Can I afford to Cruise?

[excavman]

$50-$75 a month is not out of line. I like those instant rice or pasta side dishes that come in bags, a dollar or less and I can get two meals out of one. Just add boiling water and 'cup-of-noodles' is lunch for 28 cents. I have even learned to like Spam.

Larry

[Mario G]

Is that 50 to 75 per month for food?  What kind of foods do you eat on that budget?

I wonder the same, Our food bill for 2 per week has to be near $100 a week.

[hearsejr]

 I don't buy a lot of snack stuff. I buy stuff like dry cereal for snacking. I don't get many UN canned meats, and veggies, because I don't have any refrigeration.
I have getting stuff like those square bags of noddles, and buy a big bag of rice lots of canned food that last 2 months...(4 cans of spaghetti's and ravioli(sic) only cost $3.75 at dollar general here) I get spam a Lot..well the no name brand. lots of dry foods like noodles, pancake mix, beenie weenies, pork n beans, I buy the big bag of beans, potatoes. the potatoes costed $4, yesterday, but I have seen them cheaper in the past.
the rice comes in a big bag like 6lbs or so. I just put it in a Tupperware container.  the can stuff I have been getting was running about $.65/can, for veggies, and a little more for meats...maybe like $.85 for chicken...$.85 for cream of mushroom soup, canned ham $1,  corn beef is higher, but I get it every so often any way..lol. you can get better deals on the cream of mushroom soups. I buy a lot of stuff from the sales sections...most of it is not damaged, just getting rid of old stock.
I was getting gatoraid for $1/bottle...it was the big bottle too...from food lion.
if you have a another friend yall can hit somewhere that sells the 20lb bag of rice for really cheap.  I think sam's club sells it like that.
I think the noodles I got were called Roman noodles, and come with a little packet of flavored powder. I use the noodle with cream of mushroom soup, add a can of chicken, and you get a meal.
I also catch fish on week ends, BBQ them.

  disclaimer...I am single and eat like twice a day, and I don't cook huge 3 coarse meals..lol. I'll cook beenie weenies, and add BBQ sauce and onions and sugar t it, and some bread, at that's a meal for me. lol.

[Namaste]

Hi all!

Thanks for all of the responses!

I have not figured out how to cut and paste quotes so forgive me for simply responding to each poster by name.

Charlie, thank you very much for the tip about the solar shower.  Having done a good deal of camping over the years, I love the solar shower bags and the shower that you recommended looks like a major, major improvement.  I had read a previous thread where someone (not sure if it was you) had mentioned that it's also useful for cleaning off ground tackle whenever weighing anchor.  One fix for two problems; I love it!  However, I am curious how well the shower's pump holds out and if the pump provides enough pressure to lift all of the water out of the canister.  Have you ever had any problems with the shower?  Have you noticed any flaws in the design?  I have spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to set up a good shower system.  My wife is not a regular at the local beauty salon but she does love her shower time and I really needed a good solution for this problem.  I am definitely going with this.  Thank you!

Capt. Smollett, you've given me so much useful information, such thorough explanations and such sound advice that I have found myself going back and rereading your posts ten or more times; thank you!  You have somehow even managed to make me feel at peace over the prospect of forking out $9 for a cheeseburger.

I would like to read more about Craig's 'reduction of misery' principle that you have mentioned.  I have looked around in the forum but have not been able to find much.  Are there any threads dedicated to discussion on the topic?  Are there any other threads in which the topic is discussed at length?  The link that you provided to the thread on Faith was fantastic.  Thanks, again.

I have already ordered the Pardey book that you recommended and I will order the second book asap; thanks for that, as well.

I really like your advice about avoiding motor dependency.  I think you called the engine exactly what it is when you said that it is just another metaphorical, '36' catamaran'.  I certainly do not want to be at the mercy of the engine as my only means for topping off the batteries.  After looking at the options, I plan to go with solar panels.  

Generators are last on my list as this would take up valuable storage space (along with extra fuel) on a sailboat that is already on the smaller side.  In addition, the generator runs on fuel so I am still looking at additional fuel costs as well as inevitable mechanical problems.  On top of all of that, the noise makes generators a very unappealing choice.  So adding some solar panels and additional batteries is, currently, one of the items on my priority list.  

