Purchased Safety, EPIRBs and the Like

[Bluenose]

In the lively debate on "Cruising and Firearms" EPIRBs were mention as similar to firearms for "being prepared". I didn't comment on EPIRB's in that thread because it would have been way off topic and a huge rant to boot.

But being that this is, I think, the home for vents and rants. I thought I would post my thoughts.

It is my opinion that it is a very selfish choice to outfit a boat with "safety" devices that require someone else to risk their life at my own expense. I recently read an article by Roger Taylor that really sums up this idea that it is our right to be rescued.

At the same time we are increasingly vociferous about our 'rights'. We all have a million and one 'rights' to just about everything you care to name: food, shelter, good jobs, pensions, education, televisions, whatever. You name it, we have a 'right' to it. We are now so habituated to assuming our 'rights' that, I am sure, many ocean going sailors also assume the 'right' to be rescued, should they hit trouble, without a second's reflection or hesitation

And a bit later on in the article

An assumption of the right to be rescued is a poor starting point for the ocean sailor. It is my view that much of modern so-called 'safety' equipment, in particular the Emergency Position Indicating Rescue Beacon - the EPIRB - insidiously militates against the proper preparation of yachts and their crews for ocean sailing. Its unspoken message is that at the press of a button help will be on its way. It is the ultimate safety net. It should not be. The ultimate safety net should be the uncompromising preparation and seaworthiness of the yacht to be sailed, and the proper mental attitude of its crew. My point here is that a good proportion of the effort and expense of fitting out a yacht for the sea these days goes into gadgets perceived as 'safety' equipment - EPIRBs, radios, satellite telephones, in other words equipment designed to help the sailor communicate his plight

I contend that assuming the right to be rescued is a poor starting point for any sailer.

I have always sailed with the idea that the risk is all mind. I don't really think there is that much risk as we have a very sound boat but in the end if I really screw up I pay the ultimate price. That being losing my life. In some ways the myriad of "safety" device is sort of panacea that provides an unrealistic sense of security.

One of our rules of sailing is the 50-50-50 rule. If we are 50 yards from shore and the water is 50 degrees we have about a 50% chance of making it to shore. Our season is from early May til late October. In the extreme edges of our sailing season we are often the only boat for miles around. The simple fact is that if we go into the water we die. Safety devices like EPIRB's and even life vests will just make it easier to find and recover our bodies.

This fact was really brought home to me when I took a sailing instructors class during May at Port Townsend. I ended up deciding that being US Sailing instructor wasn't my gig but not before "getting" to perform the safety swim test. We had to swim something like 25 yards, fully clothed, out to our instructor's boat, tie a bowline around our waste, put on our life vest and swim back to the dock. Let's just start by saying I don't ever want to do that again. In my judgment if the distance had been double I doubt everyone in our class would have made it. Even so, A number of participants needed assistance climbing up onto the swim platform on the dock which isn't close to what it would take to scramble back onto a boat. I would say that anyone boating in the Puget Sound should perform their own, supervised, swim test to figure out their own safety limits. And of course find a way to stay in their boat.

Rescues, both coastal and on the ocean are becoming more and more frequent and invariably boating regulations will be enacted to compensate for the lack of ownership for our responsibility as "Captains" of our own vessels. If we can't demonstrate competency by continually needing the "safety net" of rescue the powers that be will try to regulate "competency " for us. And with the marina industry marketing the high profit rescue devices systems as require "safety" devices it is hard for me to imagine a different outcome.

Boy won't boating be fun then.

(Fire away, I have my extra thick skin on 8))

[Godot]

A perfectly valid and reasonable choice.  And I agree, completely.  At least in theory.  Depending on your situation, it may or may not work in practice.

The good is that you are taking responsibility for your own actions.  You do dangerous stuff (and offshore sailing is, in fact, dangerous ... which is why we spend so much time and money preparing and why this is even an issue), and you take responsibility for the possible outcome.  Who can argue with that?

The answer to my rhetorical question is, of course, your loved ones.  Anyone left behind.  Folks who, whether they promise to or not, are likely to call the coast guard when your butt doesn't show up on time.  So, IF a search is likely upon your disappearance, then the most responsible thing to do would be to make it as easy as possible to find you.

So, to make your plan work, the folks at home need to be cut off from having too much info.  Don't file a float plan.  Don't tell them when you plan to leave and arrive.  And specifically instruct them that they are never to call for help on your behalf, and that if you seem to disappear, it is only because you settled on some far away tropical island with lots of pretty, half naked girls, and you absolutely don't want to be disturbed!

