Dilemna I'm in (maybe I should rename the boat Dilemna) w/Bristol 24 vs 27

[s/v necessity]

I own a CD28 that I keep on a trailer that used to hold a Bristol 27.  The Bristol 27 came with the trailer, and we toyed with the idea of keeping her for several months.  However we didn't like the dinette arrangement and the final straw was that a buyer literally found us.  So I've owned both boats.  I've cut, drilled, ripped cabinetry out of, and generally mucked about on both.

   The Bristol 27 we owned (early 70's I think) was by FAR better built, than the Cape Dory we currently own.  Comparing the two is almost apples to oranges  ***regarding Build Quality***.  I dislike cape dory's chain-plate arrangement and use of a hull liner.  That being said the Bristol also displayed a higher level of craftsmanship/care in general.  The Bristol also withstood time, abuse and neglect far better than the Cape Dory, FWIW.

   ***The Cape Dory has nicer hardware to be sure.  And also wins on almost any issue involving aesthetics.***

   I'm not sure this comparison holds true for all other Bristols or CD's.  I've never looked at any other Bristols.  It's quite likely IMO that a Bristol built in 1968 would be much different than one built in 1980.  Thus perhaps Bristols reputation for being of a lesser build quality is based on different models or later years.
   
    I would find it tough to decide between a B27 and a CD27, All things being equal.  However, I've been on a B24 and I would think that if the $$ were the same I wouldn't hesitate to move up the the B27.

[Jim_ME]

Hi Mark, I like the looks of the B27 cruising model, and the weekender model, it's just the B27 dinette model that seems out of character for an Alberg design with respect to the cabin trunk extension aft, and eliminated bridge deck.

I looked at a B27 (also an early 70s model) cruising model and nearly bought it. The main cabin did seem somewhat small for the boat size, a price paid for the enclosed head/hanging locker. It was also shy about 2" in headroom for me (I believe that it is 5'-10") and that was a factor. I have to remind myself that the Ariel has a main cabin that is just as big and many on this site do just fine without an enclosed head.

I did own a 1975 Cape Dory Typhoon for 12 years and loved it. I realized that the interior liner would create a problem if I even had to repair any serious hull damage from the inside, which I fortunately never had any need to. This would be limiting for an interior layout redo, but of course, that would be unusual for such a small boat. The hardware piece that I liked was the massive (for a 19 footer) bronze bow fitting with the integral opening chocks. (I replaced the Typhoon with a Hurley 18 which has the feature of no interior liner and is nearly 400 pounds heavier.)

A friend had a mid 1970s Cape Dory 30 cutter that I thought had a high quality interior, and it didn't hurt that he kept it in bristol condition. He is an engineer and seemed to like it very much.

You are the first person that I have heard compare the Bristols favorably to the Cape Dorys regarding build quality, but you certainly have more experience than I with them in general and with the two examples that you owned, and it is only a general impression that I got over the years and not from anything like serious research.

It may indeed be unfair to judge Bristols on both design, construction, and sailing performance based on the B24, but they are so common that it may be something that many people do. I actually like the B24's clean cabin trunk design and shippy sheer line. I liked the looks of the B26, but avoided it because of a preference for a full keel/attached rudder in those days.

I think my favorite Bristol of the ones that I have seen in person is the Ted Hood designed Bristol 32.

If Bristols in general do withstand time, abuse and neglect far better than Cape Dorys that may help explain the low price of this CD27, if it has been neglected. Still may be worth checking out. Having a good running (if it actually is) Yanmar diesel inboard seems like a nice feature.

Jim

[tomwatt]

After sleeping on it, my only hesitation for the b27 is making certain I can get the title clear. If so, then it's going to be a go. I'm concerned that the cd27 is going to leave me faced with a significant amount of work to get it wet, representing no real change in status.
The lack of bridge deck doesn't trouble me so much, as I face the same issue with the b24, and had already formulated a solution based on what I've read, looked at in photos and my own wild imagination.
As to the shape of the cabin trunk on this one... I was actually surprised to find it was a dinette version when I climbed in, as it seemed like the cruising model (lazerettes, cabin hump shape, etc.) from the outside. Honestly, if a non-dinette version had appeared I would be thrilled, but I'm okay with the galley arrangement.
We'll see what the USCG says about the documentation. Then I'll know whether it's a go or no-go.

