Sail to Puerto Rico?

[el cielo]

I'm curious about the length and difficulty of sailing from the southern tip of Florida to Puerto Rico. I know that this is highly variable based on a million different conditions. Assuming a Cal 20, sailing in the best weather window possible, taking the safest possible route, running to islands if weather gets iffy, what length of a sail are we talking about here? How would this sail rate difficulty-wise?

[Frank]

I would think it is not only possible, but reasonably safe in a 20, IF if if you were in no hurry...waited for windows and island hopped on down.Well prepared and no time limit is the key.

[el cielo]

Thanks Frank, I appreciate the reply. I don't have the experience for this trip yet, but in next couple of years my wife and I plan on moving to Puerto Rico. The obvious problem is getting the Cal 20 there. Since we're currently land locked there's no way to get much coastal cruising experience, so I've been thinking of moving there first, getting some coastal sailing experience for as long as I feel necessary and then returning for boat.

Considering a careful trip, foremost, what kind of length are we looking at...2 weeks, 4 weeks, completely unknown?

[el cielo]

What are the thoughts on sailing due east from a more northerly point and then south. Not terribly scenic, but faster. Also riskier. Can those with experience on this area chime in? Does having the safety factor of the islands to run to outweigh the possible speed of working with the winds. And we're talking a Cal 20 and a relatively inexperienced coastal sailor here.

On second thought, after reading about Indigo Moon's preparation for the I-65 route that seems pretty fool-hardy for the inexperienced without a nice engine and lots of fuel. I'm thinking a little boat with an outboard needs to keep itself near some land.

[Captain Smollett]

Considering a careful trip, foremost, what kind of length are we looking at...2 weeks, 4 weeks, completely unknown?

Hard to say...depends completely on the weather.

Look at the threads for Tehani, and Pixie Dust to give a good idea about how long one might have to wait for a weather window to cross to the islands, then figure you'll be doing that essentially down the entire chain.  In other words, with farther to go, you'll be waiting for a lot more windows; you'll have to plan spending a fair amount of time in port.

Tehani:  8 days in the keys waiting to cross to Bimini.  This was after a month and a half of cruising the keys, though, so they had a good read on the local weather patterns.

Pixie Dust:  13 days waiting for a window to cross

Some others on this site (s/v Faith for example) have gotten luckier with their waits for the windows, waiting only a day or so.  So, I guess the point is that it is hard to plan a specific time.

Once you get past The Exumas, things get pretty remote with fewer 'good' anchorages, and fewer options for amenities or repairs.  What route you planning?  Will you hop down to the DR/Haiti and cross to PR from there, so that you can continue the island hop, or take a longer passage from the 'Hamas to PR?

What are the thoughts on sailing due east from a more northerly point and then south. Not terribly scenic, but faster. Also riskier. Can those with experience on this area chime in? Does having the safety factor of the islands to run to outweigh the possible speed of working with the winds. And we're talking a Cal 20 and a relatively inexperienced coastal sailor here.

I think what you are describing is essentially "Route 65" or something close to it.  That's true blue water sailing, and I think most here would caution against doing this with your stated experience level on a Cal 20.

Not trying to be a naysayer, but you are looking at well over a week at sea, far from land, on a 20 footer not really designed for blue water passage making.  Predicting the weather for this passage will be more error prone (ie, you WON'T be able to make a prediction before leaving as to what your weather will be for most of the trip).

No, it's only my opinion, but I think island hopping with allowance for A WHOLE LOT OF TIME to take the trip would be the way to go.

[el cielo]

Yep Captain, I completely understand. The Route 65 on a Cal 20 sounds like a very, very bad idea. I appreciate the thread links, and I'll do my best to read up on others' experiences. It sounds like an extended vacation, to tell the truth.

By Pixie Dust:  13 days waiting for a window to cross do you mean from Florida to the Bahamas?

[s/v Faith]

Yep Captain, I completely understand. The Route 65 on a Cal 20 sounds like a very, very bad idea. I appreciate the thread links, and I'll do my best to read up on others' experiences. It sounds like an extended vacation, to tell the truth.

By Pixie Dust:  13 days waiting for a window to cross do you mean from Florida to the Bahamas?

Yes, She waited 2 weeks to cross to the Bahamas.

  and Rose and I were prepared to wait a couple weeks but were not even there for 12 hours.  Later in the voyage we spent more time trying to leave Cat Island to go to Conception Island.