[Amgine]

Actually, that's somewhat my case. I have discussed the issue with my family, and I've asked them not to alert the Coast Guard or request rescues/searches. But I'm also going to carry a Spot and have a sat phone, because nothing is set in stone and some emergencies are pretty survivable while others are not.

There's a lot of thought which has gone into these decisions. Just because they're not the same ones you've reached doesn't make them better or worse - just different. I'm also an organ donor.

[Captain Smollett]

It is my opinion that it is a very selfish choice to outfit a boat with "safety" devices that require someone else to risk their life at my own expense.

In one of the 'discussions' here at the marina with a fellow sailor and reasonably experienced cruiser, this topic came up in a roundabout way.  I was flabbergasted by his remarks.

The call for rescue was mentioned as a convenience - something he would heartily and gladly do if the ride offshore got too uncomfortable.  We are not talking dire, life threatening circumstances; calling for rescue was literally mentioned in the context of comfort in rough conditions (that truthfully, the boat might be or certainly could be riding quite safely).  30-40 kts in a Morgan 41 OI, anyone?

Seriously, I don't think you will get much opposition on your position on this particular forum.

I'll add some fuel to the fire, though, just in case:

There are documented cases where vessels carrying EPIRB were in fact lost with loss of life.  My favorite example is the Windjammer Cruises ship Fantome that was lost off Honduras in hurricane Mitch with (I think) 32 officers and crew aboard.  The Cap'n was on sat phone with the Miami office giving a sit-rep when the connection went dead.  There were two EPIRBs aboard - one that was outside rigged to deploy automatically.  Neither deployed or were activated.

Another thing I take issue with, at least a little on principle, is the assertion that ocean sailing in a smallish boat is 'dangerous.'  I guess the term dangerous should be applied on a relative scale.

Crossing an ocean on a small boat is statistically MUCH safer than driving a car on any American city highway.  So why not the outcry about the bad driving that causes most of the deaths?  The answer is people are familiar enough with driving in heavy traffic that they accept the risk.  Ocean sailing is just plain nuts in most people's eyes.

Today my 6 year old daughter (and her be-4-next-week brother) were boogie-boarding in 4 ft surf.  I mentioned to my wife that if my sister saw us, she'd have a conniption, since she read some article or story about a guy boogie-boarding who fell, got injured and is now paralyzed.  "Don't do THAT" she told me when I told her I found a board for my daughter for $1.

Face it - eating breakfast can kill you, as my wife mentioned in response documented cases of people choking on grapes.  Life = risk.  It's a CONSTANT struggle for basic survival.  Maybe sailing an ocean IS more dangerous than some things, but the bottom line is the bottom line.

Fear sells.  In the last 20 or so years, we've seen a whole "safety industry" and its attendant psychology spring up, and they use  fear to sell their products.  It's like insurance, though.  Rather than weighing the risk, hedging your bets and taking your own precautions, we have gotten to the point of trying to put the responsibility on the 'other guy' (insurance company, safety gear, certification committee, etc).  They've somehow convinced most people to bet that they WILL have an accident/equipment failure rather than focusing on ways to mitigate causes.

Luck favors the prepared.  But preparation and hard work getting a boat ready does not sell products or fill advertising space in magazines.

Okay, so MY rant is off now....

[Godot]

In one of the 'discussions' here at the marina with a fellow sailor and reasonably experienced cruiser, this topic came up in a roundabout way.  I was flabbergasted by his remarks.

The call for rescue was mentioned as a convenience - something he would heartily and gladly do if the ride offshore got too uncomfortable.  We are not talking dire, life threatening circumstances; calling for rescue was literally mentioned in the context of comfort in rough conditions (that truthfully, the boat might be or certainly could be riding quite safely).  30-40 kts in a Morgan 41 OI, anyone?

THAT is the attitude that is going to get all of us in trouble. That is the kind of person who should never be outside of TowBoatUS range.  "Why worry about the weather?  Why worry about the condition of the boat?  If things get rough, the coast guard will come and get us and we'll have a great story to tell at the yacht club bar.  Too bad about the boat, though.  But we have insurance!"

Another thing I take issue with, at least a little on principle, is the assertion that ocean sailing in a smallish boat is 'dangerous.'  I guess the term dangerous should be applied on a relative scale.