I have been considered buying a couple of 50W rigid polycrystalline Kyocera solar panels.  If anyone has used these panels, I would love to hear some feedback, especially concerning quality, longevity, effectiveness as well as any problems or flawed features.  I have read that MPPT charge controllers are a good choice.   I am still not sure if I actually need an inverter and I'm tempted to forego the expense.

Frank, I am hoping to avoid a fridge and just see how far we can go on ice.  I am pretty optimistic that we can do alright with ice but we'll have to see how it goes.  I might be making a mistake on this one, we'll just have to wait and see.
The advice about taking the wife for a night out (or even off) of the boat is a very good idea.  Having a chance to go out for diner or drinks will be a good way to deal with the cramped (or as I like to call it, 'cozy') conditions on the boat.  My overall plan is to start slow with lots of marina time and short day sails.  Once she feels more confident, we will do some harbor hoping, then on to a mooring ball and after that maybe go for a night out.  I haven't really thought of a strict timing on how to do this.  Intuition tells me to go slow and let her comfort level dictate the pace.  I have even toyed with the idea of renting a couple lasers and just playing around and showing her all the points of sail as a starting point.  If any of you all have any good ideas or suggestions about how to do this, please let me know.  I would sure welcome some guidance.

All of the things that I have heard about the cruising community have been extremely positive.  I have a great deal that I still need to learn and it would be great to learn firsthand from people who already know what they are doing.  I plan to volunteer to help with any repair work that anyone is doing on their boat so I can learn as much as possible.  I figure at first, I might just be the guy who hands out the tools but sooner or later, if I learn enough, I might actually know something that someone else doesn't and I can payback the community by actually being useful. :)

Mario, thanks for the budget information and the tip on the air card for internet access; I will check it out.  My thinking is that if the wife can keep her job (with the exception of a few sabbaticals), we might be able to do this for an extended period of time.

I am glad that you brought up anchoring because I am curious how this works.  In Florida, it seems that there is a great deal of liberty with respect to anchoring.  In fact, I have found very little about anchoring limitations (aside from obvious things like anchoring in a shipping lane etc.).  Are you basically free to anchor most anywhere in Florida waters (aside from the aforementioned shipping lanes and restricted areas)?  

Hearsejr, your food budget is amazingly low.  I would like to think that my eating habits are fairly modest.  Like you, I only eat twice a day (lunch and dinner).  Still, my individual food budget has to be somewhere around $50-70 a week.  I think I will keep a strict record over the next few days to get a clearer idea of how much I am spending on food.

Luckily, my wife and I are not big drinkers so I am hoping that we can save some money and keep Captain Morgan from plundering the cruising kitty.  Neither of us smoke so that helps, too.

It is wonderful to hear everyone saying 'GO NOW'.  Whenever I talk about the subject to other people (family, friends, coworkers) they always look at me like I am crazy (especially when I get to the part about the boat being 24' in length).  It looks like money is not a problem.  The only other necessities are essential gear and required skills; perhaps I should start another thread for this topic.

Thanks, again, to all who have responded here and to all of the outstanding information and advice; I really appreciate it.

[CharlieJ]

"Charlie, thank you very much for the tip about the solar shower.  Having done a good deal of camping over the years, I love the solar shower bags and the shower that you recommended looks like a major, major improvement.  I had read a previous thread where someone (not sure if it was you) had mentioned that it's also useful for cleaning off ground tackle whenever weighing anchor.  One fix for two problems; I love it!  However, I am curious how well the shower's pump holds out and if the pump provides enough pressure to lift all of the water out of the canister.  Have you ever had any problems with the shower?  Have you noticed any flaws in the design?  I have spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to set up a good shower system.  My wife is not a regular at the local beauty salon but she does love her shower time and I really needed a good solution for this problem.  I am definitely going with this.  Thank you!"

No problem. Happy to help.

We have a solar shower (bag style) aboard also, but haven't used it since getting the pump-up one. The only problem we've had was it needed a new O-ring around the top. Other than that it works fine.. We use it for bathes, and for rinsing dishes. It lives in the starboard rear corner of the cockpit, right beside the tiller mounting. Sits there all the time, ready for use.

One thing you'll find though. The solar shower will get the water hotter but we've never had that be a problem. And on a chilly day you can just heat up a tea-kettle of water and pour it in.

Now this is set up as a shower. the head puts out a shower style spray, so it would not work spraying anchor line off. I just use a canvas bucket that Laura made. Plans from one of the Pardey's books. Can't tell you which one because they are all on the boat.

