Engine Pull Thoughts

[Greenman]

I have an oil leak in my 1975 H27 SVE8 engine. I ma hoping it is as simple at replacing the oil pan gasket, but if not, I may repower, so this is a three headed question.

1. Is there anything I need to really watch out for while pulling the engine, otehr than the obvious, like breaking things? Including my aging back.

2. Once out I am going to clean up the engine compartment, rewire basically everything with tinned wire (for some reason there is a lot of poop wiring in my old girl).  Is there any thing else that is best done if you have the chanve while the engine os out?

3. If the motor is beyond econimical repair, a new inboard will run me around $6.5K installed, and I would seriously consider the outboard option, since you can get a brand new extra long shaft Tohatsu 9.8 hp for less than half that price. A $3700 savings is significant, but I would be losing my inboard deisel with it's amazing fuel economy and charging ability. Then again, all that coin buys a complete new suit of sails and an empty engine compartment gains a whole lot of storage.

I appreciate any thoughts? Thanks.

[Captain Smollett]

3. If the motor is beyond econimical repair, a new inboard will run me around $6.5K installed, and I would seriously consider the outboard option, since you can get a brand new extra long shaft Tohatsu 9.8 hp for less than half that price. A $3700 savings is significant, but I would be losing my inboard deisel with it's amazing fuel economy and charging ability. Then again, all that coin buys a complete new suit of sails and an empty engine compartment gains a whole lot of storage.

I appreciate any thoughts? Thanks.

I have an outboard rather than an inboard, and while there are pros and cons (mostly which have been debated to death), I'd like to offer this one bit of caution.

If you do this, you really are best served in thinking of your boat as engineless.  You really have to work with wind and tide a lot more than with the inboard mindset of just powering through everything.  I don't know your boating "philosophy" and don't want to assume one way or another, but just wanted to mention it.

If you are often cruising to a schedule or are just too impatient (  :P ) to wait for proper conditions, even for motoring, I'd urge you to REALLY think if an outboard is for you.  The outboard is great for getting into or out of a slip/marina, for example...getting the boat out to where you can sail...but "she's a sailboat FIRST" is more emphatic with an outboard.

At least this seems to work best for me.

[skylark]

What kind of transom do you have? do you have a good outboard motor mount? How big is the boat?

If you go with an outboard, get a two cylinder with remote controls and electric start. 

After pulling your inboard, scrub the bilges with soap several times, then paint them.  You might want to build a floor over the former engine mount.

[s/v Faith]

Repairing an oil leak should not be that great of an obstacle.

Even if you had to buy a diaper to place under the motor each time you sailed, you can buy a lot of diapers for the price / convenience of replacing the inboard with an outboard on the transom.

Your H-27 is not a good candidate for an outboard on the transom (IMHO).  Even with remote controls, you are going to have a long reach to raise / lower it.

[nowell]

I vote electric drive, since you can mount up to your shaft and everything. Obviously, its all up to you like, and Smollett is spot on with his response. I lean green, and would rather sail first. That being said, I currently use an OB but am still not far enough along in my restoration projects to warrant an ED yet.

[Godot]

I would also vote electric.  I've been reading quite a bit about electric drive lately, and it sounds like the time has come.  I think it would be a lot cheaper than a new diesel. 

http://www.electricyacht.com/

[nowell]

LiPo batteries are looking really good as of late as well. Guess the big push for hybrid cars is really starting to motivate the battery folks.

[Greenman]

So it looks like the oil leak is from the rear main seal. Kinda sucks. Not sure what I am going to do now.

[rorik]

I would love to have an electric motor on Mathilda. I used to scull my engineless Cheoy Lee and loved the quiet. That said, here's some reality.
I am just now installing a new Nanni 13hp diesel in my CD 28. Engine, panel, harness, cleaning old tank, new water separator, exhaust, etc is about $7500 - 10% of which is state sales tax. The new engine will use about a liter/hour at close to hull speed. With a 13 gallon tank, I should be able to run for ~40 hours.
The systems on the electric yacht page cost ~$4000 - $7000 (not counting batteries) and will push my boat for 1 - 1.5 hours before the batteries are dead.
From their site:
"Q:  What is the range of an electric system?
A:  This is a function of battery capacity, boat performance and power setting. A typical system will have 60 - 90 minutes of run time at full power.  At 6.5 knots, this translates into 6.5 - 10Nm. Reduce speed to 4 - 5 knots and the power consumption drops off dramatically.  Range will increase to 10 ? 15Nm.  Range can be extended further at lower speeds.  As a rule of thumb, every 1.25 ? 1.5 knot increase in speed requires a doubling of power."
Where did I put that sculling oar?  

[Oldrig]

Rorik,

Much as I like the idea of electric or engineless cruising, it just doesn't make sense, IMHO, for heavy displacement type boats like Cape Dorys (I've got a 25D). Pound-for-pound, a diesel engine, even my puny Yanmar 1GM, just makes more sense, given the current state of battery technology and the costs involved.

Your Nanni sounds like a good engine for a CD28.

Good luck.

--Joe

[s/v Faith]

So it looks like the oil leak is from the rear main seal. Kinda sucks. Not sure what I am going to do now.

It will be MUCH easier, and less costly to simply change the seal then it will be to re-power.  You will be much happier with your current motor then an outboard on that high transom.

