cape dory 25d

[jdsackett]

hi guys. just saw a 25d in my end of the world. very rare actually, not many of them in these parts. anyway, it's a one owner boat, very clean. sails are decent, rigging is ok. deck is solid, at least it seemed so to me. alchohol cooker which i dont really like but can live with. pretty much a bare boat, no dink, hank on sails, does have an auto pilot. question is, the guy wants 20k for the boat. i think thats a bit high. what do you fellas think??? ragards, j.d.

[s/v Faith]

That seems awfully high to me... unless it has a new motor and sails... etc.

  If you consider what is available on the market right now in this price range I would be looking for a lot of 'boat goodness' for that price.

  In average condition, I would expect to START the discussion at about half that number.... only because the 'D' is more rare...

  Where is 'around here'?

[jdsackett]

yeah i thought it was a bit high too. im in las vegas, the boat is in oxnard, cal. it is a clean boat, but no boat goodness. thanks for the input though, appreciate it. getting darn tired of looking at boats. about to the point where im ready to buy the next one i look at as long as i dont have to bail out the cockpit to sign the papers. thanks again. regards, j.d.

[Oldrig]

First the disclosure: I've owned and sailed a Cape Dory 25D since October 2003, and I love my little big boat.

At that time I paid around $15,000 for a boat in usable condition; I put perhaps another $5 to $8K into bringing her into better condition (barrier coating the bottom, having the yard sand and Cetol the badly ignored teak for the first season, overhauling the workhorse Yanmar 1GM engine, buying a roller furler and converting one of her jibs for use).

Since then, I've had to pay for expensive engine repairs, and I've bought a new main and genny.

If I added all that up, I'd probably ask $18 to $20 K for her now (and probably settle for $16.5K in a pinch.)

For some comparison:

This spring, a friend and I checked out a 25D in mint/perfect condition. Her owner loved his boat, kept everything in top condition (he's a retired Navy submariner). He was asking $24K for the boat, including jackstands and a Fairclough canvas cover and frame.

I thought that was kind of high for a 25D, but a friend who repairs boats for a living says that's not unreasonable for a boat that was maintained by a fanatic.

The 25D is a rare boat to find, especially on the "other coast." That said, you might be able to find the much more common Cape Dory 28 for about the same amount of money. It's a lot more boat -- too much boat for me.

Hope this helps a bit.

--Joe

[jdsackett]

thanks joe, and let me say if your boat was for sail for 16.5, i could be a player. if this boat was mint, i could go the 20k, cuz i really like these boats. after a looooooong talk with the broker who was aboard the boat at the time, it has original sails, original rigging, pressure alchohol stove, and is due for a haulout and bottom paint next year. it has some owner done cabinetry that looks very nice in the photos and is no doubt a clean boat. engine is a yanmar with high hours, but well maintained. not worried about that. those things will outlast all of us with good care. so, the owner wants 20k for a boat that needs sails, rigging and a stove. much as i would love to see myself as the new owner, just cant see my way clear. as i see it, the boat needs 8 to 10k to get it ready to go. thanks for the input though joe. appreciate hearing from an owner. regards, j.d.

[Oldrig]

Yep. That boat sounds like my boat before I bought her.

She had original sails, which I replaced over three seasons.

And she still has a monstrosity of a stove: a Kenyon pressurized alcohol/electric stove -- and the owner-installed shore power circuit is a monstrosity. (I use a little portable Coleman propane stove.)

If that's the case, you definitely shouldn't be paying $20K for it.

--Joe

[Jim_ME]

Here's a CD25D for sale that may serve as a comparable for reference:
http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/1896177162.html

And a CD28 (in your area, Craig) that confirms what Joe stated:
http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/1930848725.html

and a CD27...
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/1864500666.html

Good luck in your search.
Jim

[Jim_ME]

Although stretching the small boat range...in the same price range, there is this CD30...
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1889376432.html

A friend of mine owned a sistership for many years. Wonderful boat.

[Oldrig]

J.D. & Jim:

That 25D on Long Island has wheel steering -- something I've never seen or heard of before!

And the 27, at that price, is a STEAL!

IMHO, the 27 is the most graceful and beautiful of Alberg's designs -- except, possibly, for the Typhoon, which is a daysailer. According to Dave Perry, now at Robin Hood Marine and formerly marketing director for Cape Dory, the 27 was the most popular boat among the guys who built these boats. I chose the 25D largely because it draws 6 inches less, and access to my mooring is pretty tight.

If you're really interested in Cape Dories, be sure to check out the CDSOA (Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association) website at www.capedory.org.

Good luck!

--Joe

[Jim_ME]

Joe & J.D., I should have said that all of these designs are wonderful.

I was going to say that wheel in that 25D seems like the same unit that they put in the CD30...like this boat wants to be when it grows up and into all of this hardware/equipment. Personally, not sure it's necessary or desirable in a boat this size, but there it is, so apparently someone decided it was (IIRC, we all settled this question in another thread...?).

I also wondered how that single cylinder diesel is, I've heard/felt some pretty rough ones of different makes, especially at low rpm (like a bicycle with only one pedal), maybe the Yanmar is smoother? No experience with this motor. From the photos, it looks like you could eat off the motor...could be another maintenance fanatic out there...

