Westerly Centaur

[Lost Farmboy]

One turned up, and I jumped for it. It's a 1969 Westerly Centaur; number 83 according to the main.

It needs a haul out and bottom painting for starters (last one of either was in 2008), a replacement mainsail, and should have various other work done to it, though nothing else would be required before she would can be sailed. The original Volvo MD2 is still in place and operational, and unless I can get a mainsail within 3 or 4 days it will have to be the mode of propulsion for getting the Centaur up to a boat yard in Port Townsend.

Looking forward to getting her back into sailing condition.

[Captain Smollett]

Congrats!  Looking forward to many stories of the refit and cruising.   :)

[phil416]

Congratulations!  Your gonna love this tough little boat.  Westerlys are everywhere being sailed by enthusiastic owners.  Fairwinds  Phil

[Jim_ME]

Congrats, as well. I had just seen this Centaur in your area and was about to suggest it as a possibility for you. You've beat me to it.

Here's one source of the rig and sail dimensions.

I have a project Centaur myself. I like the layout in the early ones that have the dinette, which is elevated so that you can look out the large ports while seated.

[Lost Farmboy]

Thanks for the congrats, and thanks for the rig/sail dimensions Jim!

I've done a little work on her, and am taking her up to be hauled out tomorrow. Having gotten more familiar with the boat, a couple of the through hulls make me nervous. One for the head is weeping water (both plug cock type through hulls are frozen for the head - in the open position) and the one for the engine cooling intake is weeping water more severely - as the bilge is shallow, water is up near the top daily due to this slow leak. Materials for stopping leaks are at hand for this 15-20 mile trip to the boatyard, and I acquired a good dingy to take along, just in case.

I am really looking forward to getting her hauled out, as I don't see a way to fix these leaks until it's out of the water. She could be beached, but I don't think that would be adequate time to enact any meaningful repairs.

Will post again once I find out what the bottom looks like.

[Lost Farmboy]

Made it up to the boatyard, motoring for 10.5 hours with no issues besides learning respect for tidal currents in choke points (spent 3.5 hours traveling less than 1 mile through the Port Townsend Canal, against a 3 knot current).

After she was hauled out of the water, half of a 55 gallon trash can was filled with the aquatics that were on the hull. Blisters were visible everywhere, but it became apparent that these were from water getting between the layers of bottom paint; I have yet to see a sign of a blister in the layers of fiberglass.

I removed the valve side of the weeping engine cooling through hull, which had more than doubled its leak rate on the trip up. This bronze ball valve fitting, which also had the ground attached to it, was threaded into a plastic (hopefully Marelon) through hull. Only two full threads were holding the through hull in place.

Since having her hauled out, and the water leakage stopped from below, I'm now looking at fixing topside leaks. The forward portholes do not seem to be leaking, though the aft set are leaking badly. Some indications point to leakage occurring behind the heat shield around the wood stove, as whoever installed that shield decided to drill through the deck about 8 times to hold it in place. The cleats all need to be redone, this time with backing plates used instead of the 1/4 inch flat washers. Finally, I stripped out all the old vinyl lining and removed the cushions; these were all water damaged, mildewed, and falling apart. I am considering just painting the fiberglass and forgetting about a liner, at least for the near future, to allow easy monitoring of the attachment points of deck equipment for leakage

Other projects not mentioned above include:
-finding/fixing diesel leak (suspected to be from the tank)
-fixing exhaust installation
-rerouting cockpit drainage and bilge pump piping (currently 2 shared through hulls below the waterline; cockpit fails to drain well through either, and bilge pump normally pumps some of bilge contents into cockpit rather than overboard)
-changing the toilet arrangement - either replace with portable in some form, or use a Don Casey idea with a holding tank (top fill, gravity drain overboard)
-painting above the waterline, and the topsides - the fiberglass fibers are exposed in a couple places where the gelcoat appears to have worn thin

[Jim_ME]

Congrats Bryan on getting the boat over to the boatyard and hauled out.

I've heard that the Centaurs have decent speed under power since they have a long waterline and most were equipped with the Volvo MD2B with 25 hp, and that the clear area forward of the prop that the twin keels provide, allows for good water flow past it. The down side may be that this also creates exposure to lobster pots--a real hazard in this area. (At least you can beach the boat to cut one free, if need be.)