[Oldrig]

Hey Tom:

If you can find out the CD 27's name, you might be able to track the boat through the CDSOA website and bulletin board.

It could be that they're moving up, or down, in size.

BTW, the 27 is probably the prettiest and best sailing of the Cape Dory boats--the one with the purest Alberg design. It was the boat owned by people who worked for Cape Dory Yachts, which says a lot for the vessel.

Good luck,

--Joe

[Jim_ME]

Tom, Here are photos for comparison showing both the cruising version (first two, which I feel have the standard Alberg trunk look, similar to the Ariel or A30) and the dinette version. I guess as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. (Again, perhaps the most offensive thing that I could say about the dinette trunk is that it reminds me of my Westerly. ;) ) Both versions are Alberg designed, and that is certainly a good thing.

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.
Jim

I do hope that somebody checks out that CD27 though, now that I'm curious about it. If I was closer to it I'd go see it myself.

[s/v necessity]

Wow, if that 1967 Bristol says SEA SKIP and Noank CT On the transom, then that was the same B27 I owned for several months.  She looks to be the same one when I compare her to photos of mine.

[Jim_ME]

Yup, same boat. I think that was for sale several years ago, and I was so impressed by the Triad trailer design, that I saved the photos to use for reference for a potential future trailer.

[s/v necessity]

It is a really nice trailer, we still have it :)  Small world. 

[Jim_ME]

Mark, It is a small world. It looked like a great trailer setup for a largish keel boat. I have a Triad single-axle float-off (with the extending tongue) trailer that i used with the CD Typhoon and now plan to use with the Hurley 18. The H18 draws 3'-3" (8" more than the Typhoon), so we'll see how that works with the trailer. I do have another 10-foot extension that I can add if needed.

Tom, I had a blast with the Alberg Typhoon for 12 years, so I do agree that the most important thing is get out there.

I'd still have the Typhoon, but was sailing farther out than it was equipped for and got a chance to get the H18 (very reasonably) that already had a bow pulpit and happened to have a bridge deck, and a bit more cabin room.



 

[CapnK]

Having read all of this, I think I'd go with the B27. My reasonings below.

Sailable: Both 27's are, not the 24, so it's out. Your time is much more valuable than you think - spend it sailing, not fixing, where at all possible. :) Trust me on this one!!!

Build: The 60's era B27 will likely have been laid up heavier and with better resins than a 70's CD. Both will have their own set of issues WRT build quality and builders choices, +'s and -'s, beyond that which all in all are likely to 'cancel out' in the long run.

Engine: Outboard, hands down. More cabin space, less noise, less smell, less weight, easier maintenance, lower cost.

Esthetics: Both are pretty boats. 2 things strike me about the look of the hump-roof B27:

• It appears to have smaller deadlights proportionately than the non-hump B27. If so, it will be easy to alter the overall appearance/sleekness of the cabin trunk by going to externally mounted plexi/Lexan deadlights of a slightly larger size and perhaps different shape. Done properly, you could give the trunk a whole new look much more like an A30/Triton/Ariel with some subtle changes here.
• The eyebrow - same thing. Instead of keeping the 'swoop' in that line, make the transition at the step more angular, and you could fool the eye into seeing something almost completely different from the original look.

Just some thoughts. :)

Re: the Catholic Guilt - yep, I'd be feeling the same thing. Have felt it before, would sure feel it again, if ever the time came. Boats is boats, and we love 'em, especially after we decide to take one under our wing. Just be sure to find her a good new owner, and you can assuage that somewhat. :)

[Mario G]

Seems like a good deal, It would have cost me 10k to upgrade my C-22 to the same level of my C-26 that I got at a great deal. 

good luck

[evantica]

I think the boats on the pic's above are beautiful boats! It's up to you what to do.

[Jim_ME]

Well...have to agree that both of the popular versions do look better than the rare B27 LM Model, which despite boasting even more room, for some reason never really caught on.

