Dilemna I'm in (maybe I should rename the boat Dilemna) w/Bristol 24 vs 27

[tomwatt]

So I'm in a bit of a muddle, and keep going back and forth as to what to do.
Thought I'd throw it out here and hear some ideas, and maybe get good advice or recognize bad advice, or something.
I own a very dilapidated Bristol 24 (shallow bilge, iron bits keel) that needs a lot of major items (cushions, pushpit rail, battery, wiring, outboard, etc.) as well as some serious bottom work to get her afloat. You can see where I'm going here.
For the cost of half of what it takes to get this thing going, I am in position to pick up a pretty decent Bristol 27 at an almost steal price, and be ready to play this summer. Most of the numbers (Sail Area, SA/Displacement, etc.) are very similar for the two boats. Obviously the 27 is an Alberg design, and is a bit bigger, has the deeper bilge/lead keel, outboard in well, and has had the quarter berth vut for a second cockpit lazerette.
The added bonus is the B27 has an enclosed head. Not an issue for me, but it seems a very nice lady has come into my life, and it certainly is an issue for her. And I'd really like to make certain she has a good experience on the water (landlubber - as if I'm not!) so I'm concerned about her being comfortable with the boat.
So I'm torn between a boat already owned outright, but needing at least a year's work to bring her back to life vs. a boat that I'll need to buy (stretching me a bit thin) but may suit my needs more than well enough and is pretty much ready to go with only the normal springtime maintenance processes.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Is the B27 a better boat? Worse? I've read comments stating that the B27 is more tender than the B24. My concern about my B24 is it being a very early model, I'm not even sure anyone can be certain the keel contents are stable, and weigh what they're supposed to anyway.
Can I 'hear' everyone's thoughts about this (without causing a major disturbance in the force)?

[Gary Guss]

Life is short, buy the other boat and sail away !

[Tim]

Though I think they are both nice looking boats, the added space in the 27 will be more comfortable for cruising especially if there are two of you.

[tomwatt]

It's really hard to describe how torn I am on this... with the 27, I could be sailing this summer. I could also be flat broke.
However, I could just as easily go flat broke trying to fix up the 24, and still not be ready to sail.

???

The thing is, I spent about 2 hours, going over the 27, including a good long while of "quiet time" just sitting down below, getting a sense of how things were. It's not going to be a great place to host parties of 12, but it's cozy.

General condition of the 27 is pretty okay for its age. It used to have an inboard, which was removed (replaced w/outboard), and the thru-hull glassed over (that merits checking & double-checking).

I have to say I like the lines of the 27 a little better. The 24 looks like the same boat with the tail clipped a bit, and the nose squashed back a little. I'm really leaning towards getting it and just going with it (the 27). In which case, anyone know anyone looking for a 24 project boat? For very cheap?

[Tim]

It's really hard to describe how torn I am on this... with the 27, I could be sailing this summer. I could also be flat broke.
However, I could just as easily go flat broke trying to fix up the 24, and still not be ready to sail.

???

I think you have your answer there, you are going to be broke either way, might as well be sailing ;)

Actually I see having inboard removed and thru hull glassed over as pluses for the 27, how is the outboard mounted?

[Old Shoe]

I don't see a diliema. I think you're feeling like you're betraying your old boat and have a little Catholic guilt. Someone out there will love a project and give her a good home. Upgrade to the 27.

[Oldrig]

Go for broke! (Easy for me to say ... I already own a boat and don't have a steady job.)

I'm familiar with both boats, and the 27--especially if it's ready to splash--is capable of much more than the 24. See if you can find somebody looking for a project boat, because the 24 is also a very nice little boat.

When I was looking for my present boat (an Alberg-designed Cape Dory 25D), I seriously considered a Bristol 27. It was in better condition, and had way more room. The main reasons I chose the Cape Dory were the lesser draft (by 6 inches) and the inboard diesel.

But the 27 is a fine vessel.

Go for it, man.

Best of luck, whichever choice you make.

--Joe

[Christopher]

Definitely the 27!  Nice boats all around.  There's a big difference between a 24 footer and 27 footer just in the way they move... plus the lead vs iron ballast.. Might as well sail.

I'm not sure the 24 has standing headroom, but the 27 has it and I can speak to no end about a lady's willingness to enter a cabin that she has to crouch into vs one that she can step down into and get about normally.  My wife wouldn't set foot below in a Commander but was fine down below in an Ariel.  It's such a small difference, but just having that added space overhead is a huge psychological difference.  If the 24 has standing headroom... then I'm just wasting bandwidth though :)

[tomwatt]

I'm real close to saying yes on this... actually sent the guy a note indicating I'm a probable yes, just still working the numbers. It's a Documented Vessel, although the doc has lapsed and current owner did not keep it up. I seem to recall there's a procedure for this, but I'll have to dig it up again. But I do want to go ahead and setup the documentation again.
How could you guys tell I'm Catholic?  :)
My b24 has standing headroom if you're about 5'7", otherwise it's "boat-neck-itis". But then lots of things about this particular b24 (which still has the blue Sailstar electrical faceplate on it) are a little peculiar. I agree it is a great project boat... otherwise I'd not have bitten in the first place.
Using the magic of my graphics software, I overlaid the two line drawings and scaled them to compare the differences. The b24 is definitely a fatter boat with an upturned bow, by comparison the b27 is much sleeker and even a little lower overall profile.
With the exception of the head and hanging locker, the interior space is almost the same (area wise). Oddly, the forward berths on the b24 have more headroom, as the deck sweeps upward there. The b27 is a bit of a squeeze by comparison.
Man, I think I'm switching boats in the middle of a stream. Still, this seems right. Now if I can just get my numbers to look right, I'll be in a wet boat!

[Jim_ME]

Hi Tom, I concur with the others.