A bit scary to imagine that engine intake thru-hull failing, creating a big leak and possibly making the motor unusable at the same time. It underscores the wisdom of having one of those wooden plugs handy to stop any major leak there.

I was thinking that since you are about to work on the head thru-hulls, that it might be a good time to consider whether a different setup would work for you. I've read in other threads about many cruisers who like to eliminate as many thru-hulls as possible, and have installed heads with holding tanks and deck pump-outs or even composting heads, and glassed up the thru-hulls.

I've got some old thru-hulls and seacocks on my Bristol Corinthian 20 that served a (now missing) overboard-discharging head. On a daysailer/overnighter like this, glassing over/eliminating the thru-hulls seems close to a no-brainer, although I may wait until after this season to do it.

Yeah, those vinyl fabric cabin ceiling liners seem to be coming loose on all the Westerly boats that I've seen, and just create a space behind them that you can't ventilate and clean--and allows mildew and mold to grow there. I've seen boats where it is removed and the fiberglass is painted, and that seems to work fine.

The cockpit drain hoses do seem to be overly long. All that I can think of is that Giles wanted to slope the cockpit sole to aft scuppers to keep water away from the motor/trans/stuffing box access panel at the forward end of the cockpit. Or maybe it was so that the cockpit would drain if the boat was sloped slightly while on the hard to cause water in the bilge to flow from under the cabin sole back toward the small sump under the motor, where a bilge pump intake hose may be located. Then he may have located the thru-hulls forward so that the seacocks could be accessed more conveniently from the main cabin.

I'm a bit concerned about the fuel tank fill hose inlet/cap being located in the cockpit sole. Seems to me that since while cruising the cockpit may often have some water in it, that if the gasket at the fill cap were to leak, it would be prone to letting water into the fuel. It may be wise to relocate the fill to a higher place, such as one of the side decks, or aft of one of the seats in the cockpit.  

As far as the main portlights leaking, I've seen articles about the early Centaurs lower aft shroud chainplates location above the portlight causing enough flexing around the portlight to create leaking. On the later models, the chainplate is located forward of the portlight to prevent this (they may have reduced the length of the large portlights so that they are aft of the chainplate). I've seen articles where owners have installed a stainless steel bar bolted to the chainplate and running down across the interior of the portlight, and then bolted it to the cabin trunk side below the portlight, to distribute and carry the load over it. One that I saw had installed a grab handle to this chainplate extension. This may only occur under heavy weather conditions with high strain on the rig, so the leaking that you are experiencing may not be caused by this condition. Still may be good to be aware of if you have plans to go offshore in the future.  

Good luck with your repairs.

-Jim

[Jim_ME]

If you are on a budget, it may be worth checking out some of the used sail sources for a mainsail to use for now.

I'm doing that for the Corinthian 20. At the moment, I just don't want to invest in a new set of sails. Since I have a larger boat and this boat is mostly a daysailer may also be a trailer-sailer part of the time, I'm thinking that a Typhoon at 2000 pounds is plenty large enough, and the extra 700 pounds of the Corinthian is more than I need. I'm also thinking that I would prefer the Typhoon's self-draining/bailing cockpit. (although I have heard that many like the deeper open cockpit of the Corinthian, Ensign, or Sea Sprite daysailer model) I also have a nice genoa that fits the Typhoon. So I may see if I can trade this Corinthian for a Typhoon, and am not sure that I could recoup the investment in a new set of sails in this market. Or would rather wait and invest in a boat that I know that I plan to keep.

In general, over the long term, you often get what you pay for, but I've found that this can be an option to get out sailing at a low initial investment. Here are some sources I've been looking at...

Minneys
Bacon
Atlantic

I've done business with Bacon Sails in the past, and have been pleased for the most part, but have no experience with the others.

Perhaps other members have other sources to recommend...and may have more experience with (including the above ones).

[Lost Farmboy]

(been sitting a variaton of this post for a couple of weeks now, sorry for slow reply)

I'm currently leaning towards glassing in the through hulls for the head, and just putting in a portable, which will be sufficient. The old seacocks aren't in that great of shape, and that also eliminates two holes, so it seems like a better choice than putting in a holding tank.  With the engine... I'll have to see what is in need of replacement, besides the fuel tank, through hull, shaft zinc, cutless bearing, and some exhaust hosing. I wouldn't mind losing the diesel smell and gaining a fair amount of space inside, but also like diesel engines, as well as the relative simplicity of this engine (compared to many newer gas or diesel engines). Also, an outboard would need to be installed on a bracket off the back, which I would rather avoid having on this boat. I'll probably leave the cockpit drain lines as they are for this haul out, but run the bilge pumps to a through hull that is above the waterline, probably at the stern of the boat.

