dreaming

[matt195583]

I have been busy as a one armed bricklayer in Baghdad in the last few months between working on my catalina 22 and a new female in my life. I have had little time to spend on the net and what little i have had as been searching for sailing related information and researching my next boat purchase. One boat that has really taken my interest is the compass 28. They are apparently very sea worthy with a 3/4 keel, keel hung rudder, keel stepped mast, tiller steer, inboard diesel and a host of other features that appear to be a testament to great design. And they are well within my budget  :)
    Since finding them i have read great things and inevitably it has fueled my desire to learn more about sailing, and hopefully be a livaboard soon after I finish my trade ( 2.5 years ) or as i explain it to my skeptical family is " a bum on a boat " ;) If anyone here is familiar with the compass 28 any insight would be very much appreciated. 

[matt195583]

Well the last few months have been a terrible time. i lost my father in late January and an uncle some 2 weeks after that. My father was aged 65 and my uncle 66, I'm not looking for sympathy I dont think that any one could really say anything that will make it all better. 
       One positive that i have taken from all this that basically mimics the sail far motto is "life is short do it now"  in the case of dad he worked his hole life waiting for retirement to spend his leisure years. years that obviously would not be available to him. My uncle on the other hand traveled all his life saw amazing  places and met amazing people, he was also a professor in tourism and world renound for various books he had written. I think i will follow his lead. ( travel not the books :) )
          Speaking to friends of my uncles at the wake, one in particular asked me if i intended to travel, when i told him of my intentions of buying a small yacht and sailing off after i finish my trade his eyes lit up and he said " If i had my time again i would give that a go". unlike most people that give you the look usually associated with a madman. A look which I'm sure most of you here have met at some time or another.

I guess that is my latest piece of inspiration. I have inherited a sum of money from my father that will pay any out standing debts and buy my next (read bigger) boat. I have spent countless hours at my computer over the last few years looking at boats and stories of people who have done what i want to do. All the while it seemed so far away that i couldn't really formulate a plan. Tall that has changed for me now I have given up smoking and  banked about $2000 in the last month. I am heck bent on doing this now and hopefully I will be able to purchase the new boat in a few months ( or at least start seriously looking for one ) .

I have made a bit of a short list of boats that really seem to suit what i want to do. The Compass 28, Tophat 25, Clansman 30 and the Pearson 30-28. alot of the yachts that are highly regarded on this website are rare as hens teeth in Australia so they are ruled out for me. One thing that is a real priority for me is standing headroom as I am 5'11"so six foot is a minimum. one thing all yachts listed above appear share.
        I think I am going through the usual process with the list though. That is constantly convincing myself that i need bigger and bigger boats. a while back i was looking at 35 footers with price tags that put me out of the game for alot longer than I would like ( 2 years is too long already ). At the moment I am thinking the tophat is HIGH on the list ( http://www.tophatyachts.org/ ) The price range for a start leaves me with $10,000 to $15,000 in the bank where as most of the others would leave my with next to nothing. I am hoping to start out with coastal voyaging and move on to tackling the pacific ( Noumea Tonga Samoa NZ ) and hopefully further .
       If any of you would care to look at their website and specifications and give me an opinion it would be greatly appreciated. 
 

[s/v Faith]

Matt,

  I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your father (and your uncle).  I have a tradition of calling my dad each time someone mentions having lost theirs. I do think it is a fitting tribute to use some of the money he left to follow your dream.... something I would wish for my son some day.

  I hope you are able to find the right ship for your plan.  Of course you know what you need, I encourage you to stay as small / simple as you can be comfortable with.... those dollars are hard won freedom.

  The very best of luck to you.  Here is a grog for you, and I hope to hear more from you as you continue to pursue your dream.

[CapnK]

Matt - Go.

