Can I afford to Cruise?

[Namaste]

Hi all,

I would really like to do some full time cruising at some point in the future.

I realize that the issue of monthly cruising expenses is highly subjective and dependent on the desires and necessities of the crew but I am trying to get a realistic estimate of what to expect.

Keeping my goal planning realistic to our skill level, I would anticipate that we will be keeping things state-side for awhile and then possibly moving on to the Bahamas.

Although I would have to quit a great job to go cruising, we have four really good things going for us:

1. We are somewhat young-ish (in our 30s)
2.  Even without a job, I have guaranteed monthly income
3.  My wife is blissfully employed and works three times a week but it is all online so as long as she can find a reliable internet connection, she's in business.  She also has the option to take up to three months off with little notice which is great if we ever want to explore or remain somewhere more remote.  ;D
4.  Our 24' boat is entirely paid for

I am trying to figure out what, if any, extra money we would need to live well while cruising so that I can plan accordingly.
 
Assuming that insurance (health and boat) were covered, how well could we expect to live on about 3K a month? ???

Thanks, in advance, for any input.

[s/v Faith]

Might I suggest that you rephrase the question?

Can I afford to Cruise?

"Can I afford not to cruise?"

Your 4 points are excellent, and frankly show a wisdom that is beyond the grasp of many.

Life happens, and things change rapidly.  If you choose not to go now, what is it likely to cost?

What is regret worth?  What happens if your circumstances change, and you are forced to wait... or not go?

What will the income you are likely to make be worth to you if;

  - your health suffers,

- your partners health suffers,

- Your relationship becomes strained, or your perspectives no longer line up on cruising?


Or how about asking what the cost of living life in the mean time... without the experiences you will gain and the perspective? 

  Some might argue these points, some might say that you can work now and cruise later (some would justify this saying that your boat is too small, or you don't have some item some magazine told them they needed).....

  My advice is to go....    the money you might be able to make later... the time is gone once you spend it.


May you be at peace with whatever you decide.

[Tim]

Sounds like you have thought this out. My experience has been the opportunity to cruise only comes best at the age you are right now, jobs come and go.

As the years continue, it becomes harder and harder to pull it off, GO NOW.

[Grime]

I agree with Faith. Go now. You can do ok on 3k a month. We are going to do it in a 22' boat and half that just as soon as the doctors release me. I am a cancer survivor.

So you never know what life will deal you tomorrow. Go now and have fun. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Godot]

3k a month?  There are plenty of people out there doing it on 10k a YEAR.  Probably some doing it on a lot less (although I suspect we are getting to a pretty minimalist level at this point).  With a 24 foot boat your onboard expenses should be pretty reasonable, and you probably don't have too many expensive and complicated systems.  After that it comes down to how much you like marinas and the expensive shore life.  I would think lifestyle choices are going to be your biggest expense, and the one thing that is practically impossible for someone else to judge.

Not that I've gone out for more than a few weeks, mind you.  YMMV.

[tomwatt]

Do it. Do it. Do it.

Otherwise, you'll be looking back in 20 years, no closer to cruising than you are now, and kicking yourself for a missed opportunity.

[Captain Smollett]

I'll echo the replies of others and refer you to the Mark Twain quote in my forum signature.

As for the $3000 per month, that is a LOT.  What do you plan to spend this money on?  Cruising is not quite like what we generally think of as "vacationing."  When cruising, you do spend blobs of money in doses, but then you go long periods of time without much money spent at all.

If you are thinking long term, and REALLY want to cruise inexpensively without TOO much sacrifice of comfort and enjoyment, I highly recommend Lin and Larry Pardey's book The Cost Conscious Cruiser: Champagne Cruising on a Beer Budget.

They outline real world (though perhaps slightly dated) numbers on outfitting by giving charts of several real "low cost" cruisers like the Hiscocks vs the "ideal" cruiser per the magazines.  If you read these charts and understand the underlying significance, it becomes clear that the "ideal" that is sold is ideal only in separating you from your money.  The cruisers in the "cheap" columns of that chart have logged several hundreds of thousands of cruising miles and tens of circumnavigations, so the advice is born of experience.

