the epic journey of the great WOOLY BAH BAH

[Captain Smollett]

Another suggestion on the psychological/rest issue....

Couple of nights in a marina to (a) get some rest and (b) regroup in general.

Would that help?

Edit:  Ooops, sorry, Bob...Your PS just registered in my brain.  "Me too, Me too!"

[JWalker]

Thanks for the replys!

We headed out of clearwater yesterday and across tampa bay, we are now in bradenton beach and I think tomorrow we will move to the buttonwood anchorage...it looks well protected and there is a dingy dock.

Sarasota has been a destination since we began because a friend I grew up with lives there and we want to see him ect.

A few days rest absolutly is what we need.

anchor specs:

Primary fortress fx11 on 50 feet of 5/16" chain and 150 1/2" line

Secondary 14 lb delta on 25 feet 1/4" chain and 75 feet if 3/8" line

We have had the issue of the fortress/danforth style not reseting with a current shift, so that is why we had the stern anchor out.

I've been hesitant to put out two bow anchors because I have been worried about the lines tangling up and also about the line getting wraped around the fin keel. This is why I had a stern anchor out.

I had 7:1 scope out on the primary, and I had loosened the stern off a bit when the wind picked up, so she could lie to the wind/waves.

34 knots of wind was NOT in the forcast, they said there were some thunder storms comming and maybe 25 knots.

After the blow I checked wund.com and shortley before it began they had issued a notice about the high winds...but we had checked the weather an hour before they posted the notice, so we missed it.


So far I am not happy with the fortress anchor.

The Delta is a great anchor....but not as big as I would like it. I have been looking for a 22# delta, but not found one im my price range.


Swinging on one anchor....is this safe in a current shifting area? I see a number of boats doing it.....but I'm already loosing sleep! (no I would not just swing on the fortress.

Now I do have to keep in mind that the anchor held for two hours.

it was when the boat started sailing around really bad that it pulled loose.

I didnt have the riding sail up because of the high winds.

I am in a high freeboard boat with fin keel....so there is alot of windage up to and not a lot of waterage down below.
(this is not our ideal forever boat, its the one we had when we got the chance to take 6 months)

The more I have thought about it, I'm not happy with the fortress...but I really think the sailing around is what worked it free.

Had I put both anchors out front at the beggining of the blow I do not think we would have drug....

In fact the next night we stopped in a fairly open roadsted anchorage with alot of liveaboards in it, and put two out off the front, the wind was forecast to veer from west to North west.....around midnight. I stayed up....the wind shift violently came at 11....and I tried everything. I put more rode out, took rode in, but the riding sail up, took it down....pushed the boom over, pushed it back over off the other side, put the riding sail back up.....I mean I did EVERYTHING I could think of.....we werent sailing bad, and in fact there were two other boats in the line we were in that were sailing MUCH worse than we were. Finally at 1:30 I decided that I had literally done EVERYTHING I could....and I went to bed. Very rolly night on its own...but with the visions of dragging I didnt sleep good at all. I did make sure there was nothing expensive downwind.

When we got up the next am....we hadent moved.

Actually I wrote a post for sailfar while I was doing all of that....I have it saved I'll post it.

Also if any moderator thinks that this particular section of the trip log would be a good standalone topic for the masses, feel free to split it off.


Hmmm....there is a 32# delta on craigslist..... :-\

[JWalker]

I was able to hook into a wifi connection....all the dramatic details are in a writeup on the blog in the sig tag.

I don't know if I should post the text here, just because it is quite lengthy.  ::)

[boblamb]

Good tactic " I made sure there was nothing expensive downwind" ;D

[Captain Smollett]

Swinging on one anchor....is this safe in a current shifting area? I see a number of boats doing it.....but I'm already loosing sleep! (no I would not just swing on the fortress.

Hmmm...thinking about the rest, but for now, I wanted to comment on this one bit.

Swinging on one anchor safe?

Depends.  On a lot of things.

It DOES depend what kind of anchor it is....coupled very strongly to the bottom.

With the wind and current shifts you are expecting, two just seems like better "insurance" to me.  Not saying one won't do the trick, but...

What is your peace of mind (and good night's sleep) worth?  Are they worth the little bit of extra work to laying a second anchor?

Listen to your gut, your instincts.  If it does not "feel" right to you lay only one anchor, don't do it.  It does not matter if one could hold just fine...YOU have doubts, and you are the skipper of your boat.

