Foulies advice?

[Oldrig]

Hi all you SailFarers:

Here's my problem: I am signed up for a round-trip sail from New England to Bermuda (as posted in an earlier thread). My current foul-weather gear consists of a set of West Marine coastal stuff (a blue bib that is quite waterproof, because I have hardly ever worn it--and a yellow-and-blue jacket that's seen better days). I have just washed and re-waterproofed the jacket, and it seems much better than in recent outings, when it leaked like a sieve. But I don't think it would really stand up to offshore conditions.

My current plan calls for using the existing bib and buying a Grundens jacket, which won't be yachty, but should be waterproof--and relatively cheap.

My wife is already pretty upset about the trip, which departs on her birthday--and she would probably go through the roof if I bought a top-drawer, breathable offshore jacket from Henri Lloyd or Gill or Atlantis. (Especially since I'm officially unemployed and living off part-time and freelance earnings.)

What do those who have been there say to this plan?

Thanks again, and Happy New Year!

Best to all,

--Joe

[s/v Faith]

Do you have a good set of poly-pro long underwear?  I have found that even poor gear is made better by poly-pro long underwear.

[Auspicious]

+1 on the long underwear - good inner layers are the bomb offshore.

The reality is that you'll end up keeping the long underwear on all the time as "clothes" below and pull your foulies on top to go up for watch.

I have four sets of long underwear and only two sets of foulies (coastal and offshore).

[Oldrig]

Thanks guys,

Yes, I've got some good-quality polypro underwear, which I have worn under my current leaky foulies.

And, they take up very little space in a duffel bag.

But I am still curious about what sort of foulies to bring on this trip. Some of my cruising friends swear by Henri Lloyd, while others suggest Gill. I've also been impressed with the Atlantis brand--but all three are out of my price range right now.

Any thoughts?

--Joe

[Godot]

For what it's worth, I used my Ronstan inshore/coastal gear on the recent January trip aboard Auspicious from Abacos to Beaufort.  They where adequate for a one shot trip; but after getting drenched several times (while lashing an errant dinghy, and the occasional wave that made it into the cockpit after the dodger got damaged) I appreciated that if I spent much time off shore (my definition ... Auspicious calls this coastal sailing), a better offshore set would probably make life more comfortable.  I stayed dry after one drenching. Even after two or three. But eventually I got wet, and it seemed that after being thoroughly soaked, the gear didn't do as well until it became fully dry (which was difficult, even in a well heated boat).  Still, even if I felt wet, I generally wasn't too cold.  This is Ronstan Airtech breathable stuff, btw.

BTW, I found a good deal on Under Armour Coldgear tops and bottoms and pretty much lived in them. As things got colder I added a fleece, another pair of poly-pro long underwear, a second, then a third fleece. I wore heavy wool socks under oversized seaboots instead of my normal deck shoes.  I only got really cold on my last midnight watch after we crossed the gulf stream (when the temperature dropped significantly).

So, based on no experience outside of this recent January trip and my personal tolerance for discomfort, I suspect you would be ok for a one shot trip to Bermuda in June with your current gear.  Especially if you have a good dodger.  

YMMV

[AdriftAtSea]

Joe?

If you want, you can borrow my Musto jacket, which is an MPX series off-shore one... Let me know.

[Bill NH]

I have both a set of Grundens and a set of Henri Lloyd gear.  The Grundens are my work gear and last forever on big schooners and tugboats.  However, make sure you buy a jacket with the neoprene cuffs, as not all the Grundens jackets have them.  Otherwise the first time you haul on a halyard over your head the cold water will run down the inside of your sleeves and you'll curse a blue streak. The cuffs on my H-L gear are double cuffs that pretty much keep everything out.

With Grundens you'll also miss things like fleece-lined collar and faceflap, fleece-lined handwarmer pockets, and a good-fitting hood.  With my Grundens I wear a small towel torn in half lengthwise (like a scarf) around my neck to catch the dribbles that work their way in at the neck.  A ball cap helps with the "clunky" hood.  The heavier material makes them a bit bulkier to move around a small boat in...

One nice thing about the Grundens is that you can duct tape the legs of your bibs onto your seaboots and take them on and off fireman-style (I'd never do this to my expensive H-L gear!).  Your feet will stay toasty warm and dry and you can be dressed and on deck in a jiffy.  