Here's what it looks like though-

[Captain Smollett]

Thanks for the kind words. 

I would like to read more about Craig's 'reduction of misery' principle that you have mentioned.  I have looked around in the forum but have not been able to find much.  Are there any threads dedicated to discussion on the topic?  Are there any other threads in which the topic is discussed at length?  The link that you provided to the thread on Faith was fantastic.  Thanks, again.

Craig's principle does not really have its own thread, but here's the gist (Craig, if I may):

Most of us on this site diverge from the 'popular' notions of what it takes to cruise.  "Leave the comforts at the shore" could be a mantra.  We espouse KISS cruising and a LOT of stuff on this site seems devoted to doing "without."

Well, that's only part of the story.  It's too easy to get into a mindset that we give up "too much," and thus turn what SHOULD be an enjoyable lifestyle into a self-imposed misery.  Craig's idea is the counter to that ... don't spring TOO far into the KISS that you eliminate ALL enjoyment.

In short, we should all find those areas where we might feel that oversimplification of our boats leads to perceived "misery."  Personally, I see this as different from mere "comfort," but some may equate the two.  Hence, we must all compromise to keep our own boats in the 'sweet spot.'

TOO many amenities and too much "comfort" built into the boat can easily turn into spending all one's time fixing stuff.  Too little comfort and we are miserable, so what's the point of even doing it?

For each of us, there is that magic degree in this trade-off that makes it work.  The 'conventional wisdom' wants to tell us what is necessary to be comfortable; here on SailFar, I think, we bang against that conventional wisdom but provide allowance for each to make his or her own compromises.

Example: I LOVE the idea of sailing engineless.  My wife does not.  We have an engine on our boat. I don't have to use it in those circumstances that I think we don't need it.

Finally, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  As an example, if you or your wife feels like you cannot cruise without a shower on board, this does NOT mean you HAVE to have running hot and cold water and a full enclosed shower compartment.  There are ways to solve the showering problem to get what you (or she) needs and still keep the boat in the KISS category.  Even if not, even if you go the way of "systems," it's your boat, your choices.

All we "ask" is that each skipper choose this for him/herself...choose what compromises to KISS vs comfort to make...and not fall into the trap of following the advertisers who say it's a "must have." 

Frank, I am hoping to avoid a fridge and just see how far we can go on ice.  I am pretty optimistic that we can do alright with ice but we'll have to see how it goes.  I might be making a mistake on this one, we'll just have to wait and see.

You may want to look into beefing up the insulation of your ice box/cooler, then.  We, too, use only ice (no fridge and no plan to add one).  Block ice lasts MUCH longer than cube or crushed ice, especially if you can get it frozen really cold (ie, not JUST cold enough to freeze).

Three six quart blocks of ice lasts us a couple of weeks.  Contrast with cubes, which only goes a day or two.

The advice about taking the wife for a night out (or even off) of the boat is a very good idea.  Having a chance to go out for diner or drinks will be a good way to deal with the cramped (or as I like to call it, 'cozy') conditions on the boat.

Yes, "get off the boat" is an important mantra...whether that's in town or exploring on the dinghy, walking along a beach or shoreline, etc.  This is a blessing, though.

I think one of the problems people have with boats that "requires" them to have ALL the bells and whistles (a galley "just like" the kitchen at home, huge "closets" for clothes, large "living rooms" etc)...and thus a 45+ footer for a couple...is because they are trying to do all their living ON the boat.  There will be times when you have to stay on the boat, but usually then, you are working...too busy (or too tired) to worry about how big it is and how much space you have.

In port, though...get off the boat.  A lot.   ;D   When people ask us how four of us can live on a 30 foot boat, we like to answer, "we SLEEP on the boat...we LIVE in the whole town, the whole county."  When "out," we do this, too.  You get the idea.

My overall plan is to start slow with lots of marina time and short day sails.  Once she feels more confident, we will do some harbor hoping, then on to a mooring ball and after that maybe go for a night out.

These early times out might set the stage for your whole style.  Getting her used to "marina time" then later making the switch to anchoring out may create more problems than it solves.  Others may disagree, and I can see both sides, but I would advocate anchoring out early in the process and letting that be "the norm" with marina stays the exception.