Another idea that I'd had with the engine intake through hull would be to install a Y-valve on a cockpit drain through hull; as the cockpit drains are only 4-6 inches aft of the current engine intake (in need of replacement) and at the same depth, it seems like a workable option. My only hesitation is that it would mean isolating one cockpit drain when the engine is in use, though this should not be a problem for the times when I expect to need the diesel. Input on this subject would be most welcome.

I plan to change something with the lower aft shroud chainplates as well; I don't know if they are the major factor in the leaking around the main portlights, or if the bedding has simply expired after four decades of service. Either way, I hope to do something to spread out the force from that chainplate, as well as enlarge or install backing plates for various other fittings which seem lacking.

Thanks for the links to secondhand sail businesses; it looks like J24 and Catalina 25/27 mainsails seem to have similar dimensions to the Centaur's. The jibs are both rather worn as well, with Hasse Sails of Port Townsend having rated one as having a couple of seasons left in it, and the other as dead. Both of these jibs and the main came from the same sailmaker in Cowes, England and were probably original equipment with the boat. A rough estimate of the cost for a new mainsail and a new jib from Hasse would be about $7750 (plus or minus $750) for the pair. Due to my work schedule and the amount of work that is left to do on the boat, I'll hold off on this decision until later, probably close to 9 months or so from now.

Work has progressed far more slowly than I'd like due to various reasons (deciding what is and what is not junk, what must be removed and what can stay, learning how to epoxy, use an orbital sander, take care with painting, being reluctant to rapidly test my new learning) but there is less debris inside, there are fewer poorly bedded fixtures, the companionway and hatch are rebedded and primed for painting, and I am learning more and more about this Westerly Centaur. I just wish that the boats appearance better reflected the time that I have spent working on it.

Incidentally, the Centaur is currently unnamed, and portless. I have not yet decided on how to deal with either of these issues, though I have considered "Meerschweinchen" as a name, as it contains special meaning to me. I am looking forward to sanding the stern and discovering what name(s) may be hidden under paint. Or perhaps this is how it has always been...

Jim, thanks for your responses, and for the links to secondhand sail businesses. The Corinthian looks like a good boat from the pictures/descriptions that I've seen. If I hadn't been wanting to get a boat with the space to live aboard for extended periods of time, I would have been looking at boats more like her.

[Stefan]

Wondering how your refurb is progressing?

I owned a Centaur for 25 yrs and lived aboard for a few. We used to have a good US based discussion list back in the 90's.

Stefan

[marujo_sortudo]

A couple of thoughts on points mentioned above:

1.  I'm happy with my cockpit sole fuel fill and would be happy with any such arrangement as long as it was not at the lowest point of the cockpit.  I don't find my side decks to be much drier, but then again, I like to sail in big winds and also wash down the deck regularly.  As a plus, any fuel spill in the cockpit is somwhat contained.  I wish I didn't know that.  :-[

2.  I wouldn't use a Y valve to connect both a cockpit drain the engine intake to the same through hull.  Firstly, lots of gunk tends to go down through cockpit drains, e.g. hair, bits of food, etc.  I wouldn't want this gunking up or chipping away at my impeller, etc.  Furthermore, any engine intake through hull should have a strainer to block big bits coming in, but this would only make it easier for the cockpit drain to clog.  My engine intake is plumbed to the same through hull as the galley's salt water pump which seems a sensible solution, if you have one and it is nearby.

