Can I afford to Cruise?

[tomwatt]

Captain Smollett, wonderful, encouraging and wise words...
thank you so much for confirming that the latest "automatic gps-actuated tack cringle bracket (available in stainless or silicon-bronze)" is not always adding function to a system (the sailfar vessel) that works best in simple mode.

[phil416]

Captain Smollet; You shure hit the nail on the head.  Complexity creates complexity, creates expense, creates failure,creates expense, etc. etc. ad infinitum.  Another point, sail your ship in a conservative manner and save your rigging.  Sailing with a rally cuts you off from local contact, and thus diminishes the quality and educational aspect of your voyage.  A large expensive boat intimadates locals who will be less likely to approach and welcome you.  Workmen, look at you as a cash cow.
      As for technolgy, its not a matter of new vs old, but an appropriate mixture of your options.  One of my best purchases was a NASA Instruments AIS receiver, which combined with a Garmin gps 72 sounded an alarm whenever a ship came within 16 miles.   The Windpilot held course, and proved as reliable as a rock.  To go without at least a plastic sextant is insane.  If you sail the North Atlantic,you can keep the compasss on E or W and keep track of the North star and you will find a continent eventually, carry food and water.   Sail Far and enjoy Phil

[maxiSwede]

There are different ways of skinning a cat -or how that adage goes.
;D ;D

Hilarious AND tragic to hear about how lost some people are even before taking to the Sea.  Could that make a new adage maybe?  'lost before Sea'

No matter how much 'stuff' and bells and whistles one may want to have, or believe 'necessary' at least some basic knowledge and skill in repairs AND a sufficient supply of spares seem, to me at least, as a basic game plan.

But I always suspected that those 'rallies' are for people with more money than experience and knowledge to feel 'safe'. There will always (?) be another 'captain' around to offer extra crew and pasta.... :o ::)

[Oldrig]

Smollett:

Another amazing analysis of how not to practice SailFar, or any other type of sailing.

However, I should mention that my cruise to Bermuda last year was as part of a much more modest "rally."

I don't know how much my skipper paid to participate in the Bermuda Rally, but it helped us focus on our goal, provided us with a twice-daily sat-phone check-in, gave us some routing and weather info, and provided us with a place to tie up when we reached St. Georges.

We were sailing an older boat, with some experienced and some inexperienced people on board (like me), and I'd say that this particular rally was a nice way for relative bluewater novices to make this offshore trip.

Our boat, a Cape Dory 33, was the smallest and, I think, the oldest boat in the fleet. And the only "fancy" stuff we were required to carry, other than basic safety gear, was the rented satellite phone (a piece of junk) and a transponder that was supposed to let all our shoreside fans "track" our progress.

We never actually sailed with any of the other participants, and I think we only caught a glimpse of another rally boat on the horizon once or twice. And there certainly weren't any spare skippers or crews (or pasta) if we needed it.

But it gave the venture a bit of structure. I'm sure that informal "buddy boating," and use of a ham radio net would have accomplished much the same things.

As for rallies costing $19,000 -- they might provide a good business model for the organizers, but that's no way to go sailing.

--Joe

[Captain Smollett]

The topic of rally cruising or even less formal buddy boating may seem off topic to affording to cruise, but I do think it's relevant.

This biggest problem I personally have with this kind of travel, and this is only MY personal view, is the abdication of responsibility it encourages.  I've seen it many times in various venues (hiking in largish groups, RV-ing, and boating)...either a groupthink takes over or one individual manages to impose his will.

Deciding when to leave port is a very important decision for each skipper to make...I absolutely abhor even the notion of "going" just because someone else is or not because they are not.  Two boats arrived here 'together' last summer, and one of the skippers was more 'nervous' about the wx than the other (oddly enough, he was on the larger of the two boats), and the second skipper told me it drove him nuts sometimes to sit in port with "them" on perfectly good travel days.

It's easy to say, "oh, that's not me," but that peer pressure can be tremendous...especially as the group size grows.