But you know you and your wife and what's best for you.  But anchoring out is NOT bad or uncomfortable and can be VERY beautiful, provided a few 'givens.'  Watch the weather, pick good sheltered anchorages, maybe avoid being too near too many other boats (the party boats that can ruin an anchorage), proper ground tackle and get REALLY good at anchoring.

That said,

Intuition tells me to go slow and let her comfort level dictate the pace.  

is right on.  The first night we spent aboard a boat together was indeed tied to a dock (a courtesy dock at a launch ramp, so not a marina per se), and the second was anchored out but in a cove within a stone's throw of that same ramp.  You can ease into it and let her set the pace, but you may be surprised at how quick that pace is.

The caveat?  Make the boat her 'zone.' too.  Avoid the traps of YOU knowing where everything is, but she does not, YOU knowing all the procedures, but she does not, YOU having YOUR WAY of doing things, and she is "just there."

Thinking about how you worded that...her 'comfort level.'  If you spend a few nights in the boat at a dock and make the boat itself her comfort level, her "home," where the boat is tied, moored or anchored becomes less an issue.

I have even toyed with the idea of renting a couple lasers and just playing around and showing her all the points of sail as a starting point.  If any of you all have any good ideas or suggestions about how to do this, please let me know.  I would sure welcome some guidance.

Don't dismiss getting her lessons.  This is a GREAT way to let her build confidence in the operation of the boat.  If she's into that sort of thing, there are places that will do "all women" lessons and such.

I am glad that you brought up anchoring because I am curious how this works.  In Florida, it seems that there is a great deal of liberty with respect to anchoring.  In fact, I have found very little about anchoring limitations (aside from obvious things like anchoring in a shipping lane etc.).  Are you basically free to anchor most anywhere in Florida waters (aside from the aforementioned shipping lanes and restricted areas)?  

HAHA, it's funny that you bring up Florida.  We are on the tail end of witnessing some bigtime court issues on anchoring in Florida.  Some towns/counties decided that they wanted to limit anchoring, and some have ordinances like 24 hour limit, 72 hour limit, etc.  It's been going on for years, but I think it has sort of equilibrated for now.

You are free to anchor anyway in 'navigable waters' outside marked channels (shipping or otherwise  :) ).  That does not mean you'd want to, though.  The anchorages you pick will have certain criteria - shelter from wind and waves (and power boat wakes if possible, though that may be a pipe dream), shallow-but-not-too-shallow water, swinging room, etc.  Other boats will be looking for the same thing, so basically, there are certain spots that are "good anchorages."

These will be listed in the cruising guides for a given area....such a guide is generally worth the money.  They tell good anchorages, amenities in the towns (which have repair facilities, which have good restaurants, etc) and some list marina fees and the like.  Short of having a good cruising guide, you quickly learn how to spot good anchorages on the chart...

[hearsejr]

 man I wish I had saved my receipt.. lol
when you only get $749 /mo, you get pretty good at finding the best deals on food. lol lucky for me I really like the stuff I get. lol. I do go for the night out to eat everyonce in a while. I love to get out of the boat and check out the towns.
I wish I had saved the receipt from my last trip at stocking up. on the 3rd of the month, I'll go again, and I'll get a list and prices for ya if you like. I might walk through the store and get you some prices. I mostly get store brands but double check the price on the shelf.
Are you near any boat yards? sometimes a ride to a local yard and meet some folks and learn a lot in an afternoon. plus you'll make some friends ( maybe too many if you offer free labor!!!)
as for the generator, I have one, but I only use it like a couple of times a year. last time I ran it was on the dock during a black out so the lady a few slips down could finish dinner and charge her cell phone. I can run the engine and charge my batteries, but I just got a free  solar panel from a guy who was cleaning out his shop. it's amazing at you can get free. people just get rid of stuff they don't want, that is like a treasure trove.
oh yeah..stock up on stuff like orjel and jock itch stuff,  aspirin, mess you never think you'll ever need till one day you need it in the middle of no where. you can get it at a all things a dollar store (AKA the $.99 store)

[hearsejr]

 about the refridgerator..one day this summer, I am getting one of these!
http://www.compactappliance.com/FP430-Compact-EdgeStar-Portable-Refrigerator-Freezer/FP430,default,pd.html?cgid=Appliances-Freezers-Portable_Fridge_Freezer

[s/v Faith]

Wow John, you did it much more justice then I think I did.  :)

Short version: Much attention is paid to comfort... often adds up to lots of gear.
Focusing on eliminating things that cause misery can be a better investment...
Being cold, wet, and tries make one miserable... and less likely to enjoy cruising
long term.

