Sailing Problem of the Day 01

[Captain Smollett]

I got asked this question earlier today in a general discussion about sailing offshore and have been pondering it ever since.  It makes for a good, fun mental exercise while I cannot actually sail MY boat.   ;)

Problem:

You are skipper on a short handed (one other person) schooner rigged vessel sailing in squally conditions and fairly heavy seas.  The front end of a squall hits you on a run with full main and main staysail (on the fore boom) wing and wing.  The sea state precludes heading up.

You are overpressed, at least for the moment. The boat feels out of control at approximately 10 knots.

What do you do?

(I'll post my answer after I read several others).

[okawbow]

I would jibe the staysail to the same side as the main. Then I would douse the staysail in the wind shadow of the main. The main could then be sheeted in some to get some control. This could be done while still running, and only changing course slightly to help with the jibe.

[rtbates]

I'd grab the end of each sails furler/reefer line and put in a rool in a reef......Do it all the time..And that's the number one reason why I gave up on hank on sails years ago............

[Captain Smollett]

I'd grab the end of each sails furler/reefer line and put in a rool in a reef......Do it all the time..And that's the number one reason why I gave up on hank on sails years ago............

Though both headsails are on furlers, neither sail in this problem are.  The main is just the main, the the main staysail flies between the two masts - head at the main mast and lower corners attached to the fore-boom.

As for my answer(s):

My first thought was dumping the staysail to decrease sail area.  I thought one could conceivably just dump the halyard and bring the sail down like I've managed to do with a genny or working jib.

But the more I thought about this, the more I wondered if that is such a good idea.  We already have a lot of sail area well aft (and this MIGHT be contributing to why the boat is not handling well), and to dump the staysail is going to shift the COE even further aft...pushing even closer toward a possible broach.  Also, if we slow the boat, we increase the apparent wind on the mainsail left flying, thus making the balance problem even worse.

So, I am now wondering about simply sheeting in the main to 'stall' the sail or lessen ITS drive, thus pushing the COE forward a bit.  Also far from ideal (hehe, ideal be to get the sail plan right BEFORE the blow), but it MIGHT help with the control issue.

Finally, I also thought putting in some sort of drag device, even an improvised one, would help, too, slowing the boat and giving some directional stability at the same time, and let the sails continue overdriven if need be, at least initially.

I should also add that I've never actually sailed on a schooner, so for ME this is all just a fun MENTAL exercise.

[Auspicious]

Like John, my experience on schooner's is minimal. I have raced against Woodwind into Annapolis Harbor a number of times to the glee of the paying customers.

I try to keep things out of the water. To me a drag device of any kind is way down on the list of things to do.

On Auspicious I have cranked the main in toward centerline a number of times to depower the boat. That approach works well for me. You can grind in a long way and get a lot of reduction in effective sail area. Once the main is as far in as you can get it you can often start putting reefs in even heading down wind. Once down to the third reef even on a pretty big sail the rest is usually manageable by hand.

Lot's of sail ties help.

Given sufficient room I have done this single-handed. I lower enough main to get a couple of folds on the boom, haul the leech aft as hard as I can and more or less tidy the folds and put on a tie. Back to the mast to drop some more sail and repeat.  I also have a piece of line made up with a small eye at one end and a slip knot in the middle; the eye goes over my reefing horn and the line over the headboard and down to the reefing horn on the other side - the slip knot gives me purchase for a trucker's hitch. The whole mess works faster and easier than describing it and keeps the head of the main from riding up.

[Captain Smollett]

I try to keep things out of the water. To me a drag device of any kind is way down on the list of things to do.

Interesting.  I'd like to hear your objections to drogues, warps, etc.

[Auspicious]

I try to keep things out of the water. To me a drag device of any kind is way down on the list of things to do.

Interesting.  I'd like to hear your objections to drogues, warps, etc.

I don't have objections per se, just a belief that lines in the water are to be avoided. Accordingly while I would be happy to have a Gale Rider or series drogue to deploy in survival conditions (60-70-80 kts or more) I don't want to be dependent on anything that means lines in the water just because things are a bit nasty or bumpy. The chances of a line catching on something (rudder, prop, keel, whatever) and making a bad situation worse may not be high, but the impact is significant.

I've been in 35 - 45 kts conditions a number of times. I've only been in a storm once (F9 rising) and even then didn't feel the need to slow the boat down. No main and a staysail up worked fine. Just had to be careful to avoid running into either England or France. *grin*

[Captain Smollett]

Interesting.  Thanks.

That's a good point about putting lines in the water.

One thought, though...in this "problem" scenario, the boat was out of control - hard to steer.  Would that not be a good time to think "directional stability" that a drag can offer?

I don't KNOW that sheeting in the main would have slowed her enough to regain control.

Well, it's all academic anyway; thanks for the input - especially your real experience under staysail alone in gale+ conditions.  The real world does have a funny way of trumping theory.   ;)

Grog to ya, Dave!

[Auspicious]

One thought, though...in this "problem" scenario, the boat was out of control - hard to steer.  Would that not be a good time to think "directional stability" that a drag can offer?

Maybe. Recognizing this is YOUR academic exercise and you can fiddle with the rules as you like, I would assume that issues are a combination of a lot of sail up and the change in helm forces from the boat heeling over. Weather helm increases quickly as the boat heels. Downwind that means as the boat rolls the forces through the rudder to the helm are up and down as the boat moves.

Before sticking something in the water I would definitely work on sail plan. Pulling the main in is a good start, and sets you up to reef.

[Captain Smollett]

Maybe. Recognizing this is YOUR academic exercise and you can fiddle with the rules as you like,

Well, HOPEFULLY I'm not changing the rules as we go...   :P  ...don't mean to, anyway,

Before sticking something in the water I would definitely work on sail plan.

This is excellent, and gets back to a common theme on this site (in multiple threads).  It *IS* a SAIL boat first and presumably ALL the design compromises  that have been made in the hull center on that basic fact.

I like this answer since it 'returns to basics.'  A sailing "problem" should have a SAILING solution.

Thanks.   :)

Grog to everyone in the thread for ALL the "sailing" solutions...(and thanks that no one suggested "start the engine"  hahaha).

[Auspicious]

The next time I see one of the skippers of the Woodwind schooners here in Annapolis (they moor in my marina) I'll ask them for their ideas.