A big part of seamanship is, in my opinion, exercising the caution that your gut tells you to exercise, no matter what everyone else is doing.

[JWalker]

I agree Capt Smollett, I don't think I like the idea....that whole anchor resetting thing with current.

The winds are slackening off, Morgan and I are going to move farther out in the anchorage where we are (deeper)
and rest another day. We will probly try to move to buttonwood tomorrow and hopefully stay there for a while.

[CharlieJ]

Thanks for the replys!

We headed out of clearwater yesterday and across tampa bay, we are now in bradenton beach and I think tomorrow we will move to the buttonwood anchorage...it looks well protected and there is a dingy dock.

Bradenton Beach also has a dinghy dock, Ice a block away, and free trolley service to use for groceries. Also has a really neat restaurant about 4 blocks north of the dock. Run by a Greek couple, called "the Gathering Place" One of my favorite stops.

[CharlieJ]

I have a friend who says-"the anchor weight to use is five pounds lighter than you can lift"

Personally, I think that  Delta is much too light,  by at least half.  And I don't care much for the Fortress either.

As to the sailing at anchor- Tehani commonly hunts through around 75 degrees in stronger winds, and will DEFINITELY lay to the current rather than the wind- fact of life for her.

I've used that 22 pound Claw (Bruce style) for all of the anchoring on Tehani ever since the boat was launched. It's held through some pretty horrendous stuff, and I'd trust it anywhere on our eastern seaboard, except in grass, which is why I carried the Northill. But in two and a half year and right at 7000 miles we only had one place where it flat would not set. That was off Frazer-Hog Key in the Berry Island group, Bahamas. That was because the bottom was so scoured that it was like a cement floor. We picked up a mooring.

[CharlieJ]

Oh- and somewhere in this thread the question was mentioned - "how do you sleep when all this is going on?"

Answer is- I don't. I've sat up all night, or sat dozing, and watching land marks, all night long on more than one occasion- Part of the long term cruising lifestyle.

[JWalker]

the delta I got more as a lunch hook, the fortress was my plan for primary.

Not happy with it.

I do have a 20# fluke with slip ring on board.....maybe I should switch the fortress off for that one.



Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.

[Captain Smollett]

Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.

With two crew aboard, an anchor watch (taking turns sleeping) can get you SOME sleep.

The key is to know things are being watched so you get some rest.

[CharlieJ]

I do have a 20# fluke with slip ring on board.....maybe I should switch the fortress off for that one.



Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.

If it were me, I'd take that slip ring anchor and throw it overboard!!! Hate them- I've had them reverse and pull out , on a fishing boat. If I was forced to use one, I'd wire the slip ring to the top, so it could not slide.

Another thing I hate  is that vinyl coated chain. I've seen that stuff so corroded you could pull it apart by hand, yet it looked perfect from the outside.

And I haven't sat  up all that often- I figure to anchor for storm, when I first set the hook. NOT at 0200. So I lean towards heavier ground tackle and good stout chain. I never use less than a boat length  of that, and I'd be happier with 100 feet rather than the 75 I have.

One point not mentioned is carrying different types of anchors- Danforths are wonderful,but not always the thing. When I cruised my Cross 35 tri, I had two- both with 50 feet of chain. My primary anchor was a 35 pound CQR and 150 feet of chain. Have had places where the plow wouldn't set, but the Danforths would.

Both had nylon at the end of the chain of course ;D

[okawbow]

This spring and summer my wife and I cruised 3500 miles in our Cheoy Lee 31 Ketch. We used a $100.00 33#Lewmar Claw anchor with 35' of 3/8" chain as primary anchor. This anchor always set with little trouble, and held in wind and current changes, even though our boat was very bad about swinging at anchor. For the money; I don't think the claw can be beat. However, you had better be in good shape to lift that much anchor and chain in deep water, with out a winch. We normally had to "break out" the anchor using power.

[JWalker]

Do you guys reset your anchor every day? Or just if the forecast says there will be a windshift....

For instance, if I go into an anchorage with the intent of staying a week.....

I put out two bow anchors 45-60 degrees apart....so I can swing with a reversing current, and have two anchors into the wind....Do I need to check each day to make sure  that holds true...and if a wind shift is predicted do I put the anchors and reset?

shed some light on the procedures you use.

[CharlieJ]

Flake out chain along the starboard deck, laying out as much as I think I'll need, plus a bit, Take a look over the anchorage, work the boat  in to where I want it, slow, put the boat into reverse (bringing the dingy painter in first), drop the anchor and let it sit as I slowly pay out chain, lightly snubbing as the boat begins to move astern.