So, how does this relate to cost?  Look at the damage list in those articles. Look at the Noonsite web page for rallies - some of those rallies published days and TIMES of departure from port.  I doubt if there is a full gale going on that they would leave, but, hey, momentum like that is very hard to redirect.  So, I just wonder, how much of that damage to boats...the wear and tear kind...was due to what I might call "poor decision making."

Phil's advice above about a conservative approach makes a certain degree of sense, yet how often on these rallies do people adapt a "race" mentality?  At best, this unduly stresses gear and wears it out.  At worst, we get boats pressing on in bad conditions with disasters like Queen's Birthday, the Fastnets and similar.  

None of this HAS to occur...a good strong skipper CAN resist ALL of these temptations.  But sadly, quite a few do succumb and "go" because the other boats are going, or press on because they perceive they are at the back of the pack.  Last year, I heard a fellow trying to convince a lady (and her husband) to join their 8 boat group to the Islands, and her biggest concern was "we might slow you down."  With that on her mind before she even leaves, what does it bring to the decision making process at sea?

Her boat, her choices and fair enough.  She also mentioned that they were not really into the "social" scene of hangin out in bars every night.  This kind of thing bites a family member who routinely RV's with several other couples...and routinely complains about how they (my family) never get to do what THEY want.  One guy (of the group of three couples) ALWAYS picks the restaurants, ALWAYS picks a given day's sight-seeing itinerary and ALWAYS picks the "we'll stay here until day x, then move on to location y."

For someone wanting to 'cruise' on a tighter budget, keeping up with this kind of person can break the bank...or at the least, cause stress that it will do so.

I'm glad you had a good experience.  Obviously, a lot of people enjoy traveling like that and no doubt not all rallies are created equally.  It's just not for ME, and I think anyone entering into that kind of travel needs to examine very careful the financial and emotional costs of going.

And none of THIS was mentioned by Frankel in his article about "rally or not."  The only 'con' he mentioned was "rugged individualism and self sufficiency."  I don't think his assessment was completely fair, and his bias in favor of the rally was clearly evident.

I suspect Magnus's assessment was right on...for the most part, rallies are a way for people with more money than seamanship to "buy" memories at sea.  If that sounds harsh, sorry.  It's my take; I think when you try to buy with money what you are not willing to buy with "spirit," you never gain the full reward.

On Edit:  Upon re-reading that last paragraph, it DOES sound harsh.  Joe, that absolutely was NOT directed at you and your experience with the rally to Bermuda.  

With that comment, I was thinking more of the "buy a 2 million dollar Swan just for the rally, do the rally, and sell it right after at a pretty big loss" type, than anyone joining a boat as crew, or even already owning a boat and joining a rally.

Certainly folks have different motivations for joining rallies, and I was addressing one specific set therein...not the WHOLE 'rally' group.

Apologies if I 'mispoke' ...

[Oldrig]

 Upon re-reading that last paragraph, it DOES sound harsh.  Joe, that absolutely was NOT directed at you and your experience with the rally to Bermuda.  

With that comment, I was thinking more of the "buy a 2 million dollar Swan just for the rally, do the rally, and sell it right after at a pretty big loss" type, than anyone joining a boat as crew, or even already owning a boat and joining a rally.

Certainly folks have different motivations for joining rallies, and I was addressing one specific set therein...not the WHOLE 'rally' group.

Apologies if I 'mispoke' ...

You didn't offend me at all. And I agree with a lot of what you say. I didn't mean to hijack the the thread, but merely to point out that the rally was a useful experience. The builders of production boats, the manufacturers of electronic gadgets and the publishers of "mainstream" magazines are all pushing boats of increasing expense and complexity, as well as selling them to people without the experience to sail them.

Once again: A great thread, and no offense taken.

--Joe

[CharlieJ]

Laura and I simply don't "buddy boat" We may cruise in company with another boat
For awhile but it is made clear from the beginning that it's a short term thing.

Last thing we want is to feel responsible for someone else, or have them feel that about us.

I've tried it a few times and always wound up dis-satisfied.

