B29 Inspection

[Christopher]

Went to see a B29.  Very big boat.  After looking at so many 25 and 26 footers, it seems that the 28 - 30 footers are a much larger boat all around.  This was a dinette layout boat.  It looks like the boat was extremely well cared for until somebody got ahold of it that thought they could "improve" the boat.  Whomever did everything very half-a$$ed.  Wiring is hanging everywhere.   The worst part is that he/she decided to install some deck fittings up on the foredeck.  I found the plates underneath the topsides in the forepeak.  Topside, I tapped all over the deck with my resin hammer and found that area was delaminated.  It's only in the very foremost area, but the fittings were definitely not properly bedded.



All in all, I like the size of the boat.  The deck has been redone somewhat recently.  New awl grip and the hull and rudder looks excellent.  Mast and rigging looked nice, at least what I could reach.  It was definitely one of the nicer boats I've looked at in the price range.





Below you can see some of the PO's handywork.  Hanging wiring, and an oddly placed home-bult cabinet killing the quarterberth but not sealing off the cockpit lazarette...







Nice boat for the most part.. Atomic 4, Starboard galley, newer main, and lots of cleanup type work.

What do you all think of the delaminated decks at the forepeak?  It's about 2 square feet of deck area that seems delam'd.

[nowell]

If you don't want to work on the boat, you aren't going to want to undertake that project. Might want to call around and get a quote. Im sure it will be more than that 2 foot area. Good thing, is if you decide to repair it, it will take care of all that crazy mounting. The wiring is easy type stuff I don't mind doing.

Pretty good looking boat tho!

[Christopher]

I don't mind doing work.  I just need a boat that doesn't look like it needs a ton of work for my wife or else she won't go on it or have any of our friends on it.  This one has pretty fresh deck paint and new grip.  The interior is pretty decent and with some new cushions and some woodwork replacement would be very livable.

The boat is a lot more complicated than the 25-26 footers I've been looking at.  Electric bilge, 3 batteries, lights everywhere, and who knows what else I didn't even recognize or find.

You guys think rebedding the deck fittings up front and leaving it for a season is okay?  I'm thinking that whatever I bought I'd rent a heated storage facility where I could work on her for the following winter, but would want to sail the boat through next season.  Only thing that worries me is that the foredeck is where the forestay is and if it's weakened might compromise the strength of the rig... It didn't seem weak when I was dancing around up there, I just heard the dull thud with the hammer.

[Godot]

I seriously doubt you are going to lose the rig by sailing it for a season.

[Christopher]

That's good to hear.

This stuff is all new to me... a rig falling from a weakened foredeck is as believable as supermodels flocking to board the vessel in awe of its beauty and the captain's seamanship.  ;D

[Christopher]

Going to put in an offer on this one...  Fingers crossed!

[ThistleCap]

Chris, I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating.  Be sure offer is contingent upon successful survey.  Get a certified surveyor skilled in the use of a moisture meter.  He can tell you exactly what the deck is like and how far the damage goes.
If the deal goes through, you want to remove all through deck fittings, redrill the holes over-size.  Route out core between the laminates.  Tape over the bottom of the hole either with wax paper cut slightly larger than the hole size, or use large cellophane tape, like packing tape.  Fill the hole with slightly thickened epoxy (so it still pours and runs to a certain extent).  Epoxy contracts as it starts to harden, so top off the holes as needed.  Redrill to the correct size and rebed.  Even if you have a future leak, moisture will not migrate into the core or blocking material.

[atomvoyager]

Chris,

I got your private email for an opinion on this boat. I haven't worked on or sailed the Bristol 29, but
have not heard of any major flaws in design or construction. I checked the listing on yachtworld.
Looks like a good boat to cruise the lakes or go trans-Atlantic with the right upgrades and equipment.

I agree with thistle regarding the survey. You'll want to let the surveyor know you don't want the
standard half-assed survey telling you how many life jackets and fire extinguishers are on board.
Tell him you need to know how much it will cost to make things right, such as rig, deck,
engine, rudder, sails. He needs to actually open the sails, start the engine and all the other
things they often avoid doing because many of their customers simply want a survey to get insurance.

Regarding the deck core. Yes, it is a big job to recore, but it sounds like this one is nowhere near bad
enough to be a structural issue that won't let you sail. The problem with a wet delaminated core is
that it becomes difficult to seal leaks around deck fittings and chainplates since the wet soft core
flexes and opens the leaks again. Drilling out, dying and filling each hole with epoxy may postpone a deck
recore many years, depending how bad it is and how many drips you can tolerate. You can use the deck
core issue and the old atomic 4 and other items found on the survey to negotiate a better price.

Personally, I'd rather not go to sea with a dinette in place of a sea bunk, but it may be workable if
you can use the quarterberth. Around the lakes, it won't matter. Good luck.

James Baldwin

[Christopher]

James, and Thistle,

Thanks very much for the advice, especially the advice on the boring of the thru holes.  I was considering not getting a survey simply because of the high cost.  I only heard that one bad spot on the foredeck with the resin hammer, but I suppose it would be a worthwhile investment if it turns out that there are more severe problems on the deck.  I will include the survey contingency in my offer.  I want to ensure the engine is started and carefully inspected.

James, what is your primary concern with the dinette at sea?  I'm not particularly fond of the layout myself.  Is it just the difficulty of trying to prepare anything where motion is so great or is it more a matter of safety (drain/flooding)?

Thanks to all for the advice.

[atomvoyager]

To me the dinette layout opposite a full length galley is best suited to a boat that makes port every night where the table can be converted to a double bunk or it has a comfortable v-berth to sleep in.  At sea, the main cabin is the most comfortable place on board a small boat and seems odd to exchange a leeward bunk there for a seat at a table.  Quite a few have torn out their bunks to build a dinette though, so it seems it's not a universal truth.