IIRC, your access is a cramped trib down the cockpit locker... unbolt the coupler, (wrap shaft in tape, or clamp extra zinc on (INSIDE THE BOAT) so that the shaft does not fall out....

Unbolt the shifter from the transmission, drop the transmission and you should be able to change the seal with a seal puller.

  Really ought not to be too tough, just a cramped job.  Have a trusted friend to hand you tools, and drinks.

[Godot]

I would love to have an electric motor on Mathilda. I used to scull my engineless Cheoy Lee and loved the quiet. That said, here's some reality.
I am just now installing a new Nanni 13hp diesel in my CD 28. Engine, panel, harness, cleaning old tank, new water separator, exhaust, etc is about $7500 - 10% of which is state sales tax. The new engine will use about a liter/hour at close to hull speed. With a 13 gallon tank, I should be able to run for ~40 hours.
The systems on the electric yacht page cost ~$4000 - $7000 (not counting batteries) and will push my boat for 1 - 1.5 hours before the batteries are dead.

I guess it depends on how you use the system.  Hmm... You'd probably be fine with the 180ibl at around $5,000.  Figure $800 for a little Honda generator for when you need to exceed the range of the batteries.  That leaves about $1700 to buy a pretty large battery bank with.  Of course, you would have to find some way to charge the system as well if you don't plug it in at the dock or you are off on a long trip; but when not motoring you'd have a lot of juice to tap into for everyday use (would need a dc-dc converter ... not sure if that is included with the kit or not).  So, maybe it is not all that cheaper an initial purchase (you could probably build one from scratch for half that, I would think, although maybe not with the brushless motors).  And maybe it isn't the best if you frequently motor for long range (from what I hear, the little Honda generator will keep the boat going all day long with out drama if you need to do it occasionally ... call it a hybrid system and be the coolest kid on the block).

But, it is quiet.  It is instant power.  It is much cleaner in the engine compartment.  The maintenance should be significantly easier and more pleasant to perform.  If the wind is blowing and you are sailing at a decent speed, it will work to refill its' own fuel tank (batteries).  The price seems pretty competitive unless frequent long range motoring is anticipated.

All this to say that while you could certainly find reasons not to go electric (the vast majority of the sailing world doesn't even consider it, after all), it is currently, as things stand today, a valid choice.  Especially for Sailfar style boats.

If I ever get my bank account stabilized above triple digits again  :-[ and I look to buy a boat with a run out or dead inboard motor; I suspect this is the way I will lean (although I might end up going for a home brew system).  But then, I really hate motors.

[rorik]

Like I said, I would love to go all electric, but I will never have enough money to retire which means I will always need to be be on time somewhere. With winds in Puget Sound tending to be all or nothing,an electric system just doesn't have the range at this point.

[s/v Faith]

Like I said, I would love to go all electric, but I will never have enough money to retire which means I will always need to be be on time somewhere. With winds in Puget Sound tending to be all or nothing,an electric system just doesn't have the range at this point.

Electric motor, mount, controller, cabling, appropriate energy storage system, appropriate charging system.... etc...

$3500 - $10,000....

New oil seal

$5 - $15 bucks....

   ;)

[nowell]

Well said Adam! I am actually looking at the cheapest system possible. A decent bank with a Torqeedo 2.0. I mean, if I already have an outboard mount, and the Torqeedo 2.0, at 42lbs for the long shaft model, would make it simple enough to pull off once under way, and store somewhere below decks. That way you could spend a little more on a larger bank, wind, solar, and a honda gen (if really wanted).

Hopefully they come out with a long shaft version of the new 4.0 as well. Thats a sharp looking unit!!

[Jim_ME]

Have to say that I'm with Craig on this one, (although I don't know if that $15 includes drinks... ;)). From his description, not a lot of labor involved, so even hiring someone to pull that tranny and replace the seal may be reasonable option?

[Greenman]

So, I got the bad boy out in around 2.5 hours, it is going to the local Yanmar repair shop next week. According to the mechanic, it should be a fairly easy and cheap fix. Which is great news because if it's not too costly I can spend more on getting it tuned up.

I hate to rain on an idea, but I am a bit too reliant on electricity to use it on propulsion. I would much rather use it for little things like refridgeration to keep my beer and more importantly my wifes insulin cold. And I am too much of a non purist to not crank up the motor when the wind dies.

Sorry, Flog me now :D

Thanks for all your input, I will post photos of the pull/cleaning and install later.

[Godot]

Oh, no flogging.  I've just been seduced by the concept of electric motors.  I don't use one, I just want one.  If you can fix your diesel quickly and cheaply I'd say the choice is a no brainer.

[svaletheia]

Oh, no flogging.  I've just been seduced by the concept of electric motors.  I don't use one, I just want one.  If you can fix your diesel quickly and cheaply I'd say the choice is a no brainer.

+1.  When the day comes to retire Big Red (also occasionally called 'Ol Bessy, when she's cantankerous), I'll be going the electric route myself.  Until then, though, I'll repair her as long as the costs remain reasonable.

[s/v Faith]

Just for the record, I am not opposed to electric propulsion.

  I think it is a cool idea, and may well work out well for some.

We have had a thread discussing it here since 2005.

It just did not sound like the best advice for the OP, since he was evaluating the costs involved.

My recommendation he repair the current motor was based on his post, not any opposition to going electric,
I hope to hear more about others efforts to develop workable electric drive systems.