Can I afford to Cruise?

[Namaste]

Looks like Charlie found a picture of my boat.  ;D



In all seriousness though, what is going on with the rigging on that vessel?  Two forestays?  Three backstays?  Is the jib sheet being led back between the shrouds?  That web of wire (halyards?) above the main looks rather interesting; What's going on there (gaff rigged?)?

[CharlieJ]

Cutter rigged, so two stays for sails, but maybe two stays up front. Looks like a jib in a bag on the fore deck, below the roller furled jib. Maybe a small jib.

Mass of wires above the main looks to be lazy jacks.

Topping lift to boom end, and possibly double back stays.

Nothing really out of the ordinary about the rig- Just the rest of the poop that stands out. And yes, I've seen boats looking much like this, several times. And occasionally worse.

[Grime]

Yes it is a shame to see boats like this. We see homes on dry land that look the same all the time. Some people are just junk keepers. They count their wealth that way. The more junk the wealthier they feel.

[Captain Smollett]

Yes it is a shame to see boats like this. We see homes on dry land that look the same all the time. Some people are just junk keepers. They count their wealth that way. The more junk the wealthier they feel.

It gets out of hand at some point.

Last year, I threw away some very old, very split teak that had holes drilled in every 8 inches.  It was useless for ANYTHING practical.

Our resident "hoarder" rescued these scraps from the dumpster and put them on his pile on the dock.

Admittedly, this individual may have some very real, diagnosable disorder(s).  My only point is that there is a difference between people who collect junk of SOME value to SOMEONE, versus the pure junk collector.  For some people, even the latter seems to be an inner drive.

[Oldrig]

I assumed that quite a bit of the clutter on "Cumulus" was because they had a very wet sail and had to dry out every piece of cloth and bedding onboard. Perhaps I was being too generous. ;)

--Joe

[mrb]

I wonder if the Commodore would recognize his beloved Florida ?

[Jim_ME]

Joe, that was my first thought as well--that they were doing a general drying out of everything. From the looks of those mountains, probably not near Marathon, FLorida--it could be Tahiti?

My experience is that these are the eclectic characters that are fun to row over to and meet!

[Captain Smollett]

Joe, that was my first thought as well--that they were doing a general drying out of everything. From the looks of those mountains, probably not near Marathon, FLorida--it could be Tahiti?

My experience is that these are the eclectic characters that are fun to row over to and meet!

I think that from the homeowner's perspective, this is a matter of degree.

Someone airing out their wet possessions due to a wet passage looks like that for a day or two...not indefinitely.  That may well be what is going on for that particular boat...but what of the ones that look like that ALL the time?

Again, I am reminded of boaters that show NO regard for those around them.  It's a weird dichotomy - we tend to have a "don't tread on me" attitude, a piratical rebelliousness, yet some fail to show simple regard for others.

Being a "free spirit" living a nomadic lifestyle and exploring the world by boat does not give us license to treat others with disrespect.  The people that live along the shore have just as much "right" to enjoy the water as we do (and we them, of course).

No doubt we are seeing a kneejerk response by the towns, but the bottom line, the undeniable fact, is that they are responding to SOMETHING.  It may not be all boaters, it may not be most boaters, but it *IS* some boaters, and they don't like it.  And the problem of abandoned boats is very real as well.  I don't have any pictures right now, but next time I'm in Beaufort (NC), I'll get a few of the Town Creek anchorage...and those are NOT boats airing out or simply passing through.  Our town "anchorage" is very small by comparison to most, and even here we have some boats that sure do "ugly up" the place.

And...they are visible to EVERYONE passing by town (via car).  From the townfolk point of view, it's no wonder they want SOME control over who's there.

In the ideal world, the towns in Florida work with boaters in trying to resolve the issue rather than drawing lines in the sand and forcing governmental and legal resolutions.  But I do see their side (not that I agree with it all)...the waterfront is a resource they have to sell - either via homeownership (see the nice view) or waterfront restaurants, etc... my point to them would be that the sooner they realize that that same waterfront is a resource from the water side as well, the better a workable solution for everyone can be found.

[Frank]

Can you afford to cruise??  I posted this Hayden quote here back in december of 05. Your answer lays within......

......."To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea - "cruising," it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

"I've always wanted to sail to the South Seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense. And we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.

The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life? "

[s/v Faith]

Can you afford to cruise??  I posted this Hayden quote here back in december of 05. Your answer lays within......

......."To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea - "cruising," it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

"I've always wanted to sail to the South Seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone.

What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense. And we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.

The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it the tomb is sealed.

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life? "

...and the occasional grog.   ;D

  Here is one on me Frank.

[Chattcatdaddy]

Grog for that Frank! Says it all! As I read through that post I came to the conclusion that I desire to be a "voyager" rather than a "cruiser". A little insecurity helps remind you that you are alive!

