Dream Boat

[Cruise]

 Okay y'all, I know this is sort of a silly topic, but it's winter time, so what the heck.
If you were to win the lottery and could buy any boat you wanted, what would it be?
I love my old Allied Seawind.  She is the boat of my dreams (that is in the realistic realm of my budget) and is outstandingly equipped, but I do have a boat that I dream about. That boat is a 32' Pacific Seacraft Pilothouse. I would have her modified so as to have tiller steering in the cockpit, however.
I'd love to hear y'all's ideas and am curious as to how many of y'all would go big.
            Keith

[s/v Faith]

A 1964 Pearson Ariel.

 She would be 'Flag Blue' and her brightwork would be nearly perfect.  Her paint would be smooth and fair, she would have a stout (overbuilt) anchor roller mounted on the bow, a roller furler....  Lots of 5/16" chain, and of course a Manson Supreme anchor.  ;D

She would have a heavy stern pulpit, with places for a solar panel and the dingy motor.  Self Steering (Pacific Lite) and would probably have an outboard in a well (most likely a Yamaha 6hp 2stroke).

She would be rigged with a heavy full battten main (loose foot) and a 155 genoa on the furler.

Her rig would be stock, and round-the-world heavy.  Her electronics would be simple, basic plotter, few lights, simple solar with adequite house bank.  She would carry a small generator for when the sun did not shine (or for email).  Electric would be simple, with an Engle, LEDs, a NON-DSC VHF, and a basic plotter....

The Dodger would he heavy, and well made.  The Bimini would tame the summer sun and make life in the cockpit much nicer year round.

She would carry a lot of stows, at least 40 Gallons of water, and up to 28 gallons of fuel. (with more in cans on deck as needed)  Lots and lots of spares (plenty to help folks in need) and room to sleep comfortably.

Stores would fit here and there but she would carry plenty to cross any ocean, stowage arranged so that everything has it's place and can be found.

She has to be able to sail in light winds, or a full out gale.  I want to sail huge seas in comfort and still sail well in light airs....


.... oh, and Make her the most beautiful boat in any anchorage I enter.....




Oh, wait... I just described  my own ship!  :o

(see my signature)

[Cruise]

 Nice Faith! I could tell where you were going before I finished reading your post. Your pride in her emanates.
Don't get me wrong either. I love my little ship. I've had her for 6 months now and am really getting her to my liking. I can't wait till I finish the brightwork.
I also have an Engel, and boy is it nice. I also have an Adler Barbour Cold Machine, an Aries windvane, a manual windlass, and 'Saga' is also the prettiest boat in the anchorage.
A man still has dreams, though.
      Grog to your lovely vessel.

[Captain Smollett]

I'd love to hear y'all's ideas and am curious as to how many of y'all would go big.
           

Hi Kieth,

It's not so silly a topic, but one we have batted around here from time to time.

Among the 'small boat' crowd (across the board, not just here on sailfar), there seems to be two very distinct groups.  The first is the group that would have bigger, 'better appointed' boats "if they could" for whatever reason...the reasons they 'settle' for smaller could be storage space, lack of 'big water' nearby, money, etc.

The second group WANTS the smaller, less encumbered vessel.  Lin and Larry Pardey, for example, could have any boat they wish.  No doubt, some big boat designer/producer would 'offer' for them just for the bragging rights of having designed or built their boat.  But, they stick with their under 30 LOD boat.  Why is that?

I have no desire for a bigger boat...oh yes, there are 'dark moments' where I think "more" would be better.  In those times, I only have to think of the costs, spiritual moreso than financial, to get my mind back where it needs to be.

A man still has dreams, though.

What I find funny is that your 'dream' boat is still not that big, and a DARN GOOD BOAT (tm) to boot.

On the idea of 'dreams,' though, I'll reiterate something I've said here often and in person to other boaters.

No, there is nothing "wrong" with having dreams; there is likewise nothing "wrong" with having a 50 foot boat, if that's what you want and can afford, etc, yada yada.  The problems arise from the hidden costs...again, spiritual costs that are swept under the rug by the 'marketeers.'

