Fuels ?!?!

Godot · February 29, 2008, 04:43:23 PM

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on February 27, 2008, 07:56:19 PM
Did you have sun covers made up for the jerry cans. I understand that the plastic they're made out of generally degrades a fair bit with intense or extended UV exposure... so to prolong their life and prevent them from suddenly spilling gasoline on-deck, you might want to get sun covers made up for them. The lighter the color, the better. :)

Hmm. Interesting thought. I wonder, though, how expensive a cover would be compared to how expensive replacing the fuel cans every couple of years might be?

My current gerry can lives outside and is unprotected. I'm not fond of this as I don't like the thought of super heating the gasoline on hot summer days; but nothing bad has happened, yet. I do find that the gasket that comes with the nozzle doesn't seem to last long, though. After only filling the tank two or three times it started to leak from the nozzle to can seal whenever transferring fuel. I don't recall the old metal cans failing so quickly. (the red plastic still looks brand new)

AdriftAtSea · February 29, 2008, 06:23:08 PM

My worry would be the problems with spilling fuel all over the boat and into the ocean. The cost is secondary IMHO.

Bill NH · March 08, 2008, 12:32:05 PM

Saw this photo on an eBay boat listing... seems like a time bomb to me. Gas tank down below, right next to the battery and in the vicinity of a bunch of electrical items, I'd bet none of which are intrinsically safe...

I know the debate about gasoline on board will go on forever, but whatever one's feelings this boat certainly seems to cross the line!

fullkeeldan · March 08, 2008, 02:35:09 PM

Only thing missing is the big stogey ashtray ;D

Bubba the Pirate · March 08, 2008, 03:14:47 PM

Dave! Don't light that thing in here, Man!

:o)

Lynx · March 08, 2008, 03:25:47 PM

Looks like you could mount a stove abo ve it. ::)

AdriftAtSea · March 08, 2008, 04:34:42 PM

At least they don't have loose propane tanks rolling around in the bilge.

Lynx · March 08, 2008, 05:56:40 PM

Good point but mine are not rolling around. The MacGregor M has some nice spots to secure them.

s/v Faith · March 08, 2008, 07:39:35 PM

Yea Bill, looks kinda scary to me too.

I have posted on the forum that I want to mount a fuel tank under my cockpit... of course I will use a proper tank and proper fittings. I do plan to have it mounted right next to my battery boxes.... just as many tens of thousands of boats have been delivered from the factory.

I will say that the only difference between this and most factory tanks are the location of the vent (and the fill). This tank is probably more heavily constructed then many factory gas tanks...

Some designs (like the Grampian 26, that comes to mind) had no real storage location for the fuel tank other then the cockpit locker... which would effectively be the same thing as this.

I bet that there are a huge number of small boats with portable fuel tanks stored in unventilated spaces.... many get away with it for years and years with no problems.... but the price for it's not working out sure is high. :o

Fortis · March 08, 2008, 08:11:11 PM

I've seen worse....

My all time favourite was hoping on board a disabled boat to render assistance. Going down belo and finding that the owner kept the used cleaning rags (still soaked in various chemicals) piled up around his fuel tank of 2 stroke (very like th eone pictured, but rusty and corroded from contact with the nasties). The reason for this was the tank had a little dam built around it to prevent spills into the main bilge, so it was obviously perfect for throwing other liquid chemical wastes into aslo, right?...You could smell fumes through the metal as it had turned into a fine spiderweb of rust for the top third. Fuel and other stuffhad overflowed the "dam" and was sloshing around in the bilge...and the owner was smoking as he showed me where he thought the problem was.

One of my proudest moments. I actually managed not to raise my voice.

"Sir, I think we will just get you to go back up top and steer, and we will just to you in. Also, we normally ask that forward hatches are closed for towing...but in this case I want as much air circulation as possible down here, so we will just risk it."
Didn't even bother telling him not to smoke, he was the type that it would not have registered with....

Grime · March 08, 2008, 09:07:16 PM

It is surprising the amount of people that have no common since.

When I went to look and buy my (new to me) Starwind 22 and looking her over I found a 2 1/2 gal plastic gas can (FULL) sitting under the v berth. On one side the elect panel and on the other the porta potty. The can had the spout on it with the plug in. No cap just the plug. With the heat in Texas, the way gas expands, and sitting next to the elec panel all could go BOOM.

I have long since removed the gas can. Sure don't want to loose her before I even get her in the water. Sure small boat are limited on storage but I will surely find a good spot outside for more fuel.