Or as John said;

Thanks for the kind words. 

I would like to read more about Craig's 'reduction of misery' principle that you have mentioned.  I have looked around in the forum but have not been able to find much.  Are there any threads dedicated to discussion on the topic?  Are there any other threads in which the topic is discussed at length?  The link that you provided to the thread on Faith was fantastic.  Thanks, again.

Craig's principle does not really have its own thread, but here's the gist (Craig, if I may):

Most of us on this site diverge from the 'popular' notions of what it takes to cruise.  "Leave the comforts at the shore" could be a mantra.  We espouse KISS cruising and a LOT of stuff on this site seems devoted to doing "without."

Well, that's only part of the story.  It's too easy to get into a mindset that we give up "too much," and thus turn what SHOULD be an enjoyable lifestyle into a self-imposed misery.  Craig's idea is the counter to that ... don't spring TOO far into the KISS that you eliminate ALL enjoyment.

In short, we should all find those areas where we might feel that oversimplification of our boats leads to perceived "misery."  Personally, I see this as different from mere "comfort," but some may equate the two.  Hence, we must all compromise to keep our own boats in the 'sweet spot.'

TOO many amenities and too much "comfort" built into the boat can easily turn into spending all one's time fixing stuff.  Too little comfort and we are miserable, so what's the point of even doing it?

For each of us, there is that magic degree in this trade-off that makes it work.  The 'conventional wisdom' wants to tell us what is necessary to be comfortable; here on SailFar, I think, we bang against that conventional wisdom but provide allowance for each to make his or her own compromises.

Example: I LOVE the idea of sailing engineless.  My wife does not.  We have an engine on our boat. I don't have to use it in those circumstances that I think we don't need it.

Finally, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  As an example, if you or your wife feels like you cannot cruise without a shower on board, this does NOT mean you HAVE to have running hot and cold water and a full enclosed shower compartment.  There are ways to solve the showering problem to get what you (or she) needs and still keep the boat in the KISS category.  Even if not, even if you go the way of "systems," it's your boat, your choices.

All we "ask" is that each skipper choose this for him/herself...choose what compromises to KISS vs comfort to make...and not fall into the trap of following the advertisers who say it's a "must have." 

Frank, I am hoping to avoid a fridge and just see how far we can go on ice.  I am pretty optimistic that we can do alright with ice but we'll have to see how it goes.  I might be making a mistake on this one, we'll just have to wait and see.

You may want to look into beefing up the insulation of your ice box/cooler, then.  We, too, use only ice (no fridge and no plan to add one).  Block ice lasts MUCH longer than cube or crushed ice, especially if you can get it frozen really cold (ie, not JUST cold enough to freeze).

Three six quart blocks of ice lasts us a couple of weeks.  Contrast with cubes, which only goes a day or two.

The advice about taking the wife for a night out (or even off) of the boat is a very good idea.  Having a chance to go out for diner or drinks will be a good way to deal with the cramped (or as I like to call it, 'cozy') conditions on the boat.

Yes, "get off the boat" is an important mantra...whether that's in town or exploring on the dinghy, walking along a beach or shoreline, etc.  This is a blessing, though.

I think one of the problems people have with boats that "requires" them to have ALL the bells and whistles (a galley "just like" the kitchen at home, huge "closets" for clothes, large "living rooms" etc)...and thus a 45+ footer for a couple...is because they are trying to do all their living ON the boat.  There will be times when you have to stay on the boat, but usually then, you are working...too busy (or too tired) to worry about how big it is and how much space you have.

In port, though...get off the boat.  A lot.   ;D   When people ask us how four of us can live on a 30 foot boat, we like to answer, "we SLEEP on the boat...we LIVE in the whole town, the whole county."  When "out," we do this, too.  You get the idea.

My overall plan is to start slow with lots of marina time and short day sails.  Once she feels more confident, we will do some harbor hoping, then on to a mooring ball and after that maybe go for a night out.

These early times out might set the stage for your whole style.  Getting her used to "marina time" then later making the switch to anchoring out may create more problems than it solves.  Others may disagree, and I can see both sides, but I would advocate anchoring out early in the process and letting that be "the norm" with marina stays the exception.