:)

It sounds like you are in a great position to do so. The Tophat - I'd never heard of them, but it seems that they are very similar to a lot of the boats known as 'small, capable cruisers' on this side of the world... After a quick look at the site, I would give _serious attention_ to what it says about the fact that some shipped from the factory as a separate hull & deck, left to individuals to join/finish. You'd either want to make absolutely sure that that job was done full-on proper back then, or plan on redoing it yourself prior to taking off. And of course, there will be other expensive and time-consuming things to do before she's ready, but I don't see anything that would preclude taking one to sea. Remember: KISS!

Sorry to hear about both your father and your uncle. My father died in 2000, and even now it seems like that was just yesterday. It is nice to know that we carry much of those we love around in us, even after they have gone. Doesn't make up for the personal loss, but it helps.

[AdriftAtSea]

Some of those that Matt has mentioned are essentially US models being sold under a different name. Some of the small catalinas were licensed for manufacture and re-badged IIRC.

[matt195583]

Adrift  The re badged catalinas (boomeroo's here) are not really what I am after.  I am pretty well sold on the top hat 25. CapnK note taken on the hull deck join I appreciate you spending the time to have a read through that page. I have also recently found a few web sites of top hat circumnavigations, one of which the boat was standard.
     One thing that I Need to make a decision on is the engine .... out board or inboard , msot of  the MKII and MKIII's that have out board engines have cockpit wells. I am of the opinion that a diesel engine would be the better choice for safety sake ( non explosive fuel). although out boards are so much cheaper to replace or maintain .... I think i need to do some more reading on this one.

I have also been working on a wish list for the next boat .... It is about $14000 worth (a lot of which is worst case stuff) assuming that the next boat has none of the things on the said list. Also the 22 footer is now on the market at  a price that should see it sold sooner rather than later.

[AdriftAtSea]

Adrift  The re badged catalinas (boomeroo's here) are not really what I am after.  I am pretty well sold on the top hat 25. CapnK note taken on the hull deck join I appreciate you spending the time to have a read through that page. I have also recently found a few web sites of top hat circumnavigations, one of which the boat was standard.

The Tophat is a pretty solid little boat from what I've read about it.

One thing that I Need to make a decision on is the engine .... out board or inboard , msot of  the MKII and MKIII's that have out board engines have cockpit wells. I am of the opinion that a diesel engine would be the better choice for safety sake ( non explosive fuel). although out boards are so much cheaper to replace or maintain .... I think i need to do some more reading on this one.

The inboard will also give you more options in the way of power generation, hot water, refrigeration, and such, since you can power equipment off of it. It will also probably give you more range. However, it will also complicate the systems on the boat, as it will require through-hulls for the cooling water and exhaust, as well as a stuffing box and cutlass bearing for the prop shaft.

I have also been working on a wish list for the next boat .... It is about $14000 worth (a lot of which is worst case stuff) assuming that the next boat has none of the things on the said list. Also the 22 footer is now on the market at  a price that should see it sold sooner rather than later.

[matt195583]

powering other applications is a  bonus. a few things that really appeal to me with diesel engine is the fact that the fuel doesn't go bang quite so easily. As adrfift  mentioned increased range, ability to run a decent sized alternator for auxiliary charging and the ability to run a stove on the same fuel. Effectively reducing the fuels needed to be carried to diesel, a small amount of alcohol to preheat and a small amount of gas for the tender outboard if one is used
                  Also I doubt i would sleep well with 100 odd liters gas on board. Where as diesel would not bother me so much and just about double mileage. 

again as mentioned by adrift the downside to the diesel is thru hulls and prop shaft issues . not to mention loss of all important cabin space.

     

[CharlieJ]

I've had a diesel inboard, and now on this boa, have an out board in a well. For a 25 footer, I'd choos the O/B In the well every time.

We have not found any range problems with it. We carry two 6 gallon tanks one each side of the engine and two two gallon tanks in the cockpit footwell.  The O/B is a 4 stroke- only way to fly.

Our dinghy O/B is a 2 stroke so we use the fuel there too.

