Snapdragon 26

[CharlieJ]

My Seafarer Meridian had a glassed in pan in the main cabin, hiding the bilge- zero access. And the keel bolts were under there. I cut it out, added 12 new bolts (in addition to the original nine ;)) and put in a removable wooden sole. Strips of oiled teak. 5 screws and it's all out.

In addition, I gained an inch and a half of head room :D

[Jim_ME]

In addition, I gained an inch and a half of head room :D

That's a win-win...access and more headroom. Nice work.  :)

[Ghostyman]

My Snapdragon 26 (hull #99) had the engine torn out and the engine compartment converted to storage. Does anyone have pictures of the area I can use to rebuild the area. Needed are approximate engine mounts, battery and wiring placements and anything else you can supply. I really appreciate anything you can provide

[Jim_ME]

Welcome aboard, Erik. :)

Since the SD26 is only about 4500 lbs base displacement (less than an Meridian or Ariel 26), many would suggest considering a refit to an outboard motor. I would expect that an outboard motor/well refit would cost considerably less than an inboard diesel.

I have not seen an inboard version in person, but see that the drawing shows and notes the outboard area well cover noted as "Outboard Well or Locker", so that should help. [See photo below of drawing, and outboard well, with cover removed]

One issue would be that on the outboard versions, since the well/outboard is located directly over the rudder, the top of the rudder slopes down at maybe a 45 degree angle, and perhaps starts a bit lower, to provide a space for the outboard lower unit/prop above the rudder blade. So to replicate that factory outboard arrangement, you may have to cut that rudder top in a similar way. (I have photos of the outboard rudder setup at home, but am not there now, and could not find another photo online).

The alternative would be to install an outboard motor/bracket on the transom and leave your rudder as it is. I do like having the easy access to the motor from the cockpit that a well provides--especially for manual pull starting, or if you may want to turn the motor a bit when maneuvering in tight situations...

One can setup a motor on a transom bracket with remote for throttle/start/gear select, but if you should need to manually pull start, that can be difficult.

I find that the well makes it easier to lift the motor out to service it, while standing in the cockpit, especially compared to lifting from a bracket while hanging out over the pushpit rail doubled over, or from an unstable dinghy. Also the outboard is more secure in a well with a locked cover, compared to hanging out on a bracket.

When you have an inboard, you usually have to bring the whole boat to any mechanic for servicing (unless your mechanic makes "house calls"), and that may mean a very limited choice of mechanics. With an outboard, you can pull it out and take it anywhere you want, or even replace it fairly easily. This is especially handy if you are on a cruise, and want to fix things quickly and keep going.

There are some advantages to inboards, especially in larger boats...say over 8 or 9k base displacement, but for a coastal cruising boat of your size, modern reliable outboards have many advantages. 4-strokes are quiet and fuel efficient, and although larger than their 2-stroke ancestors, if you are building you well, you can just make itas large as you need to. I would expect that an 8 hp would be ample (I believe Charlie uses a 6 hp 4-stroke on his Meridian, but you have a bit more beam, windage, and drag with the twin keels, so might go a step larger.)

Here's a link to James Baldwin's website, boat projects section, where he builds some outboard wells (on a Taipan 28, and even an Alberg 35)
http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/improvement-projects/249-outboard-1.html
He infills the hull surface around the lower units, which must decrease drag, but would of course fix and prevent the motor from being rotated. His boats seem mostly optimized for offshore voyages, when you are sailing most of the time, and I expect maneuverability is less of a concern than a coastal/inland waterways cruiser, where you will be anchoring/mooring/docking a lot.

[Jim_ME]

Don't want to leave the impression that you have to get a 4 stroke. I know that Charlie loves his (the quiet and fuel economy). I think that it was Craig that wrote that he had gone back to a 2-stroke, if I recall due to its simplicity and ease of repair.

For me, tightwad that I am, a new 4 stroke was never a comfortable option. Last summer I picked up a Circa 1990 Johnson 9.9 extra long shaft with charger as part of a trade for about $300. I saw another similar one locally in CraigsList for $250. I thought about picking it up as an interchangeable spare motor. Would fit the same bracket/well, tank/hose, etc.

At these prices a substantial repair/component replacement can be upgraded to a total-motor replacement without a lot of agonizing and grief. The scrap metal/ballast value of a dead Johnson 9.9 must be close to $100, anyway...