I've met on the docks numerous people that were NOT enjoying their lifestyle of living aboard an cruising.  All they did was complain.  As an outside observer of these complaints, I have noticed common threads - they were complaining about NOT having the 'freedom' they THOUGHT living aboard or cruising would bring.

Their stories of the places they have visited were ones of "it was beautiful, but we did not get to stay long enough" and tales of continuous work (on the boat) and broken stuff.  There was NEVER enough money, no matter the boat size, life stage or income level ...

There was never enough!

(Cue jokes about 2 foot itis...)

There was some inside expectation that prevented fundamental satisfaction (see Craig's signature   ;)  )...and that is the psychology the marketeers tweak to sell their products - gadgets, boats, safety gear, etc.

It's been said many times by people with far more wisdom than I...."The best boat is the ONE YOU HAVE.  Go Now."

[Captain Smollett]

Sorry, another thought that's related.

Another thing that rankles me is the 'sold notion' that bigger = safer or bigger = more comfortable.

Another 'complaint' I've heard relates to the comfort 'at sea' in a seaway or bad weather.  I've heard people gripe about the seas and weather when they were out there in their CSR 2.1 and MCR 1.15 boats, JUST because they were 'popular' hulls in the sailing rags.

Example: I encountered in an anchorage a "full time cruiser" who regaled my wife with horror stories of sailing on the Caribbean Sea (which admittedly can get rough...but we saw similar wave heights the day before with our Alberg 30).  His boat, a VERY popular and 'well sung' model (** see below), has abysmal static design numbers for sailing offshore, yet the 'myth' persists that it's a "good blue water boat."    

Couple this with 'lack of seatime,' and it's a recipe for disappointment and 'lost dreams,' at least in my observation.  

It's an endless cycle that seems to go something like this:

Step 1: Couple has a dream to cruise
Step 2: Couple reads sailing magazines, visits web sites
Step 3: "Conventional Wisdom" suggests Whizbang 45 is the 'best boat'
Step 4: Couple shops for a boat, finds one "cruise ready"
Step 5: Couple heads "out"
Step 6: Couple arrives back in port totally disillusioned and ready to sell..*IF* they admit 'defeat.'

(Lots of boats go on the market after one crossing!)

Step 7: Couple becomes convinced the problem was really with the Whizbang 45, and a 47, 50 or whatever "would be better.'  The rags sell this psychology HARD.

Return to Step 4, and repeat 4-7 til they die or just give up.

There's a step 3a, I guess...Couple does not research boats at all and just buys one...great for gaining experience and time on the water, but boats are trade-offs and *I* happen to think that it's important to understand the trade-offs of whatever boat one finds as "yours."

To me, the REAL problem exists at my Step 2 above, or maybe Step 3.  The "Conventional Wisdom" is often NOT based on seatime aboard ANY particular boat.  The "Conventional Wisdom" is all-too-often simply a repeat of ADS from MAGAZINES!  Argh.

( ** )  That model boat, a 30 footer, is an EXCELLENT boat for life at the dock, daysailing and motoring from marina to marina.  It's got a large cockpit, very large interior volume for a 30 footer and lots of 'open space' below.

Trade-offs....

[Cruise]

Hey John,
I agree with your last post completely. I've lived on boats for most of my adult life, and I have seen what you mention time and time again. Also, when buying a sailboat, it is all about trade-offs.
When I bought my current boat last June, I was working with a budget of an absolute maximum of $10K. That amount would be either for a boat ready to move aboard and cruise with, or one for less money that I could make cruise ready while living aboard- therefore ruling out major projects such as re=building the interior.
I feel that I got blessed with the boat I ended up with. She is such a sturdy, capable, and very well equipped, and I moved aboard her the day that I bought her. After having this boat for six months, I truly feel that I got twice the boat that my budget should have afforded me.
I mentioned dream boats because as much as I love my boat, if I had a bigger budget, I would have gotten a different boat. That said, I was not about  to delay buying a good boat so as to work and save money for the hope of something more.
Living aboard year-round and sailing in all four seasons has really put the idea of a pilothouse into my head. Not just for the cold, but for protection from the sun that beat down on my redheaded self this summer in North Carolina. Some  pilothouses that may someday be realistically within my means are the Rawlings 30 and Gulf 29  or 32. I'd really have to check more into them to know for sure.
Still, the Pacific Seacraft 32 Pilothouse just does something to me when I see one. I do not feel the same way about their 40' Pilothouse, though. I don't want to go too big, and I love being able to get under 45' bridges.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
I could not help but notice that in your above post, you came close, but never named the manufacturer of the 30 footer.
Can Anyone Take A Leap In Naming Above  ??? 

