, many I talk to, and read of report feeling blown off by listing brokers of SailFar size boats.

When people come to me wanting to sell a $5k "sailfar-appropriate" boat, the first thing I do is tell them we have a minimum commission of $2,000, and they're trying to kill a fly with a shotgun. That usually ends the discussion, and I send them off with a few suggestions on free/cheap ways to sell their boat themselves.

Most of my sales have been boats between $15,000 and $50,000. If I have to choose between devoting my time to someone looking at a $20k boat and someone else looking at a $120k boat, I'll consider not only the different size of the commissions, but also the likelihood of making a sale. A $2k commission that comes in is better than a $12k commission that doesn't materialize.

[s/v Faith]

.......When people come to me wanting to sell a $5k "sailfar-appropriate" boat, the first thing I do is tell them we have a minimum commission of $2,000, and they're trying to kill a fly with a shotgun. That usually ends the discussion, and I send them off with a few suggestions on free/cheap ways to sell their boat themselves.......

  Grog to you for this.  If everyone in the industry did so, there would be far fewer bad experiences like what Chirs has related.   :)

[Gus]

Chris: walk the docks, the right boat will find you sooner or later. I have never tried a broker, but I think 30K its a lot of money if you ask me. Walk the docks, talk to owners, a proud skipper will show you his boat. Skip the middle man, and when the right boat finds you, get a good surveyor to check the boat out, and that's it.

[dnice]

I think the problem is the same with any service industry.
Its a convenience based service.

So the "target audience" is people who are either incapable of doing the work themselves, or they are too lazy/stupid to do the work themselves.
Its not the brokers fault, its just how the service industry works. It makes sense that the majority of brokers will initially assume you are a moron and try to sell you poop you don't need, or they'll do their best to overcharge you initially, if you agree to it they win, If you don't then they have the option to either smarten up and deal with you like a human, or simply wait for the next dummy to come along. The lack of respect for their clients is inherent to their occupation.

I think there are 2 things that separate sailfar folks from other sailors out there, one is we are not rich :)
and 2 is we prefer to do things for ourselves, to put the work in and reap the rewards, that sort-of stuff.
Using a broker just doesn't usually fit our profile.

Of course, Sometimes we have to deal with a broker, like when we are in the 'just looking' phase of boat buying, or if its a broker that has the boat we want. The majority of the time, we will end up feeling disrespected and it will reinforce our sense of self-sufficiency.

Obviously there are exceptions, not every broker is a bad guy. But i think, in general, finding a sailfar person to advocate using a broker would be next to impossible.

[chris2998]

I've walked the docks at a local marina but there wasn't really much being sold and the ones that were for sale were being sold by the broker I was dealith with. but I'm gonna keep checking back every couple of weeks and see what I can see.

I got an email from a old high school buddy who works at a yacht club in Gulfport and hopefully he can tell me of some marinas down there I can go and walk the docks and see what I can find..

Thanks,
Chris

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd also check the back of Good Old Boat magazine and their website, since they have a fairly good selection of decent boats.  There are also publications like Points East or Latitiude 38 that have a boat classifieds section.

[chris2998]

Good Old Boat magazine I just orderd a copy of it.

Can anyone tell me have you heard of a boat yard around Lake Ocochowee FL ahh hard to spell it called Glades shipyard and indiantown shipyard?? I was told by someone to go check it out that theresalot of good boa deal in that yard.

Thanks
Chris

[CharlieJ]

I've heard of Indiantown. Know nothing about it however.

Chris have you looked at SailingTexas.com? Lots of boats listed there.

[TomRay]

Good Old Boat magazine I just orderd a copy of it.

Can anyone tell me have you heard of a boat yard around Lake Ocochowee FL ahh uff to spell it called Galdes shipyard and indiantown shipyard?? I was told by someone to go check it out that theresalot of good boa deal in that yard.

Thanks
Chris

It's Okeechobee. Indiantown is where neglected boats go to die. For the most part they're cheap because they are project boats in a remote location far from open water or anything else. So yeah, it could be just the kind of place for people here to find a suitable project. ;)

[chris2998]

Someone I know told me about it he said the same thing some boats are absolute JUNK but this guy has found some really good deals on boats and I think it was at a place called Glades.

yes I have looked at sailing texas and try and check back there every week or so.

thanks,
Chris

[mrb]

I think the problem is the same with any service industry.
Its a convenience based service.