Post edited to get rid of the word "Donnie" that this iPhone decided to change "don't" into!!!

[jotruk]

on numerous occasioning when I was driving truck I hooked up with anther trucker and ended up with a driver depending on me to make sure that they made there loads on time I would;d not like to have this same thing happen when I was cruising

[Auspicious]

I have sailed with other boats a number of times. Sometimes it is a positive and collaborative experience that lasts as long as it lasts. Others it's a mama duck and ducklings thing and I get tired fairly quickly.

A short story:

I was on delivery from Charleston SC to Beaufort NC and met a single-hander trying to get home to Baltimore. We sailed in company offshore and he could get some sleep knowing we were watching and would yell to him over the VHF next to his head. We did have to slow down a bit but it only cost us a couple of hours getting to Beaufort and it saved him a couple of days getting home over heading up the ICW. Good experience all around - short duration, everyone capable, and helping a guy out.

[Captain Smollett]

everyone capable

A key piece of the puzzle.

[phil416]

Phil's advice above about a conservative approach makes a certain degree of sense, yet how often on these rallies do people adapt a "race" mentality?  At best, this unduly stresses gear and wears it out.  At worst, we get boats pressing on in bad conditions with disasters like Queen's Birthday, the Fastnets and similar.  


        The conservative approach includes your mental and physical health as well as saving your equiptment        A survey of the ARC Rally fleet at Angra do Heroismo revealed a preponderance of big cheaply builtboats Hunters, Bavaria etc         Exactly the type of vessels one does not want to punish. Phil

[maxiSwede]

I was on delivery from Charleston SC to Beaufort NC and met a single-hander trying to get home to Baltimore. We sailed in company offshore and he could get some sleep knowing we were watching and would yell to him over the VHF next to his head. We did have to slow down a bit but it only cost us a couple of hours getting to Beaufort and it saved him a couple of days getting home over heading up the ICW. Good experience all around - short duration, everyone capable, and helping a guy out.

That's a very nice way of caring for others. Most appreciated I am sure

[Tim]

I sail regularly with a group of small boat (I am the largest with 19'LOA)sailors up in the PNW. Moat all have always carried enough experience and all realize that though we sail together we are each individually responsible for ourselves. Sometimes we split for separate anchorages, but we always communicate what we are doing so everyone knows.

Though to be honest I prefer cruising alone, there is a comfort in numbers when exploring new areas.

[jotruk]

My previous post came off as Rather harsh. What I meant to relay was that that other truckers would blame you if they were late and I don't want to get in that situation again. I am looking farward to meeting sailing with other boats.
now we sail with a group on the lake here and need less to say we can't get very far at on time.

[Namaste]

Hi All!


It has been a while but I thought I would check back in.  I have been cruising for the past 4 weeks and I'm having a blast!

If this month is any indication, the cost of cruising is about 1K a month, total (no smoking, very modest drinking).  We go out to eat about once a week.  We have had to repair few items and nothing has broken (I'm keeping my fingers crossed).  I think that it could easily be done for as little as $800.00.  However, we generally eat a modest breakfast and do not eat lunch.  Dinner is whatever we want... usually something off the grill.

I would like to make a longer post about where we have gone and what we have done but I am due at the beach to meet my wife soon.  We have met some great folks down here.

Although it is very warm down here in southern Florida in the summer time, it is not, at all, unbearable (at least not in my opinion).  The evenings are amazing... temps in the low 70s.  It is so pleasant at night that I have only spent ONE night sleeping below deck the entire trip (because the rain was just too much). 



Great views, beautiful water and beaches, sunsets like an exploding tropical flower painted by Van Gough; Dolphins and Sea Turtles.  I have seen 2 Manatees! 

I will try to post a longer thread when I get a chance and will upload some pictures and video.

Fair Winds!

[Lost Lake]

That is wonderful to hear!!!! You're doing it!!!! Wish I was in your shoes right now, but I have a few more years to go.... Fair winds!!!!

[ronc98]

It has been a while, I wonder if there are any updates on this cruising?  How did it go long term?