[CapnK]

My $0.02 regarding dinettes on a small boat (since I have had, on this boat and in the past couple of years, dinettes in multiple configurations both port and starboard, hi and low, convertible and non- to berths... ;) ):

In short, I concur with James: they're not the best solution.

I really do like the idea (obviously ;D). So much so that I tried every different way there is to have one aboard, but in the end, it just is not the most efficient usage of the space available, and the drawbacks outweighed any advantages. On a larger boat, or one with a wider deck house, a dinette might work better.

Without going on at length about all of my 'experiments' ;), what I've found to work best is to have a nice long sleep-able settee on one side, and perhaps a seat across the aisle for those occasions when you might want to sit face-face with another person.

Pay attention when you read stories by/about voyagers on long passages and you will find that they use the settee as their main resting and relaxation spot belowdecks. After all that time with my different dinettes, but now having a settee, I've found the same to be true even while not at sea - a big settee is both convenient and comfortable. Having an open settee, it is easy to flop down and stretch out while reading a book or having a snack, and there is less 'visual' and physical crowding of the relatively small space that is the main cabin.

I've decided on a full-length settee to port (6' 2" length, 22" wide, cabinetry behind), and a nice big seat to starboard. I'll have a lee cloth for when heeled to starboard, and I'll also be able to place a board between the two, in order to stretch out athwartships with my feet downhill when/if that is more comfortable/feasible.

Just my thoughts on that... :)

Regarding the dull sound in the foredeck: it is possible that there is water intrusion, but no rot. You could drill weep holes in the underside of the deck this winter and let it dry until spring, see if that will allow you to simplify your repair...? Sometimes even though core gets wet, it doesn't lose its bond to the skins. In that case, drying out is all that is needed, though knowing myself, I would still probably follow up with some thinned epoxy/GitRot into the affected aea once dry...

And while whoever did it might not have properly protected the core with those thru-deck fixtures, I do like that they used (and left for you to use) those nice thick large aluminum backing plates.

[newt]

Chris,
8 months ago I got a survey on a boat I had just fallen in love with (first mistake) It had "minor" delamination on the side decks, "some" in the front and on the doghouse. I got it then put out bids to "fix the minor delamination"  The bids by serious, well meaning professionals were  approximately 40% the price of the boat. I finally found someone who had done the original fiberglass layup for the boat, and he and I worked our butts off for 3 months to redo 80% of the front deck. Moral of the story-
1. The delam is always more than initially shown. Plan on doing the entire front deck.
2. It is hard dusty work- and it needs to be done sooner rather than later. Rot is exactly that- it will continue to spread until it is stopped.
3. I can see by your pictures that the PO stopped in the middle of a refit. If he is like me, he stopped because he realized the job was more than he could handle. My guess is the wood rot stopped him but I am not there.
Be real careful on this one. If I had to do it over again I am not sure I would have chosen a delam for my project boat. But I am done now and sailing after 8 months of work. I have still a weeks worth to put in a good frig, and take out the old generator...etc

[Christopher]

You've all left me with much to think about.  Newt thanks for the perspective.  I've only fallen in love with one boat, an Ariel which still calls to me.  Needs her topsides done, a professional survey of some hull curiosities, and new sails, but I haven't ruled her out yet.
CapnK, I had those very reservations about the dinette.  I had visions of creating a layout like Frank in one of his numerous boats of building some sort of foldout to make the main salon one nice big bed for when in port.  This sort of thing is not as feasible in a dinette.  In any case, I think I'm going to see what else comes along before moving forward on this boat.  Spring splashdown is a long way away and boats are coming on the market a lot faster than they are leaving it.

The saga continues...

[nowell]

Ill be honest, even in port, I just flop on the settee. I wouldn't want to waste time turning the entire salon into a bed. You'll find, especially if your going to be by yourself alot, that its just easier to grab a few pillows, and stretch out on the bench.

Maybe its just me personally, but I try and keep the boat in a situation where I can be underway in under 30 mins.

[Auspicious]

I'll agree with those above about wanting an arrangement that is comfortable and convenient in the space available when in port or at anchor.

On the other hand the virtue of a sea berth is grossly over rated. Be honest with yourself about how much time you will spend on passage. Unless you're doing serious hard-pressed voyaging you'll be fine sleeping on the cabin sole low and near the center of the boat.

When I ordered my boat I picked arm chairs on one side (somewhat bigger boat) instead of a settee (I do have a settee on the other side). Many of my friends and acquaintances told me I was making a big mistake by giving up a sea berth. Some people have pontificated on the virtue of sea berths WHILE SITTING IN MY ARMCHAIRS! Guess how long it took them to be ejected and pointed at the settee? *grin*

You'll spend much more time sleeping at anchor/in port relative to sailing. Be comfortable on the hook and content underway.

[CharlieJ]

The one thing I don't like about most dinnettes is they are just plain uncomfortable to sit in. Particularly in smaller boats. No leg room on the outside and short head room. Never mind impossible to use when the boat is hard heeled to the other side.

MUCH prefer settees either side.

[Christopher]

Well I got an accepted offer on her and she's under contract.  Storage is paid through May and all that's left is the inspection!

[nowell]

Good news!! Whens the inspection?

[Oldrig]

Great!
Good luck with the inspection. Keep us posted.
B29 is a great old boat!
--Joe

[Christopher]

Thanks!  I'm really excited about it.  The wife is too!  The broker is working out the details of schedule... inspection will be sometime next week.  The project list for this winter is already mounting in my head....  glad my brother-in-law is an electrician... the boat needs some wiring attention.