Power: Solar, wind, lights, towed....???

[TritonSkipper]

darn, forgot...


I saw a reefer I liked in BWS July 2009 by Engel-USA http://www.engel-usa.com/mt35.htm, it's the MT35. I would like to set up the electrical system with an inverter, but I don't know if I'm going overboard or not. They are expensive as well. I will have a starter battery as well. I already bought a Blue Seas 8- position DC panel, battery switch and ACR. I can save for that, but after I came back from Iraq, I bought my boat, bought some goodies, then was diagnosed with cancer. I'm all good now, but my savings went to killing cancer. So I will have to save for those two items. They're needed so they're important. I still need to design the whole electrical system, that ought to be interesting. My cruising grounds...hmmmm. Well I'm going to initially head out to Marathon, FL or around there and grab a mooring for cheap and save and finish getting the girl cruise ready. Then I thought I would cruise the Caribbean for a long while and then after a year or 2, head through the canal to the Pacific. Lofty goals huh?

Jeff

[s/v Faith]

I would like to set up the electrical system with an inverter, but I don't know if I'm going overboard or not.

 The inverter is ok, as long as you only use it for AC only loads.... and as few as you can.  I have a few, keep in mind that a 1000w inverter is much less efficient for a 50w load then a 60w inverter.

 What do you need to run on the inverter?  

The Engle is a great unit, I think the 35 uses the same compressor as my 27.  I run mine on '1' and it draws 2.7a IIRC when it is running.  It runs more when you are in hotter climates then cooler.  Also depends on how often you open the lid.

 You can find wind generators used from time to time.  Just do your research since most that have been around long enough to be for sale used are too darn loud to live with unless you are deaf.

 The Solar panels are next to impossible to get any kind of deal on used.

I think it is worth while to get some things new, to reduce the chance of failure 'out there'.



Might surf around here to look at alternatives to the refrigeration thing... Lots of small boat Sailors do without and get used to it.

Lofty goals huh?

  Not at all.  Few here will.  That is one of the differences between this and some of the other forums.   ;D

[TritonSkipper]

I thought I would need the inverter for my laptop? I know about the luxury of a reefer. But There I go reading those god forsaking sail magazines and they had an article about catching and cleaning fish to stay on the cheap, something I believe in, but to do that effectively, I need to be able to freeze or chill the extra fish for future meals. Not meaning to overburden you Craig, but your boat is basically the same size, where do you fit everything, like a stove, reefer and such. I haven't decided if I'm putting a stove in or just using a burner like James Baldwin did.

Jeff

[s/v Faith]

A small inverter for the laptop is a necessary evil.  That is unless you get one of the new netbook laptops.  Read more about them here.

WRT stoves take a look at this link.

  There are a bunch of knowledgeable Sailors here, and lots of good info to read through.  I am happy to help in any way I can but you might use the search function to benefit from the combined experience here.

 

[skylark]

You could dry the fish instead of freezing it.

[skylark]

I second the powerpole suggestion.

If you use 12 to 14 gauge wire, get the 30 amp pack.

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/30-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html

I use these as trailer connectors and on an electric bicycle.  After a long search for decent dc electric connectors, these came out on top.

[Lynx]

Plase support wires a sclose to termination as possible to help solver problems at termination.

[AdriftAtSea]

An inverter isn't a necessity for a laptop, since many can be run with a DC-based power supply.  Targus, iPower, and several other companies make DC-based adapters for many brands of laptops.  These are often more efficient than using an inverter and the AC-based power supply for the laptop, since you have less in the way of conversion losses.

[s/v Faith]

An inverter isn't a necessity for a laptop, since many can be run with a DC-based power supply.  Targus, iPower, and several other companies make DC-based adapters for many brands of laptops.  These are often more efficient than using an inverter and the AC-based power supply for the laptop, since you have less in the way of conversion losses.

  Yes, they do make them.  Here is a link for one for my boat laptop.    It costs $99 dollars, and the increase in DC voltage is accomplished by changing the DC to ac (as an inverter does) and then rectifying it back to DC at the higher voltage.  It might be a bit more efficient then the standard power supply running on an inverter, but I doubt it is efficient enough to be worth $99.... IMHO.