They also discuss other cost saving strategies such as anchoring rather than marinas, which is pretty obvious, but less obvious is to SAIL rather than MOTOR, even when the wind is light.  This may mean working with wind and tide in a way that is anathema to modern American cruisers...specifically in the form of giving up schedules.  Fuel costs money, and may represent one of the biggest costs per month depending upon how you approach your boating.

Since you will mostly choose to stay in port when the weather is bad, paying particular attention to the light air days is worthwhile.  In other words, heavy weather gets the press, but as I've heard from others "in the know," light air makes the sailor.  I like to specifically train my light air sailing, and find it very enjoyable to make miles, even at 1-2 knots, cleanly, quietly and FOR FREE.

There are, of course, places you cannot practically sail...the ICW (Gulf and Atlantic) has big stretches where motoring is virtually required...unless you are VERY patient to wait for the right conditions.   ;)  Threfore, ICW cruising tends to be more expensive (motoring, plus you tend to stop in towns with all those inviting restaurants and other things to do)...so, when possible, consider jumping outside.  The sailing is better and the routes are often shorter.  This is certainly true of the East Coast from the tip of Florida northward.  You can easily cover 2-3x (or even MUCH more) the distance in the same period of time in offshore "jumps" with very little motoring as compared ICW motoring.

Lin and Larry's strategy is not to give up comfort and fun at all...rather, theirs is a strategy of saving money where they can (for example, moving the boat from place to place) and enjoying the money they DO spend in those places that interest them.  To me at least, it's a fascinating philosophy.

[CharlieJ]

3000 a month!!! wow!!

I wish we had that much to cruise on- we do it on around half that, give or take.

Go for it.

[w00dy]

Rachel and I were spending something around 300 a month each over our winter cruise of the Gulf and Keys.
We:
-never stayed at a marina, but always anchored or looked for a free tie-up.
-sailed at every possible opportunity and seriously weighed staying put vs. motoring and burning fuel
-rely entirely on solar power to generate our electricity. No running the motor or generator to create power.
-cook all our meals on board and eat out rarely. We make price lists of staple items and over buy when we find them at a lower than average price.
-we eat a mostly vegan diet, which eliminates many quickly perishable foods and the need to spend $100 a month on store-bought ice. Soy milk and tofu don't spoil very quickly.

Food and fuel were our main expenses. I realize that our budget may be on the spartan side of the bell curve, but even then we still felt we had room to tighten up if necessary. Don't let money get in your way. Go now!

[Captain Smollett]

Grog to all in this thread...so encouraging...I love this site.   :)

[Oldrig]

As the years continue, it becomes harder and harder to pull it off, GO NOW.

Go for it, by all means. And go for it NOW!

Take it from somebody who is already too old and too tied down to move aboard -- do it while you can. But make sure both of you are committed equally.

--Joe

[Namaste]

Thanks for the feedback!

You all have given me quite a bit to think about; I really appreciate all of this great advice and encouragement - I am pumped up.  It's also very comforting to hear that there are people out there having a blast while cruising on a modest budget.

I have heard that there are people cruising on around 10K a year but it just sounds too good to be true; whenever I hear the 10K figure, I always envision people chewing on leather belts for several weeks in order to keep food costs in line.  I just want to make sure that I don't have to cut my cruising plans drastically short due to poor budgeting; I have read some cruising folks mention $9 cheeseburgers  :o as though that is a fairly good (or standard) price and that makes me nervous about less frivolous (and more costly) expenses.  

As a number of you mentioned, I am concerned that if we do not go sometime soon, things are likely to change and we may never be able to go at all.  Time is one of the reasons why I decided to get a small boat in the first place.  I am fairly certain that one of the main reasons why I have been able to get even to this point is because my vision has never extended far beyond my grasp.   I credit people like the Pardeys and sailors/cruisers like the kind here at Sailfar for the wisdom of setting clearly attainable goals.
 