[Lost Farmboy]

It's been a while since an update, and less has been accomplished than I would like - I failed to recognize just how little time I had available, underestimated time for work, and did not decide on a plan for work to be accomplished before putting her in the water until relatively recently. Getting her back in the water with minimal improvements above the waterline is the plan I am now following, and which I ought to have started with. Appearance inside and (to a degree) topside will be taking the backseat it should already have had.
I am in the process of pulling the inboard diesel; too much needs replacement and repair on the old beast. An outboard motor (about 5-8 hp) will be replacing it due to the reasons mentioned in previous posts, and on most pro-outboard discussions. Many components are disconnected and removed, with portions of the engine block remaining. That should be lifted out in August (boatyard hours and work schedule will allow for lifting out inboard at that time), unless breaking it down further for removal makes it small enough to remove by hand. Volvo MD2B parts, anyone?
The installed head is removed, with only the through hulls remaining to be removed and the holes filled. The diesel?s seawater intake will require filling as well.
The wood stove will not be reinstalled; it is not practical for the insulation and fuel space it demands. Looking at other stoves will be a project for later.
The exhaust overboard will be used for the bilge pump overboard, allowing the cockpit drain overboards to be used for that purpose alone, and pump overboards to come out above the water line.
Through hulls below the waterline will be reduced to two cockpit drains and one sink drain. All will have their hardware replaced due to current materials and material conditions being unsatisfactory or questionable at best.
No mainsail has been purchased at this time.
No outboard or mount has been purchased at this time. Have looked at mounts, and am not certain of what type would be best, other than (based on other sailboats I?ve seen) ensuring that there is adequate lift to prevent the prop from being in the water when not in use (and ensuring it is deep enough when in use ? something that may be difficult to tell due to the change in ballast from removing the engine. For an outboard, a manual start two stroke would be preferred for the sake of simplicity. Don?t have an outboard in mind, though I?m planning on going for a used one. Any advice on an age/make of outboard to look for? Ones I have seen in the area include a ?98 Mercury 8hp ($850) and a ?77 Johnson Sea Horse 6hp ($300).

[matt195583]

G'day, regarding the sink drain, I am in the same boat I have 7 thu hull fittings only 4 of which are used 3 being blanked off and filled with epoxy filler ( they will be done properly next haul out. I had planned on removing the seacock for the sink and using a   lift out tub for the sink , then i came up with the idea of mounting a whale pump directly to the sink so when the plug is pulled you give the pump a few cranks and pump it out a fitting that is above the water line.  just a thought .

[CharlieJ]

I did a stainless steel lift out sink on Tehani, Have been very happy with it. It's a steam table tray from a restaurant supply house, cost 14 bucks (then- $18 now) and works just fine. No pump to mess with, no opening in the boat..

Have cruised some 10,000 miles all told using it like that-3 trips.,

Try it that way for a bit- you can ALWAYS cut a hole in the hull, not so easy to seal one.

Necessity of course just has a plastic dishpan, usually used in the cockpit.

[Lost Farmboy]

Thanks for the responses!

I'd been thinking along roughly the same lines as Matt for the future, connecting either the drain, or a very small holding tank beneath the sink, as an input for the manual drain pump for pumping overboard. The Navy has influenced me in some ways with this, in that it is normal for drain pumps to pump from multiple locations, using a common line, with only a single ball valve separating each location from the common line.

However, at this time, I will be replacing that through hull with a new one (currently it drains very rapidly with the valve open - or shut), using it as originally designed. Later, as this through hull is below the water line, and there are already two pumps for the sink (both fresh water - why??), I intend to change this over to being a seawater suction for a galley pump.

After just thinking about that a bit more, the current through hull location may be a bit too close to the waterline to function well as a suction - I may have another one to fill in rather than replace.

[marujo_sortudo]

Often inlet thru-hulls are smaller, too, i.e., safer, less expensive.  One might even be able to wish that a direct strike might only claim the strainer, but that could just be wishful thinking.

[matt195583]

I also picked up salt water for the galley from the engine inlet ( the inlet for the head also comes from there) . I only hooked it up before this use a bucket trip, it runs to a hand pump at the sink although I will change it to a foot pump when i get a chance . Foot pump equals pure awesomeness.

Having the salt water at the galley saves a massive amount of water, although i suppose you could always use a bucket to get some.  Myself and a friend have been cruising for about a month now and we topped off the tanks after 2 1/2 weeks for a total of 38 liters .......... That is 38 out of 300 + 2 x 20l water cans.

[marujo_sortudo]

I have one through-hull for both galley salt water and engine intake, as well.  There is an additional ball valve for the galley portion so that if it is leaking, if can be shut off but the engine will still be usable.  Seems like a sound arrangement to me.

[Lost Farmboy]

A couple of ball valves that will not be returning to my boat. Can you identify the major problems?
(hope the picture shows - if not clear, a code on both these valves is "MS58")

[Oldrig]

It's a good idea to dump the ball valves and replace them with true seacocks, if you can get them.