[Tim]

I just found $16 dc converter for my MSI  netbook. Though I am a little hesitant because the only thing MSI sells is a universal for $70, I am going ahead but checking voltage output before using it.

[psyche]

Jeff,
Where are you now? I live in Richmond Hill, Ga just off the ICW. If you want to lay over here you are welcome to anchor here or tie to my boat at my dock while you work on your boat. The cost here is very good...Free! We completely rebuilt the interior of my boat and refitted the rigging. James Baldwin keeps Atom anchored here next to my dock. Many individuals rent space at the condo docks at St. Simons which is where James works on boats.  You can work on your boat there and get James' advice or get him to do some of the work. Dan

[psyche]

Craig,
Thanks for the tip on the 135 watt solar panel. I am headed down on the dock with my tape measure to see if it will fit where my 80 watt is or if I can place it somewhere else. Dan

[s/v Faith]

I was surprised at the price too Dan,

  Hard to go wrong with that one.  ;)

Man, Psyche was already pretty well 'decked out' when I saw her.  You are not saving yourself any work to do... what are you going to do with your time while you are cruising?   ;D ;)

[TritonSkipper]

Jeff,
Where are you now? I live in Richmond Hill, Ga just off the ICW. If you want to lay over here you are welcome to anchor here or tie to my boat at my dock while you work on your boat. The cost here is very good...Free! We completely rebuilt the interior of my boat and refitted the rigging. James Baldwin keeps Atom anchored here next to my dock. Many individuals rent space at the condo docks at St. Simons which is where James works on boats.  You can work on your boat there and get James' advice or get him to do some of the work. Dan

Hi Dan,

I live in the Great State of Connecticut! I am in intermittent contact with James Baldwin, as a matter of fact I'm waiting for a response to an email now.  That is an extremely generous offer, I was considering going down to where James was, but wanted to find out how much he charged hourly.  I just might take you up on the offer though.  It wouldn't be until next summer the earliest because I still need to do the bottom painting, electrical, and get the Atomic 4 running. But let me reiterate, that is a very generous offer, thanks Dan.

Jeff

[Piraten]

I could use some advice:


As a cheap skate I'm looking for the biggest bang for the buck.

I want to build a versatile charging system that can be added to as needed.  I'll start with a couple solar panels, but then I need a battery charger/maintenance setup that doesn't overcharge my batteries.  The system also needs to be as close to plug and play with shore powered battery chargers, inverters, wind generators (if I find one cheap).  My inboard is gone, but I do have an electric start Nissan hanging off the back that can be used for power in a pinch.  The old atomic has been pulled out and I plan on putting 2-3 batteries there in it's place, freeing up the salon storage area.  I want the ability to be completely free from shorepower without running an engine.

So far my power requirements consist of:

-1-2 laptops
-Incandescent nav lights
-Car stereo radio setup with 4 speakers
-Humminbird depth sounder
-Incandescent interior lights
-2 fans
-Automotive fog lights used as spreader lights
-Outboard has a pull start also so I'm not figuring it into my power consumption.

Future wants  (not needs) (not in any order)

- Refrigeration even if it is one of those ice cooler looking models.
-Heater for interior
-Possible hot water
-microwave
-GPS other than my hand held

Most of my power consumption is at night, so what battery size will last all night for my needs.  Thanks

[Shipscarver]

I wish I could help, but I am electrically challenged.
However, I did pick up a "shed light" 4 watt solar powered unit at Harbour Fr (I think it was $25).  The solar unit goes on the stern pulpit and the "shed light" plugs in to a cord running to the power unit so it can be rigged under the bimini.  
I also bought the stainless steel solar garden lights. They only have 1 LED in them and cast very little light. I put one on a boarding side stanchion so people know which boat is mine at the dock. Pretty, but not very much light.

[Tim]

Piraten I think you need to do a full energy budget in order to assess what your true needs will be. There are a number of good books on the subject ones by Don Casey and Nigel Calder just to name a couple. My guess is given the loads you are talking about production would be as big a problem as storage without a generator aboard.

[Piraten]

After rereading my post I think I'm asking the wrong question.  So let me try again.