But you know you and your wife and what's best for you.  But anchoring out is NOT bad or uncomfortable and can be VERY beautiful, provided a few 'givens.'  Watch the weather, pick good sheltered anchorages, maybe avoid being too near too many other boats (the party boats that can ruin an anchorage), proper ground tackle and get REALLY good at anchoring.

That said,

Intuition tells me to go slow and let her comfort level dictate the pace.  

is right on.  The first night we spent aboard a boat together was indeed tied to a dock (a courtesy dock at a launch ramp, so not a marina per se), and the second was anchored out but in a cove within a stone's throw of that same ramp.  You can ease into it and let her set the pace, but you may be surprised at how quick that pace is.

The caveat?  Make the boat her 'zone.' too.  Avoid the traps of YOU knowing where everything is, but she does not, YOU knowing all the procedures, but she does not, YOU having YOUR WAY of doing things, and she is "just there."

Thinking about how you worded that...her 'comfort level.'  If you spend a few nights in the boat at a dock and make the boat itself her comfort level, her "home," where the boat is tied, moored or anchored becomes less an issue.

I have even toyed with the idea of renting a couple lasers and just playing around and showing her all the points of sail as a starting point.  If any of you all have any good ideas or suggestions about how to do this, please let me know.  I would sure welcome some guidance.

Don't dismiss getting her lessons.  This is a GREAT way to let her build confidence in the operation of the boat.  If she's into that sort of thing, there are places that will do "all women" lessons and such.

I am glad that you brought up anchoring because I am curious how this works.  In Florida, it seems that there is a great deal of liberty with respect to anchoring.  In fact, I have found very little about anchoring limitations (aside from obvious things like anchoring in a shipping lane etc.).  Are you basically free to anchor most anywhere in Florida waters (aside from the aforementioned shipping lanes and restricted areas)?  

HAHA, it's funny that you bring up Florida.  We are on the tail end of witnessing some bigtime court issues on anchoring in Florida.  Some towns/counties decided that they wanted to limit anchoring, and some have ordinances like 24 hour limit, 72 hour limit, etc.  It's been going on for years, but I think it has sort of equilibrated for now.

You are free to anchor anyway in 'navigable waters' outside marked channels (shipping or otherwise  :) ).  That does not mean you'd want to, though.  The anchorages you pick will have certain criteria - shelter from wind and waves (and power boat wakes if possible, though that may be a pipe dream), shallow-but-not-too-shallow water, swinging room, etc.  Other boats will be looking for the same thing, so basically, there are certain spots that are "good anchorages."

These will be listed in the cruising guides for a given area....such a guide is generally worth the money.  They tell good anchorages, amenities in the towns (which have repair facilities, which have good restaurants, etc) and some list marina fees and the like.  Short of having a good cruising guide, you quickly learn how to spot good anchorages on the chart...

[Captain Smollett]

about the refridgerator..one day this summer, I am getting one of these!
http://www.compactappliance.com/FP430-Compact-EdgeStar-Portable-Refrigerator-Freezer/FP430,default,pd.html?cgid=Appliances-Freezers-Portable_Fridge_Freezer

Hmmm, similar design and a bit cheaper than the good ole Engel.

Found this review on Amazon :

After buying my own EdgeStar, I tested it with a Kill-a-Watt. It operates at about 60 watts when cooling, and about 6.5 watts when it's not (just the power supply fan, which ALWAYS runs). It draws more power when set on Fast Freeze. Keeping refrigerator-level temps in a 72 degree room (which a thermoelectric can't quite do) one of these boxes *empty* uses an average 1.5AH of power per hour ... The on/off cycle would be different with different content inside and different external temps.

(emphasis added)

1.5 AH / hr x 24 hours = 36 AH.  That's quite a bit over my budget and what I am planning to rely on with my 85 W solar panel.

There's just no way around it...on board refrigeration just pushes our energy requirements past where we want it to be (requires more complex charging system than a single smallish panel...).   >:(

[Captain Smollett]

Wow John, you did it much more justice then I think I did.  :)

I just wanted to make sure you knew I was REALLY listening.   ;)  ;D

[hearsejr]

 yeah I have the same prob with the electrial requirements....I plan on use it it only when I have left overs are when I am at a dock, or expecting guest and want to make ice.  I've also found a place to get a fairly OK deal on those big tractor batteries. I'm looking at getting a new solar panels from harbor freight. they keep going on sell when I don't have any money.
  last summer I went to Brunswick to help my friend Joe with some stuff.
what we did was run it early in the morning and then again at night. he only had 2 golf cart batteries, and we used one of those Honda generators to charge the batteries. he was going to get a solar panel but he ended up giving the boat to a disabled vet for free and bought a 35' Columbia.
here's what he said:


"on the walmart portable coolers, The specs say "Cools to 40? F below ambient temperature" So if is a hot day in high 80 to 90 not very cool.