As I said, we've found zero range problems and we've now been some 5000 ICW and coastal miles aboard.

But if the boat had an inboard, with it's tankage, piping etc we simply would not have the storage space for two of us to live aboard long term. It would cut our water tankage drastically and also seriously reduce storage space for food, spares, etc needed when you are out for long periods. We can stay out for around a mmonth without resupply. Reducing water tankage would cut that in half.

On a larger boat, I'd go with the diesel. On a smaller one the O/B makes more sense.
T
Also, it amuses me no end to sit in a gathering and listen to someone rant about the dangers of gasoline on a boat, then find they have propane stoves aboard!! We use kerosene to cook with, but propane and gasoline can both be quite safe if you are reasonably careful with either.

[CapnK]

Having had a small boat both with a diesel (Universal M2-12) and with an o/b (Merc 6hp 4strk) in a well, I'm with CJ - the o/b makes much more sense in a smaller boat. From my experiences:

• Range per gallon of fuel - little difference.
• Noise while underway - o/b *much* quieter and smoother.
• Power - My o/b is 1/2 the hp of the diesel I had, & on a larger boat, so there is no way to compare the two. I think that if the horsepower ratio was closer, that it would be pretty much an even contest.
• Weight - the o/b (just the engine) weighs about 1/4 the weight of the diesel (again, just the engine). The weight from it is out farther on the end, but I don't think it quite evens out. With the diesel, add in weight for filters & brackets, heavy duty hoses, prop shaft & prop, tranny, thru-hulls, controls and cabling, etc etc... My guess is the o/b winds up being 1/5th to 1/6th the weight of a diesel installation, so overall the boat is much less burdened under sail by the o/b.
• *Mental* weight - This is one of the biggest factors for my preference. With the diesel *every time* I knew I was going to be hitting the start switch, I worried that it wouldn't. I knew that if it didn't start, it was gonna be ex$pen$ive and _difficult_ to work on. Plus, down the road, I knew that sooner or later I was looking at a rebuild, with all the work and expense that would entail. I don't like worrying that much. :) With the o/b, I can work on it, if needed, with relative ease on the dock, cockpit, or even in the cabin. Parts are relatively cheap, and there are fewer of them to go wrong. And I can replace the whole engine for a fraction of the cost of a diesel rebuild, especially considering parts and labor and possibly haulout. As a bonus of sorts, there are multiple fewer holes in my hull.
• Space - Obviously, this one goes to the o/b.
• Ease - diesel wins, but not by much. In my case, it is not a lot of effort to put the o/b in place. And as it can be removed with a plug to fill in the well, this negates prop drag and fairs the hull. I've read that this can increase a small boats speed by 1/4kt or so - which would add 6 miles a day to run totals. Not much, but every little bit can help. :) Also - I don't have to scrape the prop off every so often. ;)
• Explosions - Lots more boats *don't* blow up, than do, because of gas engines. It's an understood risk, one which can be compensated for by the use of proper precautions.
• Charging - diesel wins this one, but - I don't have a charger on my o/b. I have a small energy budget, work to keep it that way, and use solar for now while planning to add wind generation.
  

-------------------------------------

Now, all that said, don't get me wrong thinking I hate diesels - I don't! They are way cool and do a great job, and I never had much problem at all with mine. I made sure that I had extra belts, filters, impellers, tools appropriate for the engine, and kept my fuel and tank clean. Same thing I do for the o/b, or would do for any engine.

It mostly just comes down to the boat size, and the KISS principle, and the o/b has all the advantages there, *for me* in my situation.

[Christopher]

One thing I hate about diesels that I hadn't seen discussed here is the smell.  With an outboard in the aft well, your cabin is free of the smell of fuel.  I'll tell you this much, there is nothing quite so miserable as being stuck below in a storm when it's 90 degrees, ridiculously humid, the diesel is banging and your cabin reeks of diesel fuel.  It's loud, sickening and miserable.  I had this experience on a 27 footer.  I've been below on a 35 footer with a diesel and it was a whole different experience.