I have a family member who has expressed an interest in cruising and we have spent many hours talking about the subject.  For some reason, he has decided that he 'just can't do it' on anything less than a 36' catamaran.  I suppose I might be able to understand his reasoning better if he had a wife and a couple of children but, at this point, it would just be him.  I really hope to god that he gets that boat someday but I do wonder if his goal is reasonable and even if he does get it, I wonder if it will be worth all of the lost opportunities and adventures that he will have had to sacrifice along the way.   After reading Faith's response, I am starting to wonder if my concern over finances is my own, metaphorical '36' catamaran' for why I 'just can't do it'.  It's a lot to think about and it is making me take a nice long look in the big mirror.

Still, one of my primary concerns is my wife's level of happiness and comfort.  I consider myself exceptionally lucky to have a wife who would even vaguely entertain far flung ideas about cruising for extended periods of time in a 24' sailboat.  However, I know that our long term success will depend, to a great extent, on whether or not my wife is happy and enjoying the experience and this is one of the primary reasons why I am thinking ahead about finances.

My wife is a really good sport and she has a sturdy inner strength about her.  My concern is the compound effects from things that we can't control like weather, wind and sea conditions and on top of all that a situation where neither of us have had a shower in two weeks, we can't afford deodorant and are stuck eating dried apricots for the eleventh day;  that might make for an amusing and entertaining story but my suspicion is that if it got to the point where this was the norm for a prolonged period of time, the story would likely be told many miles from the nearest body of water.   :'( The fact is that I want to go cruising, badly, but I want to be with my wife more so I need to keep her onboard (both literally and figuratively); I would certainly welcome any sage advice on this topic as it is hugely important to me.

Captain Smollett, thanks for the recommended read; I will pick up a copy.  I read a couple of books on the Pardeys' adventures while sailing Seraphin (sp?) a number of years ago, really good stuff.  As for motoring, my boat is pretty heavy for her size and I have a very strong feeling that I will be using the motor a great deal more than I would like to, at least for the foreseeable future.   However, I am going to make a serious effort to cut down or largely eliminate its use, altogether, as soon as possible.  

Charlie and James, that is really good to hear since both of you cruise with a significant other and are actually out there doing it on that kind of a budget; it gives me some much needed confidence.  Wow, I'm feeling really good about this.

In fact, I think it is time to go have a talk with the Wifey... ;D

Thanks all!

[Captain Smollett]

I have heard that there are people cruising on around 10K a year but it just sounds too good to be true; whenever I hear the 10K figure, I always envision people chewing on leather belts for several weeks in order to keep food costs in line.

I don't think so, in general.  Maybe $10k a year is on the lower end of the curve, but not by much.  $1000 per month is a standard that seems to be pretty high "living on the hog," but that does depend greatly on where you are cruising.

What is your food budget now?  *IF* you can manage to sail more than motor and do NOT rely on the engine for things like charging batts or a cold plate fridge (as has been mentioned), food will be your biggest expense and one that you cannot eliminate completely.

To put it into perspective, we are a family of four living aboard, and we CAN eat without too much discomfort at all...and my wife is a doctor so we eat on the 'healthier' end of the spectrum...for about $130 per week, or $6760 per year.  We could easily shave that even smaller without too much effort, and yes, that's buying a LOT of fresh fruits and veggies.

I would think a couple could manage the food costs pretty tightly and still be 'comfortable.'

  I just want to make sure that I don't have to cut my cruising plans drastically short due to poor budgeting; I have read some cruising folks mention $9 cheeseburgers  :o as though that is a fairly good (or standard) price and that makes me nervous about less frivolous (and more costly) expenses. 

And grog to you for thinking about it this way...

But on the $9 burger, I'm assuming you think that is a LOT to spend on a burger.  Yep, it is.  But, think of that $9 burger as a luxurious, once in a very blue moon thing - NOT every night.  Underway or anchored out in the 'boonies,' it doesn't even require self discipline to not eat out.  You are then spending VERY little on your food, and NOTHING on a slip or other shore based traps.

In other words, you can enjoy the frivolity of a $9 burger once in a while because of money you are NOT spending elsewhere.  This is completely different from the shore based life where ongoing expenses are always there (rent, gas for the car, insurance for the car, maybe parking fees, electric bill, water bill, etc).  THAT is where the money to occasionally be frivolous comes from, and you will need to do that once in a while.