[CapnK]

Hmm, Jim, I dunno about that model...

It lacks a certain amount of that traditional, ummmm, shall we say, "atmosphere", and at only 1/6th the weight of the other two models, might not handle a snotty sea with much in the way of comfort...

On the upside - It sure will go a helluva long way between ports, though!

[Jim_ME]

Sometimes it just seems like "space" considerations trump traditional proportions. Probably could stash a lot of Tang in such a cabin.

Maybe "Lunar-lander" trunk works better as a descriptive term than a graphic/visual. S/V Apollo Oh No.

[Mario G]

This has gotten alittle to out there for me.

[Jim_ME]

Yes, so back down to Earth (reentry/splashdown) then...

Regarding the B27 interior, I had written in a previous post that the enclosed head was a nice feature (vs. the B24). However, while I was looking through my B27 photos I found these...from someone who did not appear to agree. I was struck by the heroic measures that he was willing to go to to rework the interior, remove a bulkhead and maintain structural support for the mast, put a portable head at the V-berth--and ended up with essentially the Ariel interior layout (albeit larger). I look at all the work and think that I would probably just sell the boat and get an Ariel or Triton/A30 (if seeking both an enclosed head and a more spacious cabin), but you have to admire someone with the audacity to say in effect.. "You know what...this is just wrong and I'm going to fix it." No doubt creating more room for adding the cabin heater was a consideration, but he also made an opening in the remaining bulkhead to enhance the feeling of spaciousness. It is a tribute to the B27 that the owner appreciated the other features enough to be willing to make such an investment in it.

So this does seem to confirm that the cruising layout, although you may be able to physically fit the settee berths and overlapping galley into the main cabin, may just "feel" cramped. Perhaps recognizing this may have led Alberg to extend the cabin aft and up to try to address it in the Dinette version, even at the expense somewhat of the more traditionally proportionate cruiser cabin trunk, and his typical companionway bridge deck.

[tomwatt]

Well, I've been stymied for the past several days. Couldn't raise the guy with the CD (phone was turned off everytime I tried), then my new lady in my life came and went like a rogue wave. So I'm back to looking at my b24 thinking, it's not such a bad boat, it's all paid for, and who know what I can do with it?
I would really prefer a better one, but it looks like my teaching position is now uncertain, so I'm a little unsure about doing anything but holding tight for now.
I apologize if the thread seems like a wild goose chase. I really do appreciate all the thought, care and advice everyone has shown. If I can get my "duck in a row" then perhaps I'll try to jump on a b27 or cd or similar. In the meantime, I'm going to finish scrubbing up my little ugly duckling, and see if I can get her in the water.

[Jim_ME]

Tom, That might explain why the seller of the CD27 had to drop the price so low--to compensate for not being available when potential buyers inquire? There is often something amiss when you find a boat priced so low, and that may be one of the issues is in this case.

Sorry to hear about your relationship. As my Dad would say to me...usually things will work out for the best, in time.

I actually like the salty looks of the B24, and its room. If you planned to make some long voyages with it, its sailing abilities compared to an Ariel or B27 might be a drawback, but then few boats do compare well to Albergs, in general. As a boat to get out on the water and have fun in, the B24  will be fine.

No real harm in going with what you got and upgrading to a bigger boat later, especially if job security is uncertain (as it is for many of us in this recession). If you repair the B24, you will get some enjoyment out of it and it will be easier to sell it for more later. Many people here have worked on boats a lot, and can give you advice and encouragement. You can share your challenges and progress by posting photos (as others have), so that you won't feel that you are doing it in isolation.

[tomwatt]

Jim, thank you for the comment/encouragement.
And a really heartfelt thank you to sailfar as a whole. Absolutely wonderful environment to explore issues for those of us with smaller boats and even smaller pocketbooks.
Before the ladyfriend arrived on the scene, I had a whole scheme setup to work on upgrading the b24, because it's size and space are really pretty okay for one person. And I don't have to be in a hurry when I eventually take it out for heavy-duty cruising. At least, that's the intent (fingers crossed!).