So the "target audience" is people who are either incapable of doing the work themselves, or they are too lazy/stupid to do the work themselves.
Its not the brokers fault, its just how the service industry works. It makes sense that the majority of brokers will initially assume you are a moron and try to sell you poop you don't need, or they'll do their best to overcharge you initially, if you agree to it they win, If you don't then they have the option to either smarten up and deal with you like a human, or simply wait for the next dummy to come along. The lack of respect for their clients is inherent to their occupation.

In my humble oppinion the above paragraph shows what is broke and wrong in todays good old USA    A service business worker is not there to judge clients as stupid lazy or any other derogatory name.  The customer is the person who makes it possible to buy his family the food on their table as as such should be treated with respect.  Just my oppinion.
Melvin

_{(edit to close quote tags at the end of 'dnice's' original quote... s/v Faith)}

[Sonnie]

I find it funny how some of you folks are really slamming brokers because you feel like they don't treat you with respect. Guess what - If you are just using the broker as a "tool" to help you window shop, or to get a feel of what boat you are interested in buying (telling them you are "ready to buy", but meanwhile you know you won't buy anything for a year, and you'll buy from a private seller at best, or be thinking about "shooting the broker in the back" at worst) - How would you feel if you where the broker?

***Brokers are people too*** Maybe if you treated them with the same respect that you expect, there wouldn't be so many bad experiences.

In fact, many brokers are sailors (yes, some are used car salesmen who last sailed a Laser at summer camp), but easy to see the difference. Would you talk about shooting your dock-neighbor or one of your hardcore Wednesday night race-crew in the back, would you waste their time and think nothiong of it? Because a lot of brokers are sailors who have chosen to make a living while still being involved with something they enjoy - believe me, being a successful salesman for most of my life, there is MUCH more money to be made in other industries. I choose to sell boats because I have a passion for them and enjoy the company of (most) of the people involved with them.

[dnice]

I find it funny how some of you folks are really slamming brokers because you feel like they don't treat you with respect. Guess what - If you are just using the broker as a "tool" to help you window shop, or to get a feel of what boat you are interested in buying (telling them you are "ready to buy", but meanwhile you know you won't buy anything for a year, and you'll buy from a private seller at best, or be thinking about "shooting the broker in the back" at worst) - How would you feel if you where the broker?

***Brokers are people too*** Maybe if you treated them with the same respect that you expect, there wouldn't be so many bad experiences.

In fact, many brokers are sailors (yes, some are used car salesmen who last sailed a Laser at summer camp), but easy to see the difference. Would you talk about shooting your dock-neighbor or one of your hardcore Wednesday night race-crew in the back, would you waste their time and think nothiong of it? Because a lot of brokers are sailors who have chosen to make a living while still being involved with something they enjoy - believe me, being a successful salesman for most of my life, there is MUCH more money to be made in other industries. I choose to sell boats because I have a passion for them and enjoy the company of (most) of the people involved with them.

Sonnie,

There is no doubt many brokers out there with a passion for sailing who would like nothing better than to help get somebody into a boat they will love. I am sure they exist, I just haven't run into one :)

I have very limited experience, so obviously I can't speak for everyone and my opinion does not encompass the entire scale of brokers out there.

I just think, it is very difficult to respect somebody who is trying to sell me a catalina when I asked to look at a cape dory. it is very difficult to respect a person who figures my business is a waste of time, my tiny little bit of money will not help him enough to be worth any effort...

I may not know a whole lot about sailing or sailboats, but I do know a thing or two about being a salesman (as well as a customer)... I know that if a person is just "window shopping" it is my job to present them with information and/or products that will either provoke them to make a purchase, or at the very least, come back to see more at a later time. It is not my job to try and sell them something for twice the normal price just because they look like a kook with money. It is also not my job to sell something to somebody that they are not asking for and they do not need, just to make a sale. Any good salesman with respect for his clients will make an impression on me and there will be no confusion, those are the ones I would deal with (and have yet to encounter).

A broker, or car salesman, or any other salesman, who thinks that just because this person is not actually going to buy something today, then they are not worth his time or effort... is not a person I would ever give my respect to, and at the very least, not a very good salesman.

