Seeking Perspective on some repairs

[Christopher]

I've looked at more boats than I can count now and have seen a variety of problems.  The tricky thing is, it's hard to know without having done any repairs myself what is major and what is not.

First one that has me curious is bulkhead separation from the topside.  This is a picture of the underside of the deck from the v-berth of an Ariel.  Is this significant enough separation to be concerned about or just expected for the boat's age?



With respect to deck crazing, is this serious enough crazing that you would not want to take the boat out on the water?  My guess is not in this case.  This is the most significant area of crazing on this particular Ariel.

[CapnK]

@ the bulkhead, that sort of tabbing breakout is fairly common. Whether or not you have a saggy strongback, I think you'll see that tabbing edge looking like that because these old boats have moved a lot in 40 years. :) Easy enough fix - clean old paint etc off of the 'glass, sand w/60 or 80 grit out several inches (4-5" min) in both directions to get some 'tooth' for new stuff to grab onto, put in new tabbing with epoxy resin and cloth.

Crazing? That ain't crazing. That looks factory smooth almost, compared to the crazing on Katie Marie. ;D Go sailing! :)

Actually, what that looks like is cracked gelcoat from the stanchion moving the underlying fiber layer. Probably not serious (WRT strength degradation), but can lead to water ingress. Worth fixing, but a pain, since you have to repair gelcoat in non-skid areas if you want it 'Bristol'. :/

[Oldrig]

I can't comment on the tab separation, but the gelcoat cracking ("crazing" to some) is situation normal on older, heavily laid-up boats (like my Cape Dory). Don't worry about it, IMHO.

--Joe

[Tim]

That boat is ready and wanting to be SAILED!  ;D

[s/v Faith]

The tabbing in that location is of little or no real consequence IMHO.  The bulkhead is in compression under the load of the mast step (and the mast) and the bulkhead, strong back, and braces (absent on higher numbered Ariels) are all mechanically fastened together.

Faith's looks just like that, I might fix it some day if I am bored but it is no threat to the boat.

  The crazing is SO minor compared to what you would expect on similar vintage boats it is not much worth mentioning.  Could be addressed when you decide to re-bed the deck hardware.

I am with Tim;

That boat is ready and wanting to be SAILED!  ;D

[Christopher]

This is the one boat I fell in love with, but the wife doesn't like the "vintage" look.  By that I only refer to the spider cracks all over her topsides.  We'll see where things are at come April/May.

[Oldrig]

Don't get a boat that your wife doesn't like!
On the other hand, if the boat is otherwise one that you love, and you're willing to work on the deck . . .

[Christopher]

Ha - I should be careful not to turn every post into a prospective boat post :)

I appreciate the feedback on the severity of the above mentioned photos.  These are things I see on so many boats and don't really know how to gauge the magnitude of the problems...

This helps - Thanks!

[Christopher]

As far as deck refinishing is concerned I was thinking it would be easier to spray rather than roll and tip.  I used to do body work on cars when I was younger and while not a professional by any means, it always turned out alright.  I actually used an electric paint gun rather than one hooked up to a compressor.  It occasionally spit out some globs, but I actually painted a whole car with it. 

Is the primer and finishing paint for topsides considerably thicker or contain materials not good for a spray gun?

[s/v Faith]

Spraying is fine, and you CAN get a smoother finish.  The problem is the need to mask / remove everything, and control the overspray.  Keep in mind the deck of a sailboat is going to be farther from the ground, and the overspray will go farther.  Also, if there are any insects around they are going to get in the paint (can be true of roll / brush, but less so).

  If you are going to do it in the water, the humidity will rarely cooperate, if on the hard in the boat yard, then you have to be positioned far enough away from other boats....

  Rolling and tipping is not hard, and for deck painting it is really pretty easy to apply with a roller / brush anyway.

You can do a pretty nice job, it is much easier, and not too expensive.

[CharlieJ]

I've sprayed every boat we've had. Just a matter of thinning correctly.