One thing on the SD26 outboard well being directly over the rudder is that you have to position the motor height properly. If it is too long the rudder will hit the lower unit bottom and not go past amidships, unless you lift the motor up. (I found this less than ideal from a convenience standpoint, after awhile... ;))

With a transom-mounted motor, the deeper super-ultra-extra-long shaft the better you can raise it and yet keep the cooling water intake port submerged, and reach it to pull start when your electric starter craps out on you or the battery goes dead. But in wells over rudders height does matter. I would design the outboard clamping block with some ability to adjust the height, for the initial motor, and also for when you have to do the inevitable-total-outboard-replacement in mid cruise, to another used motor that may have a different height/shaft length.  ;)

[CharlieJ]

Jim- I  use an 8 HP. I WOULD have gotten a 6, but- there were none available in the entire southern Louisiana when we got this one, and we had a dead engine-Choice was buy an engine or truck the boat home- you are NOT gonna sail much in the ICW in Louisiana. Plus we'd had TWO used two strokes die on us on this same trip. The Yamaha was the third engine on the one cruise.  So I bit the bullet and bought a new engine. I  chose the Yamaha mostly because of the gear shift on the engine tiller, since it lives in a well on Tehani. I have NEVER been sorry. You can see the gear shift in this pic. The rubber part of the handle has been shortened by half from original. Now it no longer interferes with a locker latch :)

Additionally, at that time the 6 was a 2 cylinder and weighed exactly the same as the 8. NOW the 6 is a single cylinder and is closely associated with the 4 HP

Two cylinder engines are far quieter, and have far less vibration  than singles.

As for fuel economy- if you are traveling much under power ( read ICW) it can make a HUGE difference. With my old 9.9 Evinrude 2 stroke I was burning a 3 gallon tank of fuel about every 2 hours 40 minutes. (we had two 3 gallon  tanks installed) And carried three 5 gallon jugs of fuel in the cockpit. With the 4 stroke I got just under  8 hours off the same 3 gallon tank.  Have since upgraded to a pair of 6 gallon tanks, usually filled to five, and 2 - 2.5 gallon jugs in the cockpit. I think in the long run, the fuel savings have more than paid for the extra cost of the Yamaha

[Jim_ME]

I  use an 8 HP. I WOULD have gotten a 6, but- there were none available in the entire southern Louisiana when we got this one...

Oops, My Bad. I did remember that there was a contest between the two...but my memory must have watched the video with the Alternative Ending where you bought the 6 hp motor...2 cylinder, of course...

...we had a dead engine-Choice was buy an engine or truck the boat home- you are NOT gonna sail much in the ICW in Louisiana

Was pretty sure you didn't give much consideration to solving the problem by deciding to sell Tehani and find another boat with an inboard diesel...

As for fuel economy- if you are traveling much under power it can make a HUGE difference. With my old 9.9 Evinrude 2 stroke I was burning a 3 gallon tank of fuel about every 2 hours 40 minutes. With the 4 stroke I got just under  8 hours off the same 3 gallon tank.  I think in the long run, the fuel savings have more than paid for the extra cost of the Yamaha...

So from 1.12 gal/hr to 0.38 gal/hr...about triple the fuel economy? That is huge. Not just the 4 cycle vs 2 cycle factor, but maybe also reflects that the 9.9hp was far larger than you needed for you boat...?

[CharlieJ]

 ;D ;D

As is the 8 HP actually. I usually cruise with the throttle set right at the "start' setting, which gives me hull speed. And I have the standard prop. But the 6 would have been the same weight, so no gain.

Now if they'd make the FOUR HP in a 2 cylinder --- ;D

And I have pushed Tehani with a 2.2 Merc.. Took a LONG time to get speed up, and even longer to stop- longer? forget it.  ;)

Oh, and the only gain I see I would realize with a hi torque prop would be in reverse. And I know just how far Tehani fore reaches, so I seldom even have much need for reverse, except for backing out of a slip. I've thought about one, but have been afraid it would screw up the fuel economy.

Back in the 50's an OLD timer ( I guess that's me now ;)) told me- "son- drive the boat like you don't HAVE reverse- then if you ever need it,, it MIGHT work for you". I've always remembered that.

Court is still out on the new prop  :)

Oh, and on the 9.9. Yes it was way large. We started the trip to Florida with a Merc 7. It died on us before Intercoastal City, La. Made it in (through locks even) running on one cylinder. Had a friend there who had a Merc, and he pulled the part we needed off his engine- we made 4 miles and THAT crapped.

Found the used 9.9 there, installed it and went on to Fla. On the way back THAT engine crapped, again as we were coming into Intercoastal Was really sick of used engines by then, as you can imagine. Same friend hauled us around til we found the Yamaha. Couldn't really afford it, bought it anyway.

Laura was having a real fit about the problems


This was the first cruise after we relaunched Tehani.

[Jim_ME]

Charlie, That is one of the things about this region is that I've been fortunate to have moorings that were in areas where I can sail off and back onto them. With my old 30-footer it was in a rural area without a lot of boats, but a lot of tidal range and current. There were times when I'd go sailing and never start the motor at all. Also enjoyed doing this in the more crowded anchorages of Portland Harbor, especially in the Typhoon 19. I've had reason this last season to appreciate again how great that little boat handled in all conditions, and always did what you wanted it to do...no surprises.