All in all Grundens will stand up to whatever you put them through.

[Oldrig]

Dan,
Thanks for the offer.
I'm going to check with some friends who are former professional delivery captains (one has made the trip to Bermuda six times).

Bill,
Do you think Grundens would be overkill for this trip (6 or 7 days each way, with a four-day layover in  St. Georges)?

Thanks,

--Joe

[skylark]

I have this one.  It is not for warm weather.  It can really heat you up if it is over 60F.  The sleeves are great, but the neck area is a little too open to spray, it doesnt' close as tight as I would like.  It is quite heavy and can make you a bit clumsy.

However, for sitting in the cockpit on a cold, wet night watch, it is perfect.

http://www.grundens.com/grundens_products/protective_layer/professional/pvc_cotton/brigg_34_anorak.html



I have Tractor Supply store bib overalls that seem to be made almost the same as the Grundens type. But if you are scrambling around on deck it is pretty easy to rip cheap bibs, so the Grundens might be worth it.

These are my favorite type of long underwear, with polypropelyne against the skin and a wool layer on the outside, very breathable and very warm.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___91869

I have tried cotton, cotton-wool, polypropelyne and polypropelyne-wool, and polypropelyne-wool is far superior.

[Bill NH]

Bill,
Do you think Grundens would be overkill for this trip (6 or 7 days each way, with a four-day layover in  St. Georges)?

I'd hesitate to recommend buying gear that you might not use for your normal New England cruising as well. Grundens are definitely more "workboat" than "yacht"  - you might find them a bit heavy and less comfortable for regular wear on your 25D... If you think you'd use them for more than the Bermuda trip and don't mind their utilitarian nature then I don't think they'd be overkill.  That said, you might be more comfortable and thus use a good set of "yacht" gear more regularly though.  I guess it comes down to personal preferences, as either gear will do the job.

PS Another difference I forgot to mention is that Grundens jackets don't have pockets (nothing to foul on fishing gear).  For some people this is no big deal, but others need their pockets to stay organized...

[ThistleCap]

Henri Lloyd does indeed make great gear.  I had a set I used commercially for delivery work, tugs, and shipping.  I had an offshore set that had lasted me 30 years, so another example of getting what you pay for, and as long as they lasted, more of an investment than a casual purchase.  I was thinking of replacing them when I lost them in Hurricane Katrina.  They were in the truck when it disappeared in a 20 ft. storm surge.  I just bought a drysuit for winter canoeing, so I feel your pain in investing in higher-grade gear, but I bit the bullet and am glad I did.  A couple points to keep in mind, if I may.  One, you've had a couple good recommendations about good sleeve cuffs and legging closures, and velcro closures you can bind up tight to back-up the cuffs themselves, but one thing not mentioned so far is color.  I would recommend against any dark color, like blue or red, or white.  Red shows up in daylight, but is black at night.  White is good at night, but makes you look like just another whitecap during the day.  Go instead with yellow or international orange in that order.  If the suit doesn't have good reflective panels, add them.  Two, foul weather gear is your entire shelter system.  I've made a couple dozen or so trips to Bermuda.  It's one of the most beautiful places you'll ever see, and the people are fantastic.  The downside is the area between the U.S. and Bermuda is the birthplace of Atlantic storms, so it's rare you get to Bermuda without paying your dues on the way.  I've spent a week in my foulies at a time, probably three weeks on some ocean crossings, often even sleeping in them, so good gear pays for itself.  Mostly, I wish you a wonderful trip.
Jim

[Oldrig]

Thanks! This is the kind of feedback I was looking for in my initial post.

Bill: Workboat stuff is fine with me--I proudly wear my fading "Port of New Bedford" baseball cap around, and I positively beamed when somebody addressed me in Portuegese last year--but you're right, I probably wouldn't use a Grundens jacket aboard Creme Brulee after the Bermuda trip, although it might come in handy for slogging around onshore in New England rainy weather.

Jim: Your recommendation of heavy-duty yachting-grade foulies sounds like a good one--as is your caution about the weather between the East Coast and Bermuda. I also appreciate the advice on color. And it sounds like you have the same kind of experience as my sometime colleagues who were delivery skippers in their younger days.