[Tim]

Grog you for that one Cruise  ;D

[oded kishony]

enjoying this thread.....

"Can Anyone Take A Leap In Naming Above"

Catalina 30?

Oded   

[Bubba the Pirate]

I have no regrets for the boat I chose.  Though there are moments of frustration.  I had less money than it felt like I had, the boat (of course) needed more work than I thought (or was told).  I'm not sailing yet (dammit). 

BUT  I am way closer to sailing than I would have been otherwise and I am working toward the goal of life aboard every day.  When I get there, I will have no debt and a very well found ship that is not just mine in some economic sense but completely mine in terms of intimacy and history - nearly my longest, most stable relationship.  I probably don't have the discipline to have lived one life and saved up to buy a boat for a different life. Life has a way of interfering with nebulous plans. I bought the boat I could afford.  I knew it was going to take serious work and some time; that it is.  I jumped in with both feet.


That said, I do like cutters and ketches; I have a sloop.  Beyond that, I wanted/want a boat I can easily single hand with a diesel auxiliary, a full keel, keel attached rudder and heavy displacement.  I have all that in my Cape Dory 28, but I still peruse yacht world/boat trader/craigs list - like a watching any other football game when my team is not playing.

Todd

[s/v necessity]

"Can Anyone Take A Leap In Naming Above"

I would think just about any fin keel boat with a lot of beam would fit right in with his discussion.  Too many to choose from... 

When we were shopping for boats we had a salesperson *insist* that the old full keel boats we were looking at were utter rubbish and non-sense.  He tried really hard to put us into an Oday.  Granted if we had listened to him we might be out cruising right now ;)  Good lord that boat was roomy for a 28' boat.  It would have made an amazing dockside apartment!  On the other hand I remember looking at the keel and doubting it's ability to take a solid hit.

I had a good friend (recently passed away) who upon finishing a delivery of an "modern" hull shape 27' boat, though a bad storm off the pacific coast,  claimed that any doubt was totally removed.  He was sold on the more traditional hull shape *for smaller boats*.

[ntica]

I have my dream partner allready "Celeste" ;)

[Captain Smollett]

I could not help but notice that in your above post, you came close, but never named the manufacturer of the 30 footer.
Can Anyone Take A Leap In Naming Above  ???  

;D ;D ;D

When we were shopping for boats we had a salesperson *insist* that the old full keel boats we were looking at were utter rubbish and non-sense.

I think I would have walked away at that instant.  ALL boats have pros and cons and anyone trying to sell me a boat making such claim disrespects me as a potential customer, and certainly disrespects the "product" he is selling.

Wow.

I had a good friend (recently passed away) who upon finishing a delivery of an "modern" hull shape 27' boat, though a bad storm off the pacific coast,  claimed that any doubt was totally removed.  He was sold on the more traditional hull shape *for smaller boats*.

Grog for your friend; we will raise a glass to another sailor taking 'the long journey.'

It seems the margins defining 'acceptable' shape become more stringent with smaller boats; if you make the boat big enough and heavy enough, the "slop" in shape is less of a factor.

After all, a guy did once SAIL a triangular shaped oil rig across the ocean; it was about the most 'unseaworthy' looking thing you could imagine, but they fixed three masts with sails (a mast at each corner) and away she went.

The purpose was to simply reduce load (and fuel consumption) for the tugs towing her out, but, for much of the trip, they were reading essentially "0" on the strain gages on the tow lines.  She was sailing under her own power!

On our end of the extreme, I think the hull shape plays a MUCH bigger role, and the allowable 'tolerances' relating to stability and comfort are much tighter.