  Another friend (the one who has the SC31, and is selling the Flicka) spent the entire season (fall 08-early 09) waiting for a window to get to the Bahamas and never got one when he was at the boat and able to cross.  Last year was bad too, several folks got across but then came back as the cold fronts were training through the Bahamas one after another...

  I think your plan is ultimately do-able, but you need to abandon any time schedule... you will be much less stressed if you can.

Good luck!

[Captain Smollett]

Later in the voyage we spent more time trying to leave Cat Island to go to Conception Island.

And this is an IMPORTANT point to not overlook.  You need an appropriate window for each hop from island to island, not JUST for the crossing from Florida to the islands.

Also, the jump from the DR to PR is over 12 hours aboard a sailboat (the ferries take 12 hours or so), so length wise it's about the same as FL to the islands (though without the Gulf Stream crossing).  Inagua to Haiti (same island as DR of course) is a bit farther.

So, not only will you have the hops between "close" islands (those only a relatively easy day sail apart), but several longer jumps as well.

[CharlieJ]

Sailing from fl to PR on a Cal 20 may be doable, but I certainly wouldn't look forward to it. It's called "the thorny path" for a reason- it's mostly a beat to windward.

There is shiiping available to transport the boat as deck cargo- if it were me, I'd check that out. Probably cheaper than sailing the boat down and lots less wear and tear.




Oh- and we waited three weeks in Marathon BEFORE that eight days >:(

[LooseMoose]

The CAL 20 is a very seaworthy boat and has more than a few trans Pacific voyages to it's credit so it is a given that the boat can do it safely.

You may want to check and see if you can find a copy of the article by K Chin from Cruising World on how he outfitted his CAL 20 for the California to Hawaii cruise. There also maybe some good online info around on Robert Crawford's 2008 TransPac race on his CAL 20 Black Feathers.But you really should get a copy of his book which is awesome.

Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[el cielo]

LooseMoose, I just finished reading "Black Feathers" and it was a real eye-opener. The thorny path is looking more painful than I expected.  :(

Does anyone have leads on good shipping companies with experience shipping sailboats?

[LooseMoose]

Hundreds of people every year sail down to Puerto Rico and the USVI so it is not all that thorny...

On the other hand you might want to try VI Cargo (http://www.vicargo.com/) which is both excellent and affordable.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[el cielo]

And this is an IMPORTANT point to not overlook.  You need an appropriate window for each hop from island to island, not JUST for the crossing from Florida to the islands.

Also, the jump from the DR to PR is over 12 hours aboard a sailboat (the ferries take 12 hours or so), so length wise it's about the same as FL to the islands (though without the Gulf Stream crossing).  Inagua to Haiti (same island as DR of course) is a bit farther.

So, not only will you have the hops between "close" islands (those only a relatively easy day sail apart), but several longer jumps as well.

Thanks for the info on the various passages Captain.

[el cielo]

Hundreds of people every year sail down to Puerto Rico and the USVI so it is not all that thorny...

On the other hand you might want to try VI Cargo (http://www.vicargo.com/) which is both excellent and affordable.

Thanks for tip on VI Bob, I'll check them out. Boats are made for sailing not shipping. :)

[CharlieJ]

Hundreds of people every year sail down to Puerto Rico and the USVI so it is not all that thorny...

I'm sure that's true, but few do it in 20 foot boats ;)

As I said earlier- sure, it's doable, but do you WANT to? Tehani is a solid blue water capable boat, but bashing into 20 knot winds in her is NOT comfortable.

All a matter of what you want to do of course, but I'd ship a 20 footer
unless I had an unlimited time frame

[Captain Smollett]

Hundreds of people every year sail down to Puerto Rico and the USVI so it is not all that thorny...

I'm sure that's true, but few do it in 20 foot boats ;)

As I said earlier- sure, it's doable, but do you WANT to? Tehani is a solid blue water capable boat, but bashing into 20 knot winds in her is NOT comfortable.

All a matter of what you want to do of course, but I'd ship a 20 footer
unless I had an unlimited time frame

The other key piece of info was that he said he was an INEXPERIENCED coastal sailor.  Couple that with the 20 foot datum, and that's why I mentioned caution in planning is warranted.

CAN he do it?  Sure.  But what's his margin of safety (which in small boats offshore generally comes from experience of the skipper) and "enjoyment index."

If an experienced dude like Charlie is saying "eh, probably not," I'd take that VERY seriously.  I don't think anyone is trying to be negative.

Now, if he does a handful of overnight or slightly longer coastal hops as "training" and builds his own confidence to handle the Cal 20 offshore and then decides he's up for the longer challenge, then I'd say more power to him.  The difference is that he would be making his OWN decision based on HIS OWN experience.