This works great for day sails, weekending, and cruising around here, especially without a schedule. I can see how needing to get places on the ICW, through drawbridges and locks, is completely different...

[CharlieJ]

Being able to sail off a mooring would be great. Unfortunately I can't recall ever SEEING a mooring anywhere in Texas waters. Nor Louisiana, Miss, or Georgia.  All marina berths.

Here where I keep Tehani there is a 5 mile channel, 60 feet wide, with shallows each side, full of oyster reefs. AND leaving the marina, it's almost always dead to windward into the prevailing SE winds. So we motor out for close to an hour. Of course coming BACK is usually a sleigh ride all the way into the marina.THEN we sail.

There's another marina, on the next bay over, where you can start to sail right outside, or even inside the marina. but it's an hours drive away and more expensive. So you gain nothing.

But when cruising, and when I can, I take a lot of pride in sailing in to anchor, and sailing the anchor out. And Tehani is yar enough to do that, as was Necessity.

Also- sad to say, there are marinas now that don't allow sailing in the marina!! Liability issues I presume, but still. I once was on the Sharpie (Now Traveler), engineless and got told I could not sail the boat inside the breakwater- had to PADDLE her in and out.

[Jim_ME]

Here are a couple photos of the Snapdragon 26 outboard motor, well, and rudder.

Looking at these photos, it occurs to me that one reason the outboard well is located directly over the rudder, is that the hull design does not have the kind of stern counter/overhang in which to locate the outboard. The transom is not far aft of the rudder so there is little space to separate the rudder and well. Perhaps because these British twin keeled boats like this are not designed to a racing rule as some of the US boats, which focuses on the waterline length and there is not much penalty for the hull bow/stern overhangs. These twin-keel boats appear to be designed to maximize waterline length/beam aft/transom size (and interior volume) for a given overall length. If one is paying for winter storage by overall length (as is also often true here in New England), it may offer the most cruising volume for a given cost of slip/storage cost. 

   

[Jim_ME]

Here's a photo of an Alberg-designed Bristol 27 showing how its outboard well is in the counter, aft of the rudder and the waterline.

[Jim_ME]

I did find this photo online of a Snapdragon 26 inboard, showing the bed mounts. This must be a replacement motor...maybe a Yanmar model 1GM diesel?

[Jim_ME]

So...although I do believe it is worth considering an outboard motor with either an new well/reworked rudder or transom-mounted bracket, re-powering with a small inboard diesel is of course an option.

Grime's disappointing experience may be a cautionary tale of an inboard diesel going bad at considerable expense and frustration...
http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4368.0

In response he also worked on a conversion to a transom-mounted outboard motor with remote control. You would have the advantage, in a conversion to an outboard, of having a boat nearly half the displacement of his--and if a transom-mounted outboard bracket, of having a transom that is not as tall, and without the tall FG molded-in cockpit combing.

Obviously, many others have positive experiences with their inboard diesels, and find them reliable and economical. Your boat is already roughly set up for one. Even small new diesel motors are a substantial investment.

As Charlie put it below, about his purchase of a new outboard motor... "Couldn't really afford it, bought it anyway." So in the end it comes down to a personal choice about value and recovering what [may] seem to be a high initial investment with lower long-term operating expenses, perhaps especially if you are going to put a lot of hours/miles on the motor.

I would be concerned that the investment in a new diesel may not add enough value to the SD26 to be recoverable in resale. I guess a couple permutations I might also consider if having a diesel inboard seemed to be the way that I wanted to go, was to compare the cost of a new diesel re-power in the Snapdragon 26 with buying another boat with a good existing diesel (possibly including a Cape Dory 25D), and sell the SD26 to someone who would be content with a transom-mounted bracket/outboard.

Another possibility might be to find a used small diesel/transmission in good condition, and have it checked out by a diesel shop before installing it. I've occasionally seen a small Yanmar diesel motors with transmission for sale on CraigsList for between $500 and $1000. 

[Jim_ME]

Looking back through the SD26 photos...thought this one also showed another value in terms of space that could be storage when it isn't occupied with an inboard motor.

[CharlieJ]

Under the stern of Tehani is very like that Bristol.

[CapnK]

Nice gate valves, there...

???   ;D

[Frank]

Kurt.....do I detect just a "hint" of sarcasm there??      :o

[Jim_ME]

Nice gate valves, there...

Yeah...archive photo...but if one was to use that space as storage, you have to hope that there is a (gasketed) hatch in the cockpit floor above to give easier access to those valves.

Or...since the outboard motor well is right aft of those drains...why not route your cockpit scupper drains directly into that well? ...[above the waterline]...no valves required. :)
(I believe others have done this, including Charlie?)

[CharlieJ]

Close- you remember well  :D

My cockpit drains are  1 7/8 ID and exit JUST forward of the motor well, under the counter. Here's a pic of the inside showing how they route, and one showing the lay up I did when I made them