Craig ("s/v Faith") has posted on here some of his real-world expenditures from his cruise in the Bahamas.  That's well worth the read.

I have a family member who has expressed an interest in cruising and we have spent many hours talking about the subject.  For some reason, he has decided that he 'just can't do it' on anything less than a 36' catamaran.  I suppose I might be able to understand his reasoning better if he had a wife and a couple of children but, at this point, it would just be him.

Invite him to join here to get the counterpoints?   ;D

I am starting to wonder if my concern over finances is my own, metaphorical '36' catamaran' for why I 'just can't do it'.  It's a lot to think about and it is making me take a nice long look in the big mirror.

Another grog for that later when I can.

Still, one of my primary concerns is my wife's level of happiness and comfort.  I consider myself exceptionally lucky to have a wife who would even vaguely entertain far flung ideas about cruising for extended periods of time in a 24' sailboat.  However, I know that our long term success will depend, to a great extent, on whether or not my wife is happy and enjoying the experience and this is one of the primary reasons why I am thinking ahead about finances.

My wife is a really good sport and she has a sturdy inner strength about her.  My concern is the compound effects from things that we can't control like weather, wind and sea conditions and on top of all that a situation where neither of us have had a shower in two weeks, we can't afford deodorant and are stuck eating dried apricots for the eleventh day;  that might make for an amusing and entertaining story but my suspicion is that if it got to the point where this was the norm for a prolonged period of time, the story would likely be told many miles from the nearest body of water.   :'( The fact is that I want to go cruising, badly, but I want to be with my wife more so I need to keep her onboard (both literally and figuratively); I would certainly welcome any sage advice on this topic as it is hugely important to me.

And yet another for thinking this one through... :)

"Reduction of misery."  Craig's fine advice to me when I was where you are in the process.

Few of us, male or female, wants an excessive degree of discomfort.  The key here is to communicate with her what she wants...and let her help you set up the boat, have input in how things will be done.  Of course, she may not get ALL of the "wants," but compromises can be made.

Also get and read Debra Cantrell's Changing Course.  It's an excellent book regarding women and the decision to go cruising.

As for motoring, my boat is pretty heavy for her size and I have a very strong feeling that I will be using the motor a great deal more than I would like to, at least for the foreseeable future.   However, I am going to make a serious effort to cut down or largely eliminate its use, altogether, as soon as possible.   

Ok, fair enough.  But, consider that motoring = $$ (fuel, maintenance and repairs) and there's another "36 ft catamaran" for you.  Engines tend to break when you'd rather be doing something else.  Using it is not a "sin," but relying on it might be.   ;)

I think all of this is interconnected...cruising is to some degree about independence and freedom.

[CharlieJ]

 :D
I should point out that if I didn't go cruising, Laura would be apt to just go without me
:D

One of the neat things she did was to can meats ( half pint jars) so we could have a good quantity and variety aboard. She uses a pressure cooker as an oven too- bakes bread, biscuits, cakes, potatos, etc in it.

And no reason to forgo a shower- we use a pump up shower (from Duckworks-http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/index.htm)

Comes complete and ready for use, AS a shower. Lives in the cockpit. We can get two really nice showers, or four very short ones from it- HOT water too.

And forget about the "too old" stuff- Hey- I'm 70 ;D

[Captain Smollett]

Craig ("s/v Faith") has posted on here some of his real-world expenditures from his cruise in the Bahamas.  That's well worth the read.

Found it here.

Summary:

First three months, in the States, moving the boat from NC to FL:  Average $1358 per month.

Three and a half months in the Bahamas:  Average $1021 per month.

Last month and a third, back the States:  $545 per month (no marinas)

Or, looking near the end of the post, he has $7648 for 8 months....about $950 per month for ALL expenses (including vet bills and the like, not just boat related stuff).

Finally,

We still cruised for about $35 a day (or $3 a mile).  We did what we wanted, ate where we wanted, stayed were we wanted.  I do not like high end marinas.. I don?t feel comfortable wasting money for someone?s idea of POSH.   We did eat several pricey meals just because we felt like it.  I am confident that we could do it for far less.