1. I want to be able to charge 2-3 batteries at a time which will be my main house bank.
2. I want to be able to add charging systems as time and money become available without having to rebuy controllers/chargers and stuff.
3. As I get power greedy for other cool toys, charging system easily added to.
4. Every system stand alone so that if one fails, I'm not powerless.

EX:
Right now I use a battery charger at the dock to charge my batteries.  Good for a daysail/1 night, then I'm coming back to the dock with a handheld VHF and no depth sounder because my batteries are dead.

Currently I have three different types of batteries.  One stand alone for the outboard.  One deep cycle house, and one that used to start the atomic 4.  All batteries are going to be moved to where the inboard used to be.  All batteries will be changed to a standard size and deep cycle for the house bank and the stand alone for the outboard will be moved there too.

At least one solar panel will be added to the boat.  I'd like it to be a stand alone system and monitor itself to the battery charging.  If I run two panels, I'd like each one isolated from eachother so if one panel/brain box goes bad, it doesn't shut the whole solar charging system down.

If I find a wind generator at a deal I can't pass up, I'd like to run it seperately to the battery for charging.

The systems that I've seen run all the different charging types through a central brain, but if that brain goes bad, you're screwed. 

So my question is, is it worth having each panel on it's own charge controller and hooked to a central bus that goes to the batteries, or is it better to have all the power sources (panels/wind/tow generator) go through a central controller?

[skylark]

The easiest would be to have a charge controller and solar panel(s) for each battery bank. 

It may be difficult to find room for three solar panels.

Can you start the outboard with the battery for the Atomic 4?  That would reduce the number of battery banks and simplify things a bit.

For the motor starting battery, the following system should be adequate:
http://store.solar-electric.com/poup10wa12vo.html
http://store.solar-electric.com/sg-4.html

For the house bank, it depends on size of the bank and your power use.  For a somewhat stingy power use the following would work:
http://store.solar-electric.com/kc-40.html
http://store.solar-electric.com/ss-10l.html
The controller is oversized and would allow you to add additional 12V panels up to a total of 120W.
Look at the dimensions of the solar panel and make sure you have a place to mount it.  You may wish to have a more rectangular shape than a square to fit your mount location.

These panel/controller systems are smart chargers and you can install them and forget about them, they will keep working for years.  The batteries seem to like this type of charge and they also will have a long life when they are topped up a bit with power every day.

[s/v Faith]

I am going to merge this into the other power / energy budget thread.  I recommend you go back and read through it, as there are many ways to skin this cat and many of them have been discussed here in the past.  Lots of good info here to think about.

Especially look at making an energy budget.  Here is a post in this thread that (attempts) to explain how to do that.

Just a couple of points.

1.  KISS. Keeping your power system simple will decrease cost and increase efficiency.  It is easy to loose sight of the fact that electricity is not required to sail.  Critical uses might be seen as navigation, and being visible to other traffic at night.  Does your GPS also have batteries?  Do you have a good flashlight to shine on the sails in worst case?  Manual bilge pump>?  If the answer is yes your power supply is not going to sink your boat or get you killed.  If the answer is no, you might want to re-consider.

2.  Minimize loads.  LED's make a HUGE difference in your energy budget.  Running a 1.25a anchor light for 12 hours wipes out the output of a 60w solar panel on an overcast day.  Replace it with an LED and you are good of 4 or 5 days on the same charge.... maybe twice that.

So far my power requirements consist of:

-1-2 laptops
-Incandescent nav lights
-Car stereo radio setup with 4 speakers
-Humminbird depth sounder
-Incandescent interior lights
-2 fans
-Automotive fog lights used as spreader lights
-Outboard has a pull start also so I'm not figuring it into my power consumption.

Future wants  (not needs) (not in any order)

- Refrigeration even if it is one of those ice cooler looking models.
-Heater for interior
-Possible hot water
-microwave
-GPS other than my hand held

Running a microwave is going to increase the stakes considerably.  Even the short term use will draw a lot of amps (requires a big inverter).  

Electric heaters and electric hot water heaters are pure inductive loads... HUGE users of electricity.  Unless you are going to install and run a 5k genset, you should look at other fuels for heat.

I think there have been discussions about most of the other loads you mention.  The owners manual lists the approximate current use of some specific gear (like your fishfinder).