Anchor locker, rode and tackle stowage

[Frank]

On the anchor weight thing...That was just my opinion. Could Charlie or others who've spent longer periods out there add their thoughts to this.

[Gus]

Great ideas!! I'm thinking in glassing a PVC pipe straight to the storage under the V-berth. My problem its, how can I cap the pipe with the chain from the anchor comming out of it?

I have 2 anchors. I usually set one from the cockpit, and then I set my other one after the cockpit anchor sets (my boat doesnt really swings into the wind that easy) I use a bucket to store the line in the port cockpit locker. I can deploy that anchor in a hurry if I want to, and because I store the line in the bucket, it doesnt get all tangled up.

Gus

[AdriftAtSea]

Gus-

Cut a thin slot in the PVC pipe—the same thickness as a chain link, and then cut a similar slot in a PVC pipe cap that fits snugly over the PVC pip you're using as the chain pipe.  Then you can leave the chain sticking out by placing a link in the slot, and then drop the cap over the link.  This will effectively cap the chain pipe and prevent almost all water from getting in, since the chain link itself is blocking most of the slot.

[s/v Faith]

Gus-

Cut a thin slot in the PVC pipe—the same thickness as a chain link, and then cut a similar slot in a PVC pipe cap that fits snugly over the PVC pip you're using as the chain pipe.  Then you can leave the chain sticking out by placing a link in the slot, and then drop the cap over the link.  This will effectively cap the chain pipe and prevent almost all water from getting in, since the chain link itself is blocking most of the slot.

Yes, and if you really want to get fancy.....

  Screw a small eye into a hole drilled in the center of the cap.  Hang a small hook (like as ss 'S' hook you might hang a swing set seat on) and when cap it, the weight of the chain will keep the cap from getting lost.

[CharlieJ]

Frank- I agree totally. People talk about insurance for the boats- in my opinion the anchoring systems you have are your REAL insurance policies.

I'm for having an anchor that is five pounds lighter than the largest thing you can physically haul aboard and stow. On Tehani, which we figure at 7000 pounds all up when in cruising mode, we use a 22 pound Claw and 75 feet of chain on the bow. That's backed with 200 feet of 1/2 nylon.

On my tri at 35 feet, I carried a 35 pound plow with 100 feet of chain and then 200 feet nylon. PLus a pair of 20 pound High Tensile Danforths, each with 50 feet of chain and 200 feet nylon.

Both setups have served me well all along the east coast and all across the gulf coast. Of course were I to be cruising places with deeper anchorages I'd have to add more rode.

When away from home waters on a cruise we also carry  a 15 pound folding Northhill with chain and rode and we ALWAYS carry a 12 pound Hi Tensile danforth with IT'S chain and 200 feet of nylon as our second anchor. Both of those anchors only have 25 feet of chain on them though.

We don't have a windlass, so that 22 pounder and it's chain is about the top weight that Laura can haul onboard by herself if needed. If we had a windlass I MIGHT be tempted into a size larger anchor.

I've got a couple of High Tensile Danforths at 20 pounds, but they are physically too large to stow on Tehani- I tried them ;D

[CharlieJ]

AdriftAtSea- we also wrap a chunk of foam tightly around the last few links and jam them down into the deck pipe when we go offshore- that stops all but a very tiny amount of water from going below- I've found that when the bow gets stuck into a wave, even having that link captive lets more below than I want.

[AdriftAtSea]

Very true... For offshore use, that would be wise... but for coastal use or in the bay... a bit overkill.

[Gus]

Thanks for the ideas guys!! I can see another project in the near future! :)

[AdriftAtSea]

If you're going to use PVC pipe, use Schedule 80 pipe, since it is heavier wall than the normal Schedule 40 pipe and will take the abuse from the chain better.

[polecat]

Which type or model anchor roller did you use please? 

[Captain Smollett]

I don't have a 25, but a 35.  I'm building a custom roller per Charlie Jones' basic design.

No help to your question, of course.  Just basically pointing out that I am interested in this thread.  If I get the prototype finished soon (got the basic pieces cut out, I just need to set up my planer to finish it), I'll let you know how it goes.

[s/v Faith]

Re posted in reply to the question above.... (will merge the question into this thread).

Craig,

I seem to remember reading something about Manson Supreme anchors having a slight issue with some bow roller configurations (due to the roll bar).

  This is mostly bogus marketing.  The shank is a bit 'taller' then some other anchors, but it fits through my roller 'bail' just fine.  If you look at most roller installations you will see the majority of folks remove the bail anyway.

How has your Supreme worked out with your new bow roller?   I'll be building a custom bow roller for the A-30.  Are there any catches you can identify if building for the Supreme?

Can you make any further comments (beyond what you've posted in the past) about the performance of the Supreme?