I was having a conversation with some coworkers the other day and trying to explain my motivations for sailing and giving up a career and just taking off. The only way I could explain the decision was to tell them that I`m at my best when  I`m a little "uncomfortable" about my life. The Hayden qoute says it with a little more poetic flare.

[Frank]

Talking to friends....another ole quote comes to mind:

"if you have to explain...they won't understand"   ;)

[Chattcatdaddy]

Talking to friends....another ole quote comes to mind:

"if you have to explain...they won't understand"   ;)

Exactly!

[Jim_ME]

My thought about ugly boats is the quote "It's difficult to legislate (and regulate) good taste".

[w00dy]

Thanks, Frank. I needed that. Grog!!!

[tomwatt]

I think the thing (re: ugly boats) that I find most disturbing about some boats is the obvious neglect or intentional misuse.
I realize that some folks argue that Grampians and Westerlys are "ugly", but I'm less put off by graceless or clunky lines if the vessel is seaworthy or functional in some way.
But I can't think of a sailboat I've ever seen that was less graceful than the average motorboat, bass boat, etc.
I've even admired lobster boats that were sporting little mizzen masts with mizzensails! Puts a different spin on the concept of "motorsailing"!

I've been doing a lot of soul-searching myself lately, as I work towards getting SV Never Enough ready for spring commissioning. I am going to focus on safety & seaworthiness first & foremost, with only a hint of creature comfort concens. I'm also cancelling plans for a roller furling jib and staying with the hank-on sails for now.

With family indicating they'd not like me to go cruising long-term, I begin to wonder if I'm going to end up land-bound, land-locked, day-dreaming forever. But one bright spot in all this is my daughter (whose personality & temperament is a lot like mine) loves the boat, even expressed an interest in learning to sail. And thinks it's great that I want to teach my grandson to sail.

To bring this train of thought into the station, am I the only one here who is put off at the sight of a 45' long mega-sailboat? I'm surely not, given the focus of the forums here, but past the 35' makr, boats look funny to me. I think a nice size range is the 25' to 35' LOA. Beyond that it just looks all wrong to me.

[Jim_ME]

After thinking about this a bit, I guess that the issue that I feel is that the right to navigate and to anchor is an essential freedom of sailing and cruising.

One parallel that comes to mind for me is the freedom of expression and speech. It's easy to support another's when they say things that we agree with, it's when they they say things that we disagree with, or that are offensive, where it may not be so easy.

It just concerns me that the solution may be becoming putting municipal (government run) mooring fields in place that fill existing harbors, and then enacting a no-anchor buffer zone around it, and limiting access to shore and having these dinghy docks that charge quite a bit for those frugal cruisers out there. Then having the livelihood of those that interpret the definition of the buffer zone directly affected by that interpretation, and possibly others that enforce it  also being paid out of the municipal revenues fed by those policies.

It seems to me that encroachment of rights usually starts with good intentions on the part of the authorities, and wanting to get "some control".

I sometimes read or see something in the news and think...Wow, that's offensive, but then usually think, well if that's the price we pay to protect everyone's freedoms, than it's well worth it.

I feel that if a boat is either anchored or moored next to me, and it is ugly and neglected, I may feel somewhat judgmental--but that is my opinion and there may be some social or sailing culture disapproval, and it seems to me that this is or should be enough in many situations. It is a very different thing to make those things illegal and then setup far-reaching mechanisms and institutions to interpret, enforce, and impose these judgments on all cruisers. That does seem unfortunate to me.

Much of my sailing has been done in a rural part of Downeast Maine where there is a strong live and let live and to each his own culture, which may color my thinking on this... In my winter escape scenario I've often looked at Boot Key Harbor as a possible destination, but now the mooring field and the coming no-anchor buffer zone of as-yet-to-be-determined distance, has made it somewhat uncertain, and I'm starting to feel that I've lost something by these new changes--even before I got down there...that we all have.

[Jim_ME]

Yes, I think that we can all agree that abandoning boats is clearly an irresponsible act that creates a very real cost to the community and its taxpayers.

My understanding is that in Boot Key Harbor, this was a problem for many years, and the municipality had no effective response--and that people may have even brought boats there intending to abandon them. 

It does seem reasonable that the municipality should be able to pursue any such owners and get reimbursed for the cost of removing and disposing of abandoned vessels. I believe that once boat owners knew this was a certain consequence, that the boat abandonment may have stopped, even without mooring fields and no-anchor buffer zones.

[Captain Smollett]

It does seem reasonable

I think you and I (and others) have used "reasonable" in discussing how this should have been handled...

"Reasonable" did not enter into it.  The whole thing was an emotional response to an emotional problem, for both sides.

[Jim_ME]

South Florida may, in places like Boot Key Harbor, be moving from a near Somalia situation with a vacuum of any authority, toward--with these large mooring fields and proposed no-anchor zones--a North Korea model...  ;)