Dan: Thanks for the offer on borrowing your Musto foulies. I'm going to see if I can scrape up the cash for a good offshore-grade set of my own, but it could be tough as I move from one independent-contractor's job to another.

This board is the greatest!

--Joe

[maxiSwede]

Henri Lloyd does indeed make great gear.  I had a set I used commercially for delivery work, tugs, and shipping.  I had an offshore set that had lasted me 30 years, so another example of getting what you pay for, and as long as they lasted, more of an investment than a casual purchase.  

They're good that's for sure. A bit over my budget price-wise though. It's quite funny, A bit over a year ago I was given a full set from a guy in the Swedish VOR (volvo ocean race) team that he had used on during one of these races. 2005 IIRC.

The foulies are the best I ever used, light weight and still water tight. The funny part though, is that it's amazing how worn it is. Not worn out, but simply very worn. One year, on race and some 30000 miles wears on of those sponsored 'suits' out pretty well. For cruising I could probably go 30 years too in a new one.

H. Lloyd gore tex off shore technology or something on the tag.

Now a days, chasing the sun, it's usually too warm, so uses a thin polyurethane gear that I bought ages ago for trekking....

[okawbow]

I know it's not real sailing gear, but...Cabellas has their Gore-tex guidewear systems parkas in the bargain cave for $99.88. They have a zip out liner and are very warm. These are normally $319.95. I've worn them on shore, and it is very warm and dry.

[shellback]

I personally prefer commercial fishing gear.  It wears like iron and dries out pretty quick.  I've had my Grundens for almost tens years now and a lot of that was working on the railroad in all kinds of weather.

The elastic inner cuffs are probably pretty important.  They weren't available from the dealer I got mine from at the time, but I've made do by duct taping the cuffs if it gets really nasty.  Like someone said you don't want water running up your sleeves when you're hauling on a halyard or making a sail change on the bow.  I've even thought of getting some fisherman's sleeves that go from your wrists to up past your elbows to take care of this problem. 

When I was a kid I suffered from exposure from lack of good foul weather gear.  I took up commercial fishing for a summer job as a teenager, and that's when I really got turned on to how much better the commercial stuff was (back in the 60's) than what was available to yachties.

Grundens also have some nice fleece add ons like the boot liners and big liners with built in knee pads.

I chose orange so I'd show up if a fell overboard, but I think yellow would work as well.

Wear those Grunden's with pride!  Hey, the guys that make their livings day in and day out in nasty conditions practically live in 'em.

Ken

[Oldrig]

I also vote for commercial gear.

I bought the low-end Grundens jacket for my trip to Bermuda last summer, stuck some SOLAS reflective tape on it, and I was good to go.

I'm still wearing a West Marine bib underneath, but I'll replace that with Grundens as soon as I can afford it.

Yes, it can get hot inside, but if you put a microfiber face towel around your neck it helps a lot. And like Ken says, it dries out quickly and should last for years.

--Joe

[shellback]

Hi Joe,

I'm glad someone else thinks the same way.  I'm more for practicality than looks.

I'm looking at getting a second Grundens Brigg jacket.  This time I'll get it a little roomier and with the built-in cuffs inside.

Glad to hear things worked out for you fouliewise. 

Ken

[Oldrig]

Hey Ken,

I'm also using the Brigg jacket, but I didn't opt for the neoprene cuffs.

However, after taking an occasional wave down my sleeves (ugh!), I think I'd get the sleeves next time around, although somebody I know who also wears Grundens says he uses thick rubber bands around his wrists to keep water out.

Since he worked as a stern man on a lobster boat, he had access to plenty of rubber bands--they put 'em around lobsters' claws to protect themselves and customers.

Still, I think I'd stick with the neoprene cuffs.

Best,

--Joe

[hearsejr]

was at the consignment shop in Oriental Nc, and I think they had some good looking fowl weather gear for sale cheap...it didn't fit though. lol.
it's only a bout an hour ride from me...I think they said they will ship stuff too. if not I can box it up and get it loaded in the mails for ya.
  here's their  info,
Marine Consignment of Oriental
708 Broad Street
PO Box 814
Oriental, North Carolina 28571
(252) 249-3222
email  marineconsignment@...
Cindy Ellis and Andy Tackett Owners