I have to say that the CD30 I sailed on was very impressive. The cutter rig is so versatile, breaks up the sail plan into very manageable sized sails, keeps the air-draft modest, the windvane area clear (unlike some of the ketch designs), etc. Especially liked the club-footed self-tending staysail for tacking in close quarters.
(I'm obligated by membership terms to state at this point that, of course, it is WAY too big... ;)  )

The CD that I owned for 12 years was the Typhoon, and every time I see one I get a pang of regret for ever letting it go. Maybe I should look for another on Long Island NY where they may also be Super Deluxe Typhoons--all with wheel steering and diesel inboards too?  :D

-Jim

[Captain Smollett]

The CD that I owned for 12 years was the Typhoon, and every time I see one I get a pang of regret for ever letting it go.)

-Jim

Jim,

The first boat on which I ever took a-hold of the tiller was a CD Typhoon.  That was one sweet handling boat and defined, in part, my love of sailing.  I can still feel the way she came alive when 'in the groove.'

Have a grog to enjoy the memories...

JR

[Jim_ME]

Thanks, John,

Here's a photo from a few years ago, with the able seadog crew manning the foredeck.

-Jim

[Jim_ME]

I had my Typhoon set up on a float-off Triad trailer, so that I could launch/haul on my own.

On the subject of Alberg trailer sailers, I did just see this...

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/1894460290.html

Probably would need a good extension tongue and a deep ramp...to float this girl off and on...  ;)

[Oldrig]

I also wondered how that single cylinder diesel is, I've heard/felt some pretty rough ones of different makes, especially at low rpm (like a bicycle with only one pedal), maybe the Yanmar is smoother?

Jim:
Somebody (perhaps on the Cape Dory board) described the Yanmar 1GM as being "as simple and reliable as an anvil," and I use that description all the time. The engine is noisy, and because of the fairly broad transom on the 25D, my boat quickly acquires an unattractive "diesel mustache" from exhaust fumes back-eddying against the lower part of the stern.

But it sips fuel and usually gets me where I need to go. However, at a horsepower rating of 7.5, the 25D is underpowered by modern standards. In the case of the CD27, which originally had the same tiny engine, the boat was woefully underpowered.

Several 25D owners have repowered, some with the 10GM (rated at 10 hp, instead of 7.5), and a number have installed two-cylinder engines by Betamarine. (I think it's a 12 hp, but I'm not sure.)

I was once on a friend's 25D that had the two-cylinder Betamarine, and, compared to my one-lunger, it was like riding a Prius. My neighbor's CD27 was repowered with an 18-hp diesel, and he says he would not have bought the boat if it still had the original 1GM.

Still, it's more than adequate for the 25D, and the engine definitely fits into the "KISS" category. My wife and I once cruised under power for more than 100 miles (don't try to sail in Long Island Sound in July!). It was noisy as heck, but we made a steady 5-6 knots, which is what the boat averages under sail.

--Joe

[Jim_ME]

Here is yet another CD25D for comparison...for $20K. Looks well equipped and with a trailer. IMHO a very appealing as trailer sailer package...small enough to trailer (even long distance with a good trailer/tow vehicle) and launch/rig/store with self sufficiency, yet large enough to be comfortable/seaworthy. (Like the tiller, too.  :))

http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/1867606027.html (With link to lots of good photos. Interesting modifications to optimize for a couple...forward cabin to head with storage, quarter berth to nav station/counter)

-Jim

[jdsackett]

man that looks like a sweet one. denver is only a two day drive from here and could stop in utah and visit some friends on the way! might as well take a fishing pole while im at it and stock up on some trout. thanks for the link jim, will give that fella a call. regards, j.d.

[Oldrig]

Wow!

This guy has made some fantastic modifications to his boat. (I've bookmarked his album for future reference.)

My boat looks like something from a Sea Gypsy encampment by comparison.

Impressive! And she has a trailer.

--Joe

[Jim_ME]

J.D., Glad that the listing is useful to you.

In this market especially, though, and with the other comparables (including the CD27, CD28, CD30), the $20K may still be a lot. And although the modifications seem ideal for a cruising couple, as with any kind of custom specialized design, it makes the boat less versatile in general, and  narrows the market for resale (although may well be more valuable to those that need it).

However, with the trailer, you have an asset that can be resold, and will save a lot on transporting, launching/hauling, winter storage. So each year you can save what would be unrecoverable expenses, and those savings really add up over time. (That's the way I looked at investing in the Triad trailer for my Typhoon. It seemed like a lot to invest at the time, but I still have the trailer 15 years later, and it is in good shape--and I plan to continue using it with the Hurley 18.)

Good luck as you look into the boat.

Joe, I'm glad that you found the boat interesting, and may get some ideas from it.

-Jim

[rtbates]

That's what I paid for mine 8 years ago, But it came with a tandem gooseneck trailer and was in execellent condition. The surveyor mentioned 'bristol' twice! It's in even better condition now!!!

[Jim_ME]

Although it may be too distant to be of interest to you, JD, I just saw this 1984 CD25D listed on EBay, with many good photos of the boat and life aboard... Nice shot of her hard on the wind... Perhaps you and Joe will enjoy them as I have...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cape-Dory-25D-Diesel-Sailboat-1984-cruising-sail-boat-/170547365952?pt=Sailboats&hash=item27b56a4840

This is the second one that I've seen now with the forward head, so perhaps it was a production layout for these later boats?

-Jim