Bill NH · March 09, 2008, 09:43:43 AM

Quote from: s/v Faith on March 08, 2008, 07:39:35 PM
I will say that the only difference between this and most factory tanks are the location of the vent (and the fill).

You've certainly pointed out the biggest issue in my eyes - not the fact that there's a gas tank below, but that it's a portable tank that is not vented to the outside and is not grounded. A proper fixed tank installation can certainly be done safely, even if it is gasoline.

<I was about to point out that it also didn't have a proper fill, but then realized that if a boat had a portable tank below like this, hopefully the owner would take the tank up topside to fill it rather than bring the gas nozzle down into the cabin... I'd hope even the most clueless would figure that one out!> ;)

Ol' Coot · March 13, 2008, 12:53:05 PM

OK, lets not all get our knickers in a knot here.

That boat is in a warehouse or shop for winter storage or/and a rebuild. The tank may well have been drained before the boat was laid up. There's no indication that the owner sailed the boat that way, he just might not want the tank out in the cockpit when not in actual use.

Captain Smollett · March 13, 2008, 07:44:07 PM

Quote from: Ol' Coot on March 13, 2008, 12:53:05 PM

OK, lets not all get our knickers in a knot here.

That boat is in a warehouse or shop for winter storage or/and a rebuild. The tank may well have been drained before the boat was laid up. There's no indication that the owner sailed the boat that way, he just might not want the tank out in the cockpit when not in actual use.

Good point....

But, I'm just wondering if that fiddle in front of the tanks suggests that that *IS* its regular home.

marujo_sortudo · January 16, 2012, 07:53:56 PM

FYI, there are dangers to using mineral spirits in lamps. Read this thread to be educated:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?142224-Lamp-Oil-v-Kerosene

CharlieJ · January 16, 2012, 08:55:53 PM

I guess I've just been lucky during the last 40 years, burning mineral spirits in my kero stoves and lanterns. Also in the wick type heaters I have - an Aladdin Blue Flame ( from the mid 60's, but a much older design than that) and a much more modern KeroSun.

I think I'll keep using it.

One point- in much of that thread they used the term "Mineral oil" NOT the same stuff at all. 100% Mineral Spirits is what I use. Why you ask? Because modern kerosenes are simply not as good as kerosene was when I was a kid and my grandmother burned in her stove in the 40's. It smokes, leaves a residue and is costly. Used to be kerosene was clear- now it's a urine yellow. Less people use it for light and cooking, so the refining isn't as good- costs more to refine it clear.

I won't use it.

marujo_sortudo · January 17, 2012, 11:44:40 AM

YMMV, naturally. If I'd been using it for 40 years, there wouldn't be much to stop me either. I can imagine that different lamp or heater designs would have an strong influence on whether the "run away" condition was possible/likely. I haven't decided what fuel(s) to settle on for the long term myself, but those later posts in the wb forum did seem to be some of the most comprehensive info I've seen anyone post so far. Seems there's a lot of confusion with terminology out there and it must be very interesting traveling to 3rd world countries and trying to know exactly what you're buying and if it's anything you actually want to use aboard.

s/v Faith · January 17, 2012, 12:56:26 PM

I had an interesting problem using Weems & Plath (expensive!) lamp oil.

Over Christmas I was on a delivery and lit the small Weems & Plath cabin light... the one with the 1/2" wick. I trimmed the wick, and lit it then turned it all the way down to put the globe on.

When I placed the globe on the lamp it immediately shattered. I had the flame as small as possible, and the globe had no noticeable cracks...

Thoughts?

Captain Smollett · January 17, 2012, 01:37:33 PM

Quote from: s/v Faith on January 17, 2012, 12:56:26 PM
I had an interesting problem using Weems & Plath (expensive!) lamp oil.

Over Christmas I was on a delivery and lit the small Weems & Plath cabin light... the one with the 1/2" wick. I trimmed the wick, and lit it then turned it all the way down to put the globe on.

When I placed the globe on the lamp it immediately shattered. I had the flame as small as possible, and the globe had no noticeable cracks...

Thoughts?

You weren't doing your Ella Fitzgerald imitation again, were you?

;D

Seriously, the only thing I can think of was that there MAY have been a small chip or scratch somewhere that was not noticed. It does not take much at all to break the 'surface tension' of the glass. That's why in chem labs, if we noticed ANY defect on our glassware, it was tossed. (Okay, occasionally, I could fix it with some glass work, fire polishing and the like...).

Guessing, but I doubt it was the heat from the flame. More likely some mechanical stress (squeezed, vibrated, etc) overpowered a weak spot.

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Fuels ?!?!