When most  of the rode has run, I snub hard, then release the rest, head aft and throttle up hard, watching some point ashore to see if the sternway  stops.

Take it out of gear and clear up stuff in the cockpit, like doing the log, putting away GPS, etc. After that, I go forward, put on the snubber and settle in. If I feel it needed, I run out bit of rode, before adding the snubber.

Then I open a beer  ;)

Usually I only set the primary. It's rare when I set a second anchor.

And if I've been anchored for a day, no I usually don't do anything else.

[Captain Smollett]

Do you guys reset your anchor every day? Or just if the forecast says there will be a windshift....

For instance, if I go into an anchorage with the intent of staying a week.....

I put out two bow anchors 45-60 degrees apart....so I can swing with a reversing current, and have two anchors into the wind....Do I need to check each day to make sure  that holds true...and if a wind shift is predicted do I put the anchors and reset?

shed some light on the procedures you use.

Generally I don't reset 'em unless I have a really good reason to.  What kinds of winds in this windshift are we talking about?

I've kept my boat on two anchors for 18 months, in tidal waters with some big winds; the Bahamian Moor and its cousins are useful for this sort of thing.

I've laid to anchor for a week on one anchor...again in tidal waters (currents around 3 knots switching direction four times per day)...and that in a spot where one guy dinghied over to tell me "don't lie to one anchor here, it will never hold."  Go figure.  When I saw him pull in his hooks, I saw why he needed two...a 30 ft boat with two 13 lb Danforths.

Of course, with one hook out, I did not reset and just let her swing to the tides.

I've lain on both one hook and two for multiple days.  The decision on which to do for me has always been equal part analysis (bottom, swing room, protection, etc) and gut based 'guess.'  If in doubt, I lay two.

On two, with both the "V off the bow" and the Bahamian Moor, I've never reset my anchor(s) due to wind shift but would if the situation warranted it.

So, at the risk of again sounding trite, I have to say it depends.

In the situation you describe, and assuming "big winds," I'd lay two from the outset and likely in the Bahamian Moor configuration.  It's a pretty good system and it's worked for me so I have faith in it.

There are two ways to lay this "mooring," depending on what gear you have and how long you are staying put.  The first is 'easier' and the second is the more permanent.

(1) Lay the first and back down on the rode, then lay the second as you would for bow-stern anchoring, but lead the rode to the bow and TIE IT (with a rolling hitch, for example) to the first.  Then, let the first rode out until the knot is well below the keel and preferably on the bottom.

(2) The two anchors are connected by a length of chain (there are rules of thumb formula for figuring the lengths...I got mine from Hiscock) with a swivel in the middle.  Connect two "mooring lines" to the swivel.  Lay and set the first anchor, back off letting out the chain and drop the second hook when you get to the end of the chain.  Using the mooring lines (or a longer dock line attached to the swivel for this purpose), pull the boat back to the middle and pull the swivel all the way up to the boat.

Pulling the chain from the middle like this sets the second hook and with the two anchors digging in opposed to each other.

Secure the mooring lines to the bow and violins, you are "moored."

By either method, you essentially have:

<--------------------Boat--------------->

Where < and > are the anchors, and all rode essentially lead to the bow.  The boat is free to swing to the wind, current and waves as she wants but really cannot go anywhere (her actual swing circle is boat length + mooring line length, which need be only little more than the depth of the water).

If I were staying in an anchorage for a week (or heck, even less) and expects "big" conditions that were changing frequently, this is what I'd do.  This is what I've done.

You asked earlier (in this thread or the other one) about the two rodes getting tangled.  There's a solution for that, and it's simple.

Do NOT simply lead the rodes to the foredeck and cleat them off.

Rather, ALWAYS tie the secondary to the primary (rolling hitch works great if line, a swivel or shackle if chain...and you can rolling hitch line to chain with success) and pay out the primary until the connection point is below the keel (prevents wraps) and even deeper.  Doing this helps with the tangle, since the boat is mostly swinging on the primary.

Hope that helps clarify my overall strategies.  18 months at anchor in tidal waters and Hurricane Irene have been my two BIG test cases...multi-day anchorings in a single spot act as added data points.

[JWalker]

Great replies.

I'm just meaning the normal changing conditions....

what we had was defiantly a rather large blow, and like I said we had checked the forecast 1 hour before they issued a warning about it, and it hit us about an hour after they issued the warning. Had we seen the warning I would have changed the anchors, and there is a good chance we would not have drug.