Crossing an ocean on a small boat is statistically MUCH safer than driving a car on any American city highway.  So why not the outcry about the bad driving that causes most of the deaths?  The answer is people are familiar enough with driving in heavy traffic that they accept the risk.  Ocean sailing is just plain nuts in most people's eyes.

You know, not believing that sailing is dangerous might account for the "reasonably experienced cruiser" in your story.  Loss of life can and does happen.  Loss of boats happens quite a bit.  I like to watch the logs from the Single Handed TransPac and the Jester Challenge, and there is often enough some type of disaster that falls on a relatively small sampling of boats.

And I'm curious your claim that crossing oceans in a small boat is safer statistically than driving in heavy traffic.  What data points are you using?  Hour on the road versus hour out of sight of land?  Loss of ocean going boats annually versus cars?   Minor injuries? Damage? Death?  Not that I'm saying that driving is safe.  After all, we have seat belts, air bags, crash safety tests, and insurance for a reason.  But statistics are all about the numbers and I have no idea what numbers you are referring to.

Life is risk.  heck, two nights ago someone was murdered across the street from my house.  City living is risky.  My mother-in-law is vocally against motorcycles after spending years working as an ER nurse.  Motorcycles are risky.  Some kids went to China and were quarantined for having a temperature .2 degrees above average normal.  Apparently, breathing is risky. 

I don't see how working a small boat, in big cold seas, with lots of heavy moving parts and a strong likelihood of fatigue, seasickness, and lack of sleep  could be anything but risky and dangerous.  As with everything we do, we attempt to balance and mitigate that risk as much as reasonably possible.  That is why we prepare.  But to consider it anything but dangerous is naive. 

Is it worse than mountain climbing? SCUBA diving?  Stunt flying?  Mountain biking?  Downhill skiing?  Martial Arts competition?  Gymnastics?  Roofing?  Lumberjacking?  Soldiering?  I don't know.  They are all worthwhile pursuits, and they all have an aspect of danger.  You don't stop doing something because it is dangerous.  If you did, we might all spend our lives locked in our bathrooms (oops, maybe not, as I understand the bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house).  But recognizing the danger is point one in preparing to handle it.

[TJim]

Sounds good to me. Could you get a posit on that island?? TJim

[Captain Smollett]

Adam, you and I are saying the same thing in different ways.

I am NOT saying there is no risk in ocean sailing...I am saying that there are ways to manage the risk that (a) non-sailors don't accept and (b) those selling 'safety gear' ignore in their endless claims of "you need x to be safe."

X product or Y government agency doesn't make you safe; preparation and experience makes you safe.  As safe as can be in the REAL world where sometimes no matter WHAT you have or have done or know, bad things happen.

That last statement applies to just about everything - driving, flying, walking across the street, eating in a restaurant (or at home for that matter), etc.

To single sailing out as somehow MORE inherently dangerous, just because the risk mitigation methodologies are less known, is just as disingenuous as if one WERE to try to claim sailing is not dangerous at all.

[LooseMoose]

Over the years I have covered quite a few blue water miles and never had the chance or need  to call for rescue or even call for assistance of any sort while on passage. Part of that is being prepared and not allowing myself to panic but another part of the matrix is that over the years I have simply been lucky... poop happens and sometimes you need help.

I've lost a mast on the way to Hawaii and sailed 1500 miles with a cobbled together rig, I had to rebuild a rudder in mid Atlantic which are the sort of disaster you can sort out and get through on your own... But friends of mine have been run down by ships, had their boats burn and sink and been hit by a whale none of which were of the with a bit of wire and some plywood patches can I fix this sort of thing... poop happens and when it does you want to be able to say ...HELP!

Mariners tend to help each other. I have diverted course more than once to aid a boat in trouble and one hopes that when the poop hits the fan someone will hopefully divert to assist me when I am in need. There is nothing romantic about dying at sea.

I don't carry an EPIRB as a get of of trouble cure all but as a "I've done everything humanly possible to save myself and I'm still in deep DOO DOO" as opposed to "Oops, I've run out of gas and need to be rescued. EPIRBS do have their place and as long as they are used for their real purpose there is nothing wrong with them.

So my point is by all means be prepared, be able to fix your boat and have the tools and skills needful to do so but it simply makes sense to carry flares and an EPIRB  or whatever other safety gear you can because no matter how well prepared you are there is a FUBAR situation that has your name on it waiting... If we are lucky that will never happen but it could and when it does that EPIRB or flares will be no bad thing...