One point- decks are NOT topsides. Topsides on a boat is that portion of the hull between sheer(deck edge) and water line.

[skylark]

Just keep in mind that if you are using a two part paint like Awl Grip, that the spray is extremely toxic and you need to use a positive ventilation mask.  Probably because if you breathe in droplets, they cure and harden inside your lungs.  Rolling it is less of a health threat. 

[nowell]

lol I wish my deck looked like that!

[Christopher]

Just keep in mind that if you are using a two part paint like Awl Grip, that the spray is extremely toxic and you need to use a positive ventilation mask.  Probably because if you breathe in droplets, they cure and harden inside your lungs.  Rolling it is less of a health threat. 

Yikes - wasn't aware of that.  My old car I painted was metallic forest green.  I was coughing up sparkly dark green sputum for a good week afterward.  You don't realize how much you inhale.

[Christopher]

One point- decks are NOT topsides. Topsides on a boat is that portion of the hull between sheer(deck edge) and water line.

Much appreciate the correction.

[CharlieJ]

On the resipirator- on the ten boats I painted spraying two part polys ( not counting other types of paint) I've only ever used a VERY good double cartridge respirator-

BUT-

6 of those boats were sprayed outdoors and the 4 that were shot indoors were set up in a building open at both ends, with big fans setting up a serious airflow.

Can't deny that force air equipment is great- but it's hugely expensive for just one job.

Work clean, stay upwind and use a really good mask and you should do fine. However- roll and tip is safer and really does well.

[Auspicious]

Can't deny that force air equipment is great- but it's hugely expensive for just one job.

It depends on where you are of course and what the local market is like, but often one can rent such equipment.

[s/v necessity]

Careful with spraying two part paints, if you are careless enough you can definitely pay the ultimate price.  If you shoot modern automotive paint with no mask, even minimally, I suspect it'll do bad things to you, if not kill you.  This is definitely riskier than swimming right after eating ;)

   That being said I know that Dupont Imron is a two part paint that contains isocyanates.  (I think it's roughly a simular to interlux perfection or Awlgrip)  And I know guys who shoot it regularly (maintaining a fleet of concrete mixer trucks) and only wear a full face cartriged mask (3M) they are in a large building with good ventilation. (they also cover all their skin up too, no bare skin) When I asked the manager of a local automotive paint supply shop he confirmed that most all the paints require a "remote air supplied respirator" and that few shops actually use them.... 

    So I agree with CharlieJ, but with one caveat.  BE REAL CAREFUL, BE SMART.  Make sure the mask fits well and is of good quality, and new.  Use a good mask (I prefer 3M) even if you roll and tip.

    I realize that I'm not really adding much to the discussion here, I just felt the need to chime in.  These paints demand respect in just about every way.  It's serious stuff.  Serious Gloss and Serious money too!

    As someone who spent many years spraying furniture lacquer and some automotive product, I decided to roll and tip my boat with perfection.  I'm not really all that happy with the results, but everyone else is. 

[CharlieJ]

Yep- agree totally on the being careful.

And by the way- I owned A furniture repair and refinishing business for 25 years. ;D Laura and I had one for 15. She's pretty good with a lacquer and varnish gun also. ;)

[Christopher]

I was reading on the pearson ariel forum about this very boat.  Another gentleman went to look at her and he found what he supposed to be drainage from the keel void.  I hadn't looked closely at this as I suspected it was oil from the outboard.  There were trails of it running down the shaft of the motor and the pics all show lots of canisters of oil...

Anyway, if a keel void is holding water, is this something that you can just sail as is for a season or is this something that should be immediately repaired?  I imagine you'd want to keep the boat out of freezing temperatures if the void is holding significant amounts of water to avoid ice expansion... It also stands to reason that the fiberglass is more vulnerable to permeation from within...

To reiterate, should one find that water is getting in the keel void, is it okay to leave it for the season and fix the following long cold winter?