But my question is in regards to general anchoring.

when you tie off the secondary to the primary, in my case I would use a rolling hitch....
what do you do with the remainder of the rode?

[Captain Smollett]

Great replies.

I'm just meaning the normal changing conditions....

what we had was defiantly I rather large blow, and like I said we had checked the forecast 1 hour before they issued a warning about it, and it hit us about an hour after they issued the warning. Had we seen the warning I would have changed the anchors, and there is a good chance we would not have drug.

But my question is in regards to general anchoring.

when you tie off the secondary to the primary, in my case I would use a rolling hitch....
what do you do with the remainder of the rode?

Well, in "normal" conditions, I usually only set one anchor.   ;)

The remainder of the rode comes to the foredeck to be cleated off, so there may be some twisting, but since they are connected at the hitch, they sort of twist together.  I've not found it to be too bad.  At least I've not found it to be the inconvenience some people make it out to be.

A big part of my piece of mind is the oversized Manson Supreme I use as my primary.  I completely trust it to not unset, or if it does to reset, in a change of pull direction.  This is based on both my experience and the comments of others.

The "new generation" anchors are kind of remarkable this way, and as such, are WELL worth the money.

I also trust my 32 lb S-L Claw, but must confess that I've never used it solo.  It formed the 'primary' of my 18 month mooring system, though.

I've drug anchor more times than i want to count.  Each and every one were "operator error," even if the error was the choice of the anchor.  With the exception of the secondary claw in Irene, each and every time I drug (both boats) was with a flat fluke anchor of the general "Danforth" design or the slip ring Hooker.

I've never drug with the Manson, and while the Claw drug a little in Hurricane Irene, it was clearly my fault.  The Manson did not drag in Irene, by the way.  If I remember correctly (and I hope he chimes in here), Craig road out Hurricane Noel in the Bahamas lying to ONLY his Manson.

I don't want to start an 'anchor war' and as we all know, anchoring threads can get 'heated.'  But I do want to say that the first step is choosing good equipment which means at the very least, for a cruising boat anchoring in all kinds of conditions, over sized.

As a secondary step, I find myself wanting to say negative things about a Danforth or flat fluke style as a primary, simply because pulling out on a direction change and 'failure to set' in that condition is too great a price for ME to pay....cruising boats face changing conditions regularly...not the exception...we need anchors that stay set.  Period.

[JWalker]

Well unfortunately we won't get to fix the anchoring issue at the moment.

We have a rental house.

Morgan and I saved up the amount we thought would be a reasonable winter budget.

Two weeks before we left on Nov 1st, the Prop Managment company called and there was an electrical problem.

$1300 out of cruising kitty.

Thats ok, we clear a little off the rent so we can still do it...lets go!

Off we went.....and the renters didnt pay November, so we covered the mortgage....They have missed before and caught up.

December came.....We covered another mortgage, and called prop management company (who have really dropped the ball) and told them if they didnt pay to send an eviction notice.

We pressed on truly believing that they would pay.

Last week we found out that not only didnt they send the eviction notice when we told them, but when they did finaly send it they got it back in the main with a notice of undeliverable. So they told us that they were going to go out and put an eviction notice on the door.

I called today and that still has not been done. (Why am I paying you people?)

The renters are now three months late, and honestly I don't believe they can come up with what they owe us.
We plan to put the house on the market when we get back, which means even if they did pay up we would just evict them in two months.

We are running low on funds having a few K taken out of our kitty, and since we have to be back in two months it makes sense to morgan and I to head back now and bring in some income till we get this cleared.

In once sense its a bit of a blow because we have *just* gotten south to the beaches palm trees and little villages that we wanted to play in....however we have learned SO MUCH about ourselves and what cruising means to us that we are good with it.

We have enjoyed the journey, we have enjoyed the cruise, we have enjoyed the people, the cold days sucked.

We will cruise more. We will cruise farther. We will cruise where it is warmer. With a BIG ANCHOR THAT WILL RESET. and a big friend to go with it.

Our post is not over, we have many thoughts to share, and once we get settled I will share them.

One thing I can say, is if you have the dream to go.....dont make a big fuss over it....just go....for however long you can, be it a week, a month, three months, a year, a decade, a lifetime, just go.

It doesnt have to happen all at once.  ;)

[JWalker]

Drawbridge Saluting us!