  I have a Edge star 40 which is the same as the Engel and draws about 4 amps on start then drops to about 1.8 I run it till it comes down to 35 degrees then shut it off and will stay cold for about 12 hours only loosing about 10 degrees. On a normal day will run it in the morning for about two hours and again in the evening the same. Have had it for five years and is great.
Mine also can be used as a freezer going down to -8 degrees if you like. You can push FF ( Fast Freeze) and go from room temp to -8 in about 40 minutes

Joe"

I'm having trouble finding block ice...where do you find it at?

[CharlieJ]

Must agree on the frig. We were recently on a cruise on board a boat with a NICE freezer/frig.. Took four hours a day of engine time, or the generator, to keep it cold. :o :o I refuse to run engines for that long, just for ice cubes, which we don't really need anyway ;) We use a single solar panel which produces 32 watts, which suffices for all our electrical needs. No charge from the engine. There is no 115 system on board. Nothing on board that requires 115 volts.

Didn't have 115 V on the 35 foot trimaran I previously lived aboard either.

We recharge phones, and other batteries from a small inverter, plugged into a cigarette lighter type outlet. Works just fine.

We have a really well insulated ice box on Tehani. Laura and I installed the foam about 4 inches thick ( lid too ya know) and it will hold a 20 pound block  for about 10 days. A 20 pound bag of crushed will last TWO!! But when we were in the Bahamas, we just went without ice. Really didn't miss it either.


How you say? Well, for meats, Laura canned many half pint jars of various meats- Hamburger, roast, pork, sausage, chicken. We picked 1/2 pint jars because the first time she did it, she used pints which were too large, and generated left overs. The 1/2 pints are just right, with other stuff like veggies, so we don't have leftovers, No left overs, no need for a cooler.

We both have a rum and ? occasionally, but mine is usually rum and water- no cool stuff. Or we might have a box wine- again- no cooling needed. Beer is also pretty good at room temps if you choose GOOD beers. That let's most major American beers out doesn't it?

Hearesjr- block ice is where you find it unfortunately. We seldom can find it, and it's getting harder and harder to do so.

Tehani is a small 25 footer.. She has only a 7 foot beam which gives us less room  than an Ariel, but we seldom feel cramped. Of course, both of us are smaller people too. Laura is 5'2" and I'm 5'8" and 155 pounds so we don't require  as much physical space as a pair of 6'+ people would-Clothes are smaller too and require less storage space. Being smaller has certain advantages :D

As for marinas- we rarely go into a marina. We find it cooler, cleaner and less hassle to anchor out. We do go on mooring balls if the locality has them available.  We found quite reasonable prices in many locales. Ft Myers Beach, Marathon, Stuart, Fl come to mind. On my previous cruising boats we went the last 11 months with out ever touching a dock. We did use a marina in the Bahamas as a "check in Spot"  In Bimini we stayed at Weeches for 3 days, then moved to an anchor for the rest of our stay. Same with Nassau-- we stayed at a a marina because Laura had to fly home- easier to make taxi trips, etc. As soon as she flew out, I moved to anchor. Those 5 nights were the only marinas we were at in almost 3 months there.

I'm on the big computer and it doesn't have some pics I'd like to post, so I'll continue this from another machine a bit later.

Edited to add-

Ok, I've looked through 3 computers now and those pics are apparently gone..I had some shots of Laura's on-board canning setup (she uses a large pressure cooker) and some of the meats she canned. Also of the Thanksgiving dinner she did with ham, baked sweet potatoes, another veggie, hot rolls and a pie, all on one burner.

Apparently when we lost the hard drive on this machine, those pics went away. >:( >:(

[Pappy Jack]

If you want inspiration, here is the first of nine videos of a man that took off in an engineless old boat and a little over five hundred dollars in his pocket. He should be an inspiration to all of us.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Ub8WRfvhg&feature=feedf .

Fair winds and full sails.

