No Batten Main

Greenman · August 15, 2010, 07:53:47 PM

I am in the market for a new main, and had planned on a fully battened main with 2 reef points. I just read John Vigors "Things I wish I had Known Before I started Sailing" where he recommends a main with no battens for a cruising boat.

What are the pro's and con's of batten vs no battens, assuming you have little to no interest racing around the buoys on Wednesday nights?

Thanks.

ThistleCap · August 15, 2010, 09:42:24 PM

Good timing. I'm right with you, Greenman. Now, I've not owned one, but from everything I've read from those that do use them, like the Pardeys, there's no down side. The rounded roach and battens are only a gimmick to beat the racing rules and add some square footage. According to some sailmakers, battens were the best thing ever invented, since they cause about 75% or more of their repairs for chafe, and torn pockets.

CharlieJ · August 16, 2010, 07:05:33 AM

Tehani has a battenless main. My cruising tri did also. Plus the mizzen.

I've always used battenless on cruising boats. So much less hassle. Nothing to worry with when furling or reefing, plus you can hoist or lower on any point of sail without having battens to hang on shrouds or whatever.

Ours is jib-headed and the boltrope run over the top. We have three rows of reef points. And all seams are
Triple stitched

ThistleCap · August 16, 2010, 09:41:03 AM

Charlie, I'm getting ready to send enquiries for quotes, and to determine what sailmakers have experience with such sails. Have you used a consistent sailmaker that you're happy with for your battenless sails?

CharlieJ · August 16, 2010, 10:16:21 AM

wish I could help but both times the sails were built by individuals. Our current sails are kits from SailRite, sewn by a good friend who is an amateur sailmaker( and a perfectionist!!). He doesn't do it anymore.

Jeff at SailRite was great to work with when we were designing them. Our working jib has reef points too, and he worked with us all the way.

s/v Faith · August 16, 2010, 11:17:30 AM

It will be tough to go wrong with a battenless main.

THat said, many of the biases against battens are the result of the chafe of partial battens. Full battens, with proper gear can be quite a good solution for a cruising boat.

Mine causes a quick, well set sail that maintains it's shape with very little trimming. I have noticed zero wear, and many have 'gone around' with the same experience.

Full batten mains stack easily on the boom, and (IMHO) make lazy jacks pretty unnecessary.

I am quite happy with mine, and many others share the same opinion.

Just something else to consider.

Greenman · August 16, 2010, 02:52:06 PM

Maybe the issue is I have partial battens now and they are a PITA. So full may be an option to none, and both are better than half.............. Got it. ;D

s/v Faith · August 16, 2010, 02:59:39 PM

Quote from: Greenman on August 16, 2010, 02:52:06 PM
Maybe the issue is I have partial battens now and they are a PITA. So full may be an option to none, and both are better than half.............. Got it. ;D

Yup. I think so.

AdriftAtSea · August 16, 2010, 09:36:50 PM

I'd also point out that if your boat was designed with a roachy mainsail, going to a battenless, roachless mainsail might result in lee helm issues, since you'll effectively be shifting the center of effort forward by removing the roach.

s/v Faith · August 16, 2010, 11:22:02 PM

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on August 16, 2010, 09:36:50 PM
I'd also point out that if your boat was designed with a roachy mainsail, going to a battenless, roachless mainsail might result in lee helm issues, since you'll effectively be shifting the center of effort forward by removing the roach.

That is a good point Dan.

FWIW, I went against my sail makers advice and elected no roach. I do not struggle with lee helm, but might have benefited from some roach... have plenty of room between the leach and the backstay.

Funny thing is that it appears Carl had drawn some roach in the plans...

marujo_sortudo · August 17, 2010, 09:07:17 PM

The Pardeys also strongly recommend battenless sails, and using the money saved to triple stitch, add chafe protection, and generally make a hardier sail. Apparently, they thought these sails lasted twice as long as battened varieties. They didn't like full battens either, but you can read what they had to say about that. I've no opinion there, myself, never having used them.

Helm changes are something to be aware of; however, you can sometimes make other changes to your sail area to balance this out as you have sails remade. IIRC, depending on what kind of self-steering you might set up, a little bit of lee helm can be desirable.

Captain Smollett · August 30, 2010, 10:55:37 AM

Just a couple of days ago we ordered our new main. The old one was deemed "too expensive to repair."

We ordered a battenless sail with -2% roach, triple stitched, 3 reef points (the cost for extra set of reef points was offset by no roach and no batten pockets) and no head board.

Plus, for some reason, our old main was cut a little small - luff was about 2 ft shorter than 'regulation' Alberg 30 mainsail. Measured the mast track + boom track and we have plenty of track for the regulation sail, so I have no idea why the smaller sail was used.

Cannot wait to try out the new sail.

Sent the genny and working jib to SailCare and they should be back soon. The other night I was "dreaming" of that drifter I want... ;D

Frank · August 30, 2010, 03:18:25 PM

You'll be like a kid on your birthday when it shows ;D Let us know how it works

maxiSwede · August 30, 2010, 04:02:23 PM

Out of curiosity... what's the point with no 'head board'?

I've been contemplating this kind of sail myself and is very interested to hear of your expectations and experiences with it. Right now that head board thing beats me though...

Good luck with it anyway, there's nothing on a boat that beats new sails. ;D

Captain Smollett · August 30, 2010, 04:57:44 PM

Quote from: maxiSwede on August 30, 2010, 04:02:23 PM
Out of curiosity... what's the point with no 'head board'?

I've been contemplating this kind of sail myself and is very interested to hear of your expectations and experiences with it. Right now that head board thing beats me though...

Good luck with it anyway, there's nothing on a boat that beats new sails. ;D

Don't know if this is just me; but my head boards catch in rig if try to raise not head to wind. This would defeat purpose of no battens.

CharlieJ · August 30, 2010, 09:30:30 PM

exactly the reason we went jib headed on our battenless main. There's just a grommet, and the bolt rope goes over the top and down about 6 inches, Only way to go IMHO.

maxiSwede · August 31, 2010, 04:25:22 AM

ah, ok guys, thanks for the response. I can't recall having ever experienced that prob with the head board though.... mybe just because that's what I 'm used to since 'medieval times' ???

I must confess I never even wondered why that board is there in the first place.

You've got me wandering now... :D ??? I guess simply as chafe protection from the masthead?

Captain Smollett · August 31, 2010, 07:49:16 AM

And reinforcing; there is a lot of stress on the corner. That's why both Charlie's and my sails had to be reinforced there other ways (his via the boltrope and mine via sewn webbing).

marujo_sortudo · September 01, 2010, 09:31:32 PM

Actually, the purpose of headboards is to increase sail area for a given spar length and possibly by beginning the roach on a battened sail. Of course, headboards are also structural, as they have to be to perform this purpose. Sometimes, in the olden days using different fabrics, they may also have been used to make a sail fit on a spar after it had stretched too much and no longer fit otherwise.

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No Batten Main