[Oldrig]

Still, one of my primary concerns is my wife's level of happiness and comfort.  I consider myself exceptionally lucky to have a wife who would even vaguely entertain far flung ideas about cruising for extended periods of time in a 24' sailboat.  However, I know that our long term success will depend, to a great extent, on whether or not my wife is happy and enjoying the experience and this is one of the primary reasons why I am thinking ahead about finances.

This is a very valid concern, and you're showing your own depth of character by raising it.

My advice, posted on earlier threads as well, is to start out with your wife on daysails, follow them up with short overnight cruises and finally try a week or more. Be sure that she's comfortable onboard, that she is willing to learn sailing and that she really shares your passion.

If not, reconsider your plan. You can still cruise, but you might feel that you have to limit it somewhat.

I can't tell you how many marriages have fallen apart over sailing and cruising. My own marriage has remained intact, but only because we are each willing to let the other indulge his or her interest. I don't care for gardening and my wife doesn't like long trips on the boat (especially after a very unpleasant seasickness episode).

When I take a multi-day cruise, she will meet me by car at the other end, and she actually enjoys sleeping on board. But I know that if I were to propose dropping everything and moving aboard I would have to do so alone.

Good luck, and make sure your wife buys into your plans.

--Joe

[Frank]

Interesting topic. I'm chiming in late but can tell ya that $3000mth is much more than most spend. The key to any of this is being totally honest with yourselves.
#If 'cold' is a must for her...have an engal and decent solar panel
# the shower Charlie mentions is premo...I even use it at the cottage..very water-use friendly
#you/she will probably want the 'odd' night at a mooring if its really windy.  Figure about $10 per night..worth it if its really blowing for a few nights to keep up moral (other opinions vary, BUT if she's new to this...why scare her)
# figure a few dinners out to get off the boat and a few happy hour sundowners
#you'd be surprised how cruisers make their own fun. Bonfires, cookouts and dinners/drinks aboard seem often while anchored out.
#cruisers love to share where they got a bargain...be it groceries or the best/cheapest place to eat/drink out.  It's a community once you're out there..honest!
# your biggest drain will be the time spent in eateries or bars and marinas. Keep those 3 to minimal  (but not so minimal to feel deprived) and you'll be totally surprised how cheap it is. Bahamas is expensive, but rum is $10 a bottle and entertainment on beachs with other cruisers is free.
#I honestly spend less per mth here than home...

I agree..."GO NOW"  ;D  

But make sure to do what is needed to keep everyone aboard happy.

 

[Mario G]

Go Go Go we have been doing it on half of what you are considering and doing well. Our only constant bills have been to Tow Boat (don't leave the docks without it) and about $5 a month for LP gas,  then food and if it wasn't the fact I eat like a horse we could cut our cost in half.

We have great places to anchore where we can walk to grocery stores and places like Home Depot when the 1st mate finds projects for me to do.

We started out with an air card on the computer that let us get on line anywhere and should work out great for your 1st mate to do her job.

Hope to see you out here.

[hearsejr]

  Come to think about..I've been tied to the dock, in a high priced area, and I'm paying  $230/mo for the slip..another $50-$75 in food. that means I'm spending around $305 a month.  when I head back to the boat yard my costs will go down to $75/mo and $10/mo for shore power and water, and I think the food will be the same, around $75/mo...(cheaper sometimes because I don't eat out and I was going with can and dry foods because of no refrigerator) this month I have a mini fridge, and a better cooking grill.
I'm thinking my cost for the next few months will be $175-$250. I'm adding a few extra for the new food stuff and the cost of gas. I will do a few over night sails maybe a couple days on the hook exploring the Northern part of the bay. it all depends on the weather as to how long I will stay away from the dock this spring.

  PS just added up the true for being dock in the middle of Hampton..$334 (including gas, dockage, food, and a couple of city bus tickets to go to walmart)

[skylark]

Is that 50 to 75 per month for food?  What kind of foods do you eat on that budget?