The B27 has displacement/length (D/L) ratio of  380 which is considered heavy, whereas the B24 has a D/L ratio of  446, which is excessive.

The B27 has almost 2 feet more LWL length, and the LOA difference gives you a larger platform for your sailplan.

These are quite significant differences in specs and the B24 is considered fairly slow, even for a heavy cruising design.

The B27's bridge deck is an important feature, especially if you plan to do any offshore work. The B27's enclosed head is another plus (as you mention), as is the wet locker opposite it

From what I have heard and seen, the B27's hull is considerably stronger than the B24. The B24 displacement less its ballast is 2920 lbs, whereas the B27 is 4025 (again, quite a difference). The B24 may have to use more ballast to compensate for the lower density of the cast iron vs lead, and this additional volume probably creates more wetted area as well. If you are cruising, I think that the already overly heavy B24 would not be able to carry the extra weight (of gear, provisions, etc.) nearly as well as the B27.

Good luck with your plans.
Jim

[tomwatt]

Thanks Jim. I appreciate your insights. As it is, I'm a mathematical disaster... if it weren't for software to keep track of things, I wouldn't be able to balance my checkbook! I do kind of struggle with what all the numbers tell me. I could see the sail areas being very close, and mast height... couldn't work the disp/lwl, etc. understandings out in my brain at all.
Because this hull is another dinette model, the bridge deck is still not much of an improvement over the b24's... it's lower down than the full cockpit versions I see pictured around. Still, since I was looking at a fix for that anyway, I think I'm going to be okay... will make a nice locker inset to hold extra water or whatnot.
I'm still not sure this is a go-ahead... have some issues with titling, etc. Seems the current owner did not receive any of the USCG documentation to go with the vessel, so while it is marked and shown as a documented vessel by ID inside the hull, he has none of that... title search, etc. I'll give the appropriate documenting office a call tomorrow and see what we have to do to bring that forward.

[Jim_ME]

Tom, Glad to be able to help.

Now... at the risk of turning this into a Tri-lemma for you...and I don't know what area you are in...but have you seen this listing for a Cape Dory 27 w/ diesel for $3500 obo in Eastham, Cape Cod, MA? Sounds like a bit of a project, but a very nice design in the same range as the B27. Might be worth checking out.

http://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/1667758439.html

Maybe Dan or Joe is already familiar with it, since it's in their region?

[Jim_ME]

Here's the CD Assoc specs page for the  CD27...

http://www.capedory.org/specs/cd27.htm

[tomwatt]

Tom, Glad to be able to help.
Now... at the risk of turning this into a Tri-lemma for you...and I don't know what area you are in...but have you seen this listing for a Cape Dory 27 w/ diesel for $3500 obo in Eastham, Cape Cod, MA? Sounds like a bit of a project, but a very nice design in the same range as the B27. Might be worth checking out.
http://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/1667758439.html
Maybe Dan or Joe is already familiar with it, since it's in their region?

Hadn't seen that... any of you guys in the area south of Boston familiar with that boat/circumstances? I am familiar with the CD27 build. It's a nice boat.
I am having concerns about the titling for the b27 I was looking at... it may all clear up, or it may be a mess, can't say yet.
And I will admit to having a serious itch to get out on the water.

[Jim_ME]

Most of the B27s I've seen are the cruising version with the settee berths, and the cabin trunk seems nicely proportioned, and they have the bridge deck.

I have to say that the B27 dinette version cabin trunk seems less so--as if it was an afterthought and adaptation of the cruising layout, and feels a bit like the Bristol marketing department had Alberg try to squeeze about 10 pounds of accommodation into a 5-pound boat, and he had to compromise the cabin trunk form (e.g., looks aesthetically challenged, like my Westerly) and bridge deck. Maybe with a dodger they don't look so bad?

The CD27 gives you the full (exposed) sea berths of the settees, and the full aft galley, and cockpit lockers  both port and starboard, plus lazarette storage (with inboard). It also has the bridge deck, full height cabin trunk into the forward cabin, plus the small sized portlights (opening, I believe). A nice setup if you are cruising with a small crew and can make better use of the storage over extra berth(s).

This CD27 has such a simple, straightforward layout, that fits naturally within the hull and a nicely proportioned cabin trunk. The boat is 600 lbs heavier than the B27 and has another 6" of beam, so it is a substantially larger boat and the main cabin is and will feel much roomier.

My understanding is that Cape Dory is also step up in quality of build and materials/hardware.

This boat price is too-good-to-be-true, so it may turn out to be just that, or it could be one of the exceptions.

Again, Good luck,
Jim

[TOMT]

   TIM said it all! It depends how fast you want to go flat broke.

   If it were me I would go for the Cape Dory if its in decent shape.

                         TOM

[Jim_ME]

I'd almost certainly succumb to the temptation, get the CD27, and then ask for forgiveness later--perhaps donate the B24 to a charity as penance, put St Christopher up on the main bulkhead and go find a nice beach in the Abacos to try to feel guilty on. Send humble postcards back home...

[Tim]

go find a nice beach in the Abacos to try to feel guilty on.

LOL guilt is MUCH better on a beach in the tropics

[tomwatt]

go find a nice beach in the Abacos to try to feel guilty on.

LOL guilt is MUCH better on a beach in the tropics

Don't tempt me!

OK. I'll give the CD owner a call and see what's up. Says the engine runs. One has to wonder... there are so many different definitions to cosmetically rough... from the "this should be firewood" to "just clean it a bit".

[Jim_ME]

Ha. I should be careful tempting anyone...they may ask me to meet them there--and then I might have to get my boating act together, myself.

Yeah, ad says "...new sails, 2 cyl. Yanmar inboard diesel engine; runs great."

Should be interesting.

Looking forward to a full report.