Again, I am sure there are good brokers out there, and god bless em! I have even talked to a few who have been helpful and respectful. The problem is the majority of my experiences have not been good. As a result, I would much prefer going through private sellers and avoiding brokers like the plague.

That is my opinion, based on my experiences.

And honestly, I've bought plenty of used cars before (like 12 or so) and came to the same conclusion a long time ago about those... I really don't see how yacht brokers are any different. Yeah there are those who are respectful and decent and love what they do... but as far as I can tell, they are few and far between.


PS: Apparently all the good brokers are either already a member of this forum or will be soon :) so it is safe to assume we are not talking about you when we say bad things about brokers in general.

[AdriftAtSea]

Unfortunately, like any industry, it only takes a few bad apples in the barrel to tarnish the reputation of the rest.  There are some good brokers out there, but more often, at least in my experience, many are looking for the big sale and not interested in helping you if you're not looking for 40'+ boat.   The same is true of realtors, used car salesmen, and other sales staff in general, especially those that work on a commission basis. 

What a lot of these people don't seem to realize, is that being nice to people just starting out looking at smaller boats, houses, cars, is a good idea, because these same people are often the ones that will come back and buy their next larger boat, house, car...and often have friends who would also be interested in buying a boat, house, or car.  By pissing them off—treating them poorly—they pretty much guarantee they'll not get any future sales or referrals. 

I don't know about you... but when someone treats me well, I'm happy to say so... and will tell anybody who asks.  If someone treats me badly, I'll tell everyone I know... even if they don't ask. :)  Which would you rather have, someone making the occasional referral, or someone telling people to avoid you at all costs...

Last spring, I was helping a friend look for a boat to buy.  I called and e-mailed at least two dozen brokers concerning boats I thought were suitable for her and wanted to setup visits to see the boats.  Of the phone calls and e-mails, only SEVEN were returned.  Three of them were to say that the boats in question had been sold or were under offer, the other four were calls asking as to when would be possible to visit.  Granted, these boats were in the $20,000-30,000 range, and not real big ticket items, but you'd think that a possible commission of $2000-3000 would be at least worth responding to.  Of the brokers in question, I think eight are still in business, and seven of the eight were the ones that responded to me.  Hmmm...coincidence, I think not.

She ended up buying a boat from one of my marina neighbors. He's not a sailor and his cousin gave him a Cal 27, so he asked me if I knew anyone who might be interested.  No broker commissions, no hassles. 

[chris2998]

dnice I would have to agree with you 100% I couldn't have said it better

My one experience was like a used car sales man I really do believe the guy thought I was 21 years old, yes i do look very young but really I'm 29. He treated me like some dumb poor high school kid and even mentioned like maybe you should talk to you're parents and asking them for a LOAN for more then 30 gran to buy you're first boat. I was like what the **** how old does this guy really think I am. It doesn't matter if I'm 40 or 16 for someone to treat me like that H*LL no. I have emailed another broker who seemd ok well he emailed me back once and haven't heard from him again no twice but at least didn't treat me like a freaking idiot and didn't waste my time like this guy did.
I told him everything I wanted in a boat and he seemd to act like he knew what I needed.

I was thinking like dude you don't know what the h*ll I need, that just blew my mind I will never use him again and will never recommend him to anyone, all he had to say is sorry I don't have what you're looking for and I would have shaked his hand and said thanks for helping me and I would have recommended him to someone else that he could have helped out but not now. I'll give another broker a try but the second I see him wasteing my time I'm gone.

I can say this though I found a cape dory 33 it was in Florida, I emailed the broker asking questions about it and he emailed me back fast in answering my questions he even emailed me back again 2 weeks later to make sure i got his email. I told him I'd probally be coming down there this summer to do some boat shopping and if the boat is still available that I would like to take a closer look at it. He was very friendly and I even asked for a certain boat and he said he would put the word out, he seemd like a pretty nice guy, he has not sold me a boat but just by being nice like he was I'd recommend him to someone else looking. It's easy being friendly to people it doesn't cost you anything,  but it gets you're name out there for people in the future to use you. So yeah there are some nice brokers out there but I dought there is all that many.

Chris