Pappy Jack

[Chattcatdaddy]

Charlie


I would like some info on how y`all manage a canning operation on the boat. Seems like a excellent idea to keep meats etc... without fridge/ice. Back in the day I watched as my grandmother canned just about everything and I should have paid more attention.


On a side note: Our society is losing alot of these basic skills and I think as a whole we are regressing....IMHO!

[Grime]

Solar panel  45 watt from harbor freight is right at $300. Check out this site. http://www.solarblvd.com they have a 25 watt right now for 60.00. So that adds up to a 180 dollar saving. I've got one of their 20 watt and very happy with it.

I watched a lady that did coupons and most of the time her bill was 0 for a ton of food. You have to work at it. 

[hearsejr]

 I want to know more about canning hamburger and beef. lol.
I've never canned anything in my life, so any help on that would be much appreciated.

the solar panels at harbor freight seem to go on  sale a lot..I get a coupon every couple of weeks that brings the price between $179 to $229. you have to print the coupon out and take it in the store with you. I'll watch the E-sales paper and let you guys know when it comes up again and I'll get the coupon to you some how if anyone wants to get one.

[jotruk]

There's a coupon out right now for 45watt solar panel kit from harbor freight for 159.99 good savings it came out in a sale flyer this weekend and is good until 5/29

[Captain Smollett]

Wasn't there some discussion in an earlier thread on the Harbor Freight solar panels with commentary that there were subpar quality for marine use and to be relied upon?  Maybe these are better than those....I don't know.

Personally, I don't shop at Harbor Freight.  I've heard more horror stories than positive ones regarding quality of what is purchased there.  That's just me.  YMMV.

On the topic of food budgeting:

Raman Noodles and other cheap sources in US super markets are probably not going to be available in overseas ports.  This is one of those things that I think one has to be VERY careful about under budgeting based on what is available HERE.

If you go on a 6 month cruise to the islands, can you really carry a 6 month supply of the el cheapo stuff from the States?  Sailing solo maybe ... a couple, though, it gets harder.  I think it wise to plan to purchase at least SOME food locally, and that's not likely to be the same stuff one is used to seeing in the ultra cheapo isle at Food Lion.

I know a family of eight (parents and six children) that cruise from Canada to the DR every year, and when they leave the US, they are provisioned for three months.  That's on a cat in the upper 30's though...38 feet iirc, so it's got quite a bit of storage compared to most sailfar sized monohulls.

Similarly, coupon shopping is great, but not a solution for underway, especially out of this country.

There are ways to save money that just don't translate to a mobile, nomadic existence.  Years ago, I lived on a food budget of $20 per week or less...but I did NOT enjoy it (though I'm glad I did it...learned a lot) and if the money is available, I will eat "better" any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Stretching the food dollar is a laudable goal, but it's just my opinion that trying to go TOO cheap gets one dangerously close to "am I really enjoying this" territory that we talked about above...especially cruising with a spouse (or any other crew). 

Namaste,  I think a good approach while shore based (before beginning a cruise) is to provision the house (or boat) for a month buying only those items that you have a reasonably good chance of getting anywhere on your cruising destination.  Stock up and then live on that stuff only for that month.

Then you can see what YOU will spend...plus or minus...and you will also learn what you can do day in and day out for a month (or more, but if you go a month, that's a good start) and make adjustments to the provisioning plan.

Raman Noodles?  We cannot do it...my wife HATES them.  She lived off them for a month while she was in college and very poor (and while house sitting for some friends traveling abroad) and now cannot be in the same room with a batch.  Can't say as I blame her....I've eaten my share, too.   ;D  Point is, those things get old FAST.   Ugggh.

[hearsejr]

  ;D ;D hehehehehe so I know what to get Captain Smollett  for christmas...hehehe

I checked on the spaghetti and ravioli today..$.75/can for name brand. these were the cans that were not huge but bigger then the the cans you get for kids. the can of chopped ham..small cans $1, big can was $3, but I can't eat a big can. turkey in the small can were $1.25 and chicken Was $.88 to $1. both white meat in water.  the trouble I have is I like that stuff, over a fancy meal like Cornish hens and rotisserie chicken and stuff.
I can't really suggest anything out side the US, other then what I hear from returning folks on the dock. most of'em say you got to shop around and do the same thing as you would here. also I was told hamburger is high $$ in Bahamas, but lamb is cheaper.
there is another place to get solar panels at a good price, but I'll have to find it again.