[matt195583]

Thank you all for you reply's . they are very helpfull. I am swaying towards the O/B in the well. For one the boats with O/B's are considerably cheaper. The less thru hulls the better as well  :)  also as capnK and charlieJ both mentioned space is at a premium so that has to be a major plus ......... food for thought hey.

[matt195583]

This is one of the candidates . i reckon i could drop the price to 12 or 13 G http://www.tophatyachts.org/board/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=352

[Mario G]

Hey Matt  I say go for it, I to have been talking about living aboard for awhile like the winter months some where warm.

We just got a Chrysler C-26 and I think its going to work great for our needs. I think the OB engine can give you everything but heat.  (back to living aboard where its warm  ;D)

you could get in the habit of disconnecting the tank from the out board and making sure they have good ventilation.  Mine have very little chance to collect vapor and that's what you need to worry about.

When someone looks at me funny about I dream I share with you, I know they have never sailed thru a wild life reserve.  Or have the 1st mate ask if you could go faster she wants to be at the marina dinner for lunch.  And we have meet the greatest people at the marinas  ...


That sailboat is well equipped, good luck finding one .

[CapnK]

Looks nice, Matt, what with all the 'extras' - like the tiller pilot and windvane. New, those would be probably ~US$2,000-2,500 alone.

[Godot]

Someone mentioned heat.  As I continue thinking about buying a liveaboard this, as much as anything, made me interested in Diesel.  I will admit to being extremely pleased with the diesel heater (forced air) while on Auspicious.  Heat wasn't generated by the engine; but by another bullet style heater.  But, it used the same fuel.

Of course, heading south permanently is probably even better.

[matt195583]

I had a very interesting day today  ;D . I went and looked at a clansman 30. I is a 1966 build fits well within the guidelines for a liveaboard cruiser and is in amazing condition for her age. The bloke who owns it has lived aboard for 10 years and the boat is a credit to him. http://boatpoint.ninemsn.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=8336466 that is the link. It is on the expensive side and would see my budget exausted but in comparison to what else is available the extra 10k is easily covered by a handfull of the onboard systems. I am seriously considering making an offer subject to survey and test sail.

[SV Wind Dancer]

I've long contemplated a marine wood stove, but it's far at the bottom of a list of upgrades, in order of necessity. 

[s/v Faith]

I had a very interesting day today  ;D . I went and looked at a clansman 30. I is a 1966 build fits well within the guidelines for a liveaboard cruiser and is in amazing condition for her age. The bloke who owns it has lived aboard for 10 years and the boat is a credit to him. http://boatpoint.ninemsn.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=8336466 that is the link. It is on the expensive side and would see my budget exausted but in comparison to what else is available the extra 10k is easily covered by a handfull of the onboard systems. I am seriously considering making an offer subject to survey and test sail.

Matt,

  Looks like a nicely thought out, and laid out little ship.  They really got a lot of interior out of that hull, with the cabin top going to the rails like that.  Looks like she would really feel much larger then her WLL below.

  I hope this works out well for you.  Hope you send along some more photos once she is yours.  ;D

I like this 'layout' shot, both because I like the layout of the boat, and for the way it shows how boats with either inboard or outboard in a well are generally configured.

[lions pride]

Matt,
       Go now, I speak with experience. I retired at age of 52 which is early I know but not early enough. I had traveled all over the world buy the time I was 26. I then went to work for real so I could retire and learn to sail my new found love. I bought a small sailboat (19 ft) and learned as much as I could on my own. I then bought a bigger boat thinking I knew enough (but I didn't) I am in my second year of work on this boat getting her ready for the blue water. Did I do it right? heck I don't know but I wouldn't change anything if I could. Life is short and if you work for someone else you are trading your life for money. Keep it simple and understand what you have.  You can sail a long ways with very little money. Good luck