My two cents... (okay, I've given a few dollars in this thread)

[CapnK]

My thoughts, given freely and, of course, worth every durn penny paid for them. ;D

The trip itself *is* do-able (most things are, right? Even Laurence Abby Sunderland made it around Cape Horn...  ::)  :-X  ;D ), but getting the/a boat to the point that it is suitable for such a trip will involve a certain (read: probably large) amount of expense that you might want to weigh against that of shipping the boat "as-is".

Of course, once in PR you'll be gaining more seatime and sailing experience with this particular boat. That in turn should give you insight into what you might want to do in the future as regards your own "boat needs" for the long term, whether it be the Cal 20 or some other vessel.

I'm sure there are other considerations than those below, and that some of these points may have been handled already, but for a rough idea off the top of my head of things which fall into the "expensive but necessary" category:

Since this route is largely to windward on a relatively low-profile boat, put lots of thought into the fact that the she will be taking literally thousands upon thousands of gallons of water over the bow during the course of that trip. You'll need to create/have made a nice solid seahood for the companionway, a stout dodger and probably bimini (strong frame, no cheap aluminum...), spend time and money on rebedding all of your deck fittings and making sure things like hawse pipe, hatches, cockpit seat lids, and deadlights/ports are leak-proof.

Is the standing and running rigging up to par and decidedly capable of being relied upon for a voyage far from the chandlery and easy parts supply via some type of postal/shipping service? If not, there's a goodly chunk of change that you'll want to spend before leaving.

How about the sails - are they in good enough shape for 24/7 use over an uncertain period of time - weeks, or even months? Is the sail inventory capable of handling the wide range of conditions you're likely to encounter? Are the existing sails of a type suitable for voyaging (ie; 2-3 sets of reef points in the main, stoutly-made working jib, storm sails...)?

Personally, before heading way out there into the deeps, I would want to haul the boat and give some serious attention to the bolt-on keel; this might involve pulling bolts and having them x-rayed, and/or exchanged.

They do have nice looking lines, but how, and how well, does a Cal 20 sail to windward *in a rough seaway*? It looks like she has fairly flat bilges, that makes me think she might have a tendency to pound. Just an hour or two of that gets old - days and weeks of it might create a mutiny. :)

Etc, etc...

Don't get me wrong - I'm the absolute last person to want to pee on someone else's fire! ;D The trip could probably well be done on the boat as-is, with things just as they are - given, as noted above, a virtually unlimited time budget, and a corresponding "can-do!" attitude.

But this trip is definitely a large undertaking, and therefore a large expense if anything other than "perfect" happened along the way. It would be cheaper to take care of all the mechanicals here in the States prior to leaving, than out in the islands somewhere, if anything should fail or simply need replacing prior to failing.

The cost of prep for the voyage might well outweigh that of shipping the boat, and by far. And until you get the boat out there, and 'are doing it', you will have invested that money into an unknown - the boat might not be a very good choice for the trip, you or your mate(s) might not like too much windward or offshore sailing, it could be a bad weather year for that route and progress might be next to impossible, etc...

Anyway, in a nutshell: Both ways are going to be expensive - but what about boats isn't? :) I think that for me, unless shipping was something like 2x or more than the cost of prep, I would send the boat down to PR, and sail the snot out of it there, upgrading over time and with experience on the boat itself. Then, when (if) the time comes to return to the continent, do that trip in reverse, in a downwind, more 'gentlemanly' manner. :)

[Auspicious]

I would think that the cost of getting the boat ready to go -- even down the Thorny Path -- would be more than shipping as deck cargo.

Even ignoring cost, *I* wouldn't do I-65 on that boat. *I* might island hop (given four months) but probably not because I think it wouldn't be much fun on that boat. *I* would also want to do a good bit of work on the boat that would make it *less* fun once in PR. *You* might make other choices.

Do you have a trailer? You might consider driving to Chesapeake, doing some cruising, drive to Florida, do some cruising, pack the boat and ship it to PR. More fun, less time, money the same or less.

[el cielo]

Thanks for the great info everyone! I really appreciate the opinions expressed here. Considering I can have that boat shipped to the Virgin Islands for $1500 followed by an easy sail with the trades to Puerto Rico, I would be crazy to attempt the thorny path. You are truly correct that it would cost far more than that to properly outfit it to insure a safe trip. I think attempting a 6 week windward beat would involve more than just mutiny, but divorce.  ;D