Better yet with EPIRB's now costing in at less than $300 ( and PLB's costing even less) there is no longer a financial reason NOT to have one.

If you are sailing offshore get an Epirb or PLB... Be responsible and only use it as a last resort (as intended) and with any luck never ever find yourself in a situation that calls for its use.

Be safe.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[Bluenose]

For the sake of full disclosure, I am pained to admit that yesterday I managed, through immense stupidly, to pile Bolero onto one of the better marked reefs in the San Juan Islands.

To get her off in a timely manner, I hired a pull.

Not enough sleep last night to decide if that makes me a hypocrite or not, but I figure anyone as passionate and idealist as myself needs to be honest.

Bill

[Tim]

 :) Well you know the saying (or some more poetic version of it)

"If you haven't run aground, you haven't sailed"

[mrb]

So ,was it the reef at the entrance to Fishermans Bay?  Hope no damage to boat. 

[LooseMoose]

Just a quick note to mention that SPOT/Globalstar is giving a 100% rebate on the purchase of a SPOT PLB with the purchase of a two year subscription...http://findmespot.com/freespot/

We really like our SPOT as it allows for sending friends and family updates on your progress.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[Bluenose]

So ,was it the reef at the entrance to Fishermans Bay?  Hope no damage to boat. 

Sorry, I missed your post.

No not the entrance to Fisherman Bay. That would have been embarrassing, since you are right in front of town but not particularly painful or expensive.

My grounding occurred on the rocky, foul reef off of Yellow Island. Part of the Wasp Islands between Shaw Island and Orcas Island in the San Juan's.





I won't rehash the details here since that would drag this thread way off topic. But I did extensively discuss my stupidity on my blog.

Initial Post

Log Post of Grounding

Bolero Damage Report

What I do know for sure is that self rescue is our newest sailing passion. There were some items on our outfitting and todo list that have now been moved up big time. In addition we plan to "practice" running aground in various "safe" situations to help us develop skills and options. Two things that I was in short supply of during that fateful trip.

Not to mentioned some navigational guidelines to help prevent me from my own brilliance.

Cheers, Bill

[Amgine]

::chuckle:: Well, it'd been 11 years since the last time I went aground, on a beach just south of of the Port Townsend canal. But I managed to, very briefly, go aground last week. In this case it was nosing around looking for a place to anchor in the Fraser River Delta. I'd specifically chosen low tide as the time to go looking - both to know just how shallow it got on a neap tide, and so I'd get floated off quickly (assuming I didn't doe a complete number on myself.) So it shows I learnt a couple things since last time!

Of course, not being experienced in tidal swamps, I didn't realize they might go from 18' to nada in a boat length or two, and I screwed up by turning *downstream*, instead of up, when the depth sounder started its sudden climb. Suffice to say I found a mudbank and came to a squishy halt facing downstream.

With the motor at medium high revs in reverse (2700 rpm,) and rocking her side to side at the stern, we managed to slide out moving upstream in just a few minutes, and all was well.

Experience is also purchased, I suppose, and may be more valuable than the gadgets. For one thing, you gain the confidence that you can survive stupid mistakes (and embarrassment.)

[newt]

Coming into San Carlos Bay, off Ft. Myers, Florida at 0330. Low tide at 458, tired (sailing all day) and wondering what all the lights are ahead in the channel.  Turns out it was road construction- they were dredging a new channel, and filling the old one in. But the buoys were still in place! (my excuse anyway and I am sticking to it) Took us about 2 hours to get out of that one.
There are two kinds of sailors: Those that have gone aground and those that lie about it.

[Rick Westlake]

:) Well you know the saying (or some more poetic version of it)

"If you haven't run aground, you haven't sailed"

I have to laugh with this - because all my "first voyages" have included f***ups on my part ...

First time I took my first boat out of the slip, I spent an hour of docking practice - and fell overboard at my slip. :(

First time I took Bossa Nova off the trailer, I ran her aground upstream of the ramp (in a well-known shoal area) and took about 15 minutes getting off the bar and into deep-enough water.  With one of my colleagues and the marina manager watching.

I better not get another boat - God alone knows how I would hash-up that first voyage!  ::)

[Auspicious]

My most recent grounding is here. I'm now quite content with using the main anchor for kedging.

[newt]

There are two types of sailors - those that have gone aground and those that lie and say they haven't.