  Any anchor will need some amount of 'underhang' under the roller to properly stow.  For my 25# supreme on my boat that was less then 4".  I would recommend going with the largest roller channel you can see on the bow.  My URM-4 is a great big piece of stainless, and gives me lots of surface area to through bolt, as well as a good size platform for the shank of the anchor to rest on.

 

I'm looking into getting a plow style anchor.  I'd like to get a plow to act as my "primary," but have not decided on a regular plow or the Supreme.

  I had a 25# genuine CQR that was to be my bower.  The thing has a great name, and millions of nights of good sleep to it's credit.  I personally think it receives poor treatment in anchor tests because it should be lowered, not thrown (an anchor should never be thrown).  Many many people have found different results then the paid testers.

  Having said that, I found the CQR to be a PITA to handle.  Probably not so bad on the roller, but I consistently pinched my fingers in the hinge, and handling that thing on the deck of a small boat was like wrestling a gorilla.  Somewow the 25#s felt more like 50 to me.  That was the main reason I looked at something else.

  I looked at the Bruce, another similar new generation anchor, and the  Manson Supreme.  The Bruce has a great reputation also, but you can't buy an original forged one unless you find a good one used.  The new cast ones are known to be brittle.... and rumored to not set as well.  The other new generation anchor was twice the price of the Manson when I priced it, and no better in terms of build quality or features.  They each argue that the other is a copy, and frankly I find the marketing of the 'R' to be obnoxious.  I probably would not buy it now even if the price were the same.... just because I don't want to feel like a sheep lead by crafty magazine write ups... (but it is probably just as good of an anchor).

 

Also, considering there will be times when this is the only 'big' anchor I have on board, would you think I really need a 35 lb Supreme, or could we get away with the 25 pounder?  I know bigger is generally better, anchor-wise, but 35 lb plus 60+ ft of chain without a windlass is a pretty good workout.  Thoughts?

  I would definitely go with the 30# or 35# anchor on your boat.  I believe the sizing charts are pretty accurate, and don't feel the need to 'upsize' but certainly would not want to go smaller.

  FWIW, I also feel like no anchor will do all things well.  I have an oversized fortress and if I could stow it I would probably have a bulwagga also.

[s/v Faith]

Here are a couple of pictures of the roller installed, before I added the bow cleats, and the bow pulpit.






Here is the same set up, after a few thousand miles of cruising and anchoring.....



  Very happy with the set up.  Would only change 1 thing, I set the anchor on the roller and adjusted for minimum hang over (to minimize the leverage).  I wish I had set it about 3/4" farther forward... there are some ways the anchor can twist to hit the bow when raising it.  With a bit more clearance I doubt it would be an issue.

[Captain Smollett]

Also, considering there will be times when this is the only 'big' anchor I have on board, would you think I really need a 35 lb Supreme, or could we get away with the 25 pounder?  I know bigger is generally better, anchor-wise, but 35 lb plus 60+ ft of chain without a windlass is a pretty good workout.  Thoughts?

  I would definitely go with the 30# or 35# anchor on your boat.  I believe the sizing charts are pretty accurate, and don't feel the need to 'upsize' but certainly would not want to go smaller.

  FWIW, I also feel like no anchor will do all things well.  I have an oversized fortress and if I could stow it I would probably have a bulwagga also.

Well, I will say that having had the 35# for two years now that raising it (plus some chain) is a bit of a workout...but the single biggest strain is pulling it OUT from the bottom.  Once it breaks free, hauling up is, well, not EASY, but not too bad either.

I anchored for four days in Charleston on the Manson alone when I was "advised" by another in the anchorage "do NOT set out one hook, it will never hold."  I also let out less scope than he recommended, going with my 'gut' on that  (about 170 ft in about 10 ft of water - he said not to dare set out less than about 220 ft even on two hooks).   This was SC pluff mud with diurnal tides.

Incidentally, he was on two VERY small (8 pounders?) danforths in tandem, which made me wonder.  His boat was a Catalina 30.

I've anchored the boat, in 1-2 kt currents, with the 35# Manson Supreme when the anchor did not even dig in....but kept the boat in position.  I imagine this was weight and any anchor of similar weight would have done.  The point being, of course, that I'm glad of my purchase overall.

The Manson 35# has already held in a variety of anchoring situations and just looks WAY oversize on the bow compared to many others here at the marina.

[Amgine]

Well, I lost an anchor for the first time - an original Bruce forged - about a week ago. I'm fairly sure it was my fault, too. I lowered it plus 30' of chain and 60' of nylon as a stern anchor at the far end of my bower's rode, then hauled myself forward. I didn't get nearly as far forward as I had expected I would with 90' off the stern.

The next day I dropped back to haul up the stern anchor, and about half the nylon came up. After a couple hours of messing around trying to get the anchor up we decided the chain was apparently wrapped on something, or under something, and we hadn't gotten any additional line hauled in despite literly winching the exhaust outlet under water. We cut the line.

We've replaced it with a bruce knock-off for the moment, and will be purchasing another anchor when we get back in - probably Ancora Latina. The experience has made me cautious about my two-anchor techniques, and I've pulled Hinz back off the shelf for some refreshing.

[s/v Faith]

Here is some more comments borrowed from the bow roller thread;

Where are you planning on storing her rode?  Are you going to use the original locker as set up?  Maybe drain it overboard like Geoff or Frank did?  What about 'pipe' it to right about where the factory water tank sits.  Nice and low.


Now if someone could just lead me through the whole pipe and locker part with pictures of course.

Shoot Tony I was hoping you would get yours done so I could copy it  ;)


I have pretty much resigned myself to filling in holes as they were not done properly and would be a place for core damage if left.  I guess I will probably fabricate a locker shelf with a drain, I would like to have something that could be removed and still be accessible from inside.

For what it is worth....  ( you know I was gonna say something...)   ;)


  I had planned two different designs... one I tried and was not happy with.  The other (thankfully) never got past the design stage.

  I think the standard Alberg drawn design is pretty functional. 

Some move (or propose moving) the rode aft to distribute the weight (sometimes going with a couple hundred feet of chain).  I like it in theory, but it had better work without a hitch in execution.  If the rode is stowed below decks you had better be able to get to it easily.  The more room it has (especially with chain / rope) the better.

  Our SOP was to raise anchor and leave the rode on deck for a little bit.  A rinse with a bucket left very little to need to drain. 

  I did use the extra volume of the locker to stow my extra rode, and my storm rode.  I kept them in bags so they would not tangle with the working rode....  after using it like this I do not think I will change it.  Might add a door to the locker at some point in the future but that is about it.

  -------------------------

In case anyone recalls my prior plan to divide the locker fore and aft with a small area for wet foul wx gear.. the mock up proved the idea unusable if not down right dumb.  Hope no one ever tries to borrow THAT one..  :P

[Capt. Tony]

To all others I'll admit this response is probably more skewed toward the Ariel/Commander crowd. 

To Craig, I recall reading that a chain 'likes' to fall against a considerably pitched floor to keep from piling and consequently tangling.  I have no practical, personal experience with this.  My experience is limited to 20ft of logging chain I pull stumps, fence posts and vehicles with.  Not very applicable to anchoring, huh?

So 50-80ft of chain in our factory locker is honky dory with you?  I guess that is still pretty close if not below the LWL.  I do like the idea of having additional rode, storm or otherwise, in bags ready for duty.  That is too much space to pile a little chain in the bottom of and otherwise neglect.   Is it rediculously unnecessary to direct the chain from the hawse to the storage area.  I just think if it's contained it would be easier to access the area for addtional rode and whatever else stores in a wet, smelly area(another thread entirely).  At the same time I don't want to fly in the face of the KISS principle.

To Tim, if you help me sell this O'Day and other assorted boat stuffs I will buy 50ft of chain post haste and get on it ASAP! 

[AdriftAtSea]

Generally, chain likes to have some room to fall or a decently sloped chain locker floor to slide down.  On my boat, the locker isn't really deep enough to work really well, and making a deeper chain locker is on my list of future projects. 

Also, I'd point out that scope of more than 8:1 is really of little benefit most of the time, as there is little change in the angle between the rode and the anchor after that point.  The only time I've seen scopes of greater than 8:1 be of any real use is when the sea floor is sloped fairly steeply, and the rode is lying downhill of the anchor.

I'd agree with Capt. Smollett that a 35# anchor and a reasonable amount of chain is fairly manageable, and that the worst part of dealing with that size anchor, especially if it is a Manson Supreme or Rocna, is the process of breaking it out of the bottom, due to the way they set.  Dealing with the mud/sand that rides up on the anchor fluke is a secondary problem with these two specific anchors.

[Gus]

Norman, thanks for saying that, I though I was wrong by doing it that way, but it helps out a lot, specially single handing. I have a bracket in the stern railing holding the anchor, and the line going all the way to the bow cleat. I just toss it over board running from the wind, then the boat just turns around while the momentum sets the anchor.

I also carry a spare anchor in the cockpit locker with the rode in a bucket in case of emergency, or if I want to anchor with one ahead and one astern (I do it all the time)

Gus

In the 60s my family cruised the Bahamas.  We were amazed to watch the fishermen anchor.  The hook was lashed to the stern with the rode leading forward, outboard of everything.  The boat would glide around the anchorage looking for the right spot.  When found, the skipper would toss the anchor over the side as the boy forward payed out some scope.  The momentum of the fishing sloop helped set the anchor and turn the sloop into the wind.  Compared to our operation involving  three or four people, the Bahama method was pretty simple.  I have used it when single handing on deliveries.  Works like a charm

Best, Norman