Looking at static design numbers (and accepting all the caveats that go with that), it does take about 45 feet or so for the "modern" shape to come into its own stability wise.

Trade-offs: you want flat bottom, wide astern, high freeboard and "living space creature comfort," you really do "need" 40+ feet to accomplish it 'safely.'

The rags are not ALL wrong in their claims (forty footer now called day sailers?  wow), but they don't often tell the whole story....that is, the down sides of bigger and the up sides of smaller .... and if you CHOOSE smaller, how to accomplish THAT safely.

That, of course, is the what SailFar.net is for.   ;D ;D  (and others...)

[Bonzai]

I, too, have been torn about which type (hull design) boat is seaworthy. All the newer production boats seem to be for wannabe racers instead of designed for actual day to day use. I own 3 boats, 2 trailerable, and all have been dismissed as faulty by those brainwashed by modern hawkers.I just had a wannabe sailor dis one of them when I offered it for sale to him. Said these boats didn't "suit his eye"...lol. Whatever the heck that means. I have sailed this particular boat for years ,and in the roughest of wind and wave conditions, and can find only 1 bad thing about it....it has a stern mounted outboard motor which presents problems in certain sea states no matter what brand of boat u attach them to. So....before you poo poo another man's boat.....be sure you actually know something about it.I have always been a quiet reader here and have gained alot of useful info from the very knowledgeable sailors here, and hate to see this forum become brand or cost specific when these factors have very little to do with a boats' true abilities in most cases. I say go for a long or full keel every time. Design fuctionability is much more important than who designed the name tags for a boat.Had to vent.

[Chattcatdaddy]

I just had a wannabe sailor dis one of them when I offered it for sale to him. Said these boats didn't "suit his eye"...lol. Whatever the heck that means.

I guess this is directed at me..lol ??? Anyway no disrespect intended at your lancer 25 as I`m sure it is a fine boat. Just not on my "dream boat" list.

[Cruise]

  I started this topic so as to hear other people's ideas. My idea of a dream boat is MY dream boat. I was just curious as to other people's ideas. Maybe I'd learn something. Shoot, I never knew of Allied Seawinds until I bought mine, and she is the exact type of boat that I love.
 I didn't want to offend anyone because my dream boat is not the same as theirs, but if I did, the offended person should lighten up.
 Our whole world is entrenched in rivalries; Fords vs. Chevys, Harleys vs. rice burners, BMWs vs. Mercedes. Even our sailing community is in the mix with; monohulls vs. multihulls, cruisers vs. racers, and of course blowboaters vs. stinkpotters.
 It's all in good fun. When it comes right down to it, blowboaters and stinkpotters stick together when it comes to boater's rights.
 All I'm trying to say is that we are all mariners and watermen. A little friendly rivalry is not a bad thing as far as I am concerned, especially if we keep it friendly and don't attack each other personally.
 I love my brother. The last boat he bought was a Hunter 380. It was the right boat for him and his wife, but I never quit telling him how much more seaworthy and seakindly my little boat is. He never quits telling me how much faster and more comfortable his boat is.
 Bottom line: Grog to all mariners.....blowboaters and stinkpotters alike.

[Chattcatdaddy]

Well said Cruise! A grog for that!

[tomwatt]

 It's all in good fun. When it comes right down to it...
 Bottom line: Grog to all mariners.....blowboaters and stinkpotters alike.

Well said.
Grog fer that!

[Sunset]

Island packet 31,but I haven't won the lottery so I am in the construction of a 28 foot cat ketch designed by B&B yacht designs. The design is not completed as of yet but is far enough along I could get started. She displaces 7900# with nearly 28 feet of water line. Large cabin with a small cockpit and has a 9'9" beam with 4 foot draft. Graham designed her with 6'1" headroom. Fixed keel with a tiller, walkout transom with a door for easy access to the water and dink. I have a like new Beta 20 that's going in for the fossil fuel power. She will be rigged with wishbones with lazy jacks. She carries about 530 feet of sail excluding a staysail. The masts will be in tabernacles for easier access to the lights and rigging repair.
She is strip build with cypress overlaid with bi axle cloth and epoxy inside and out. Graham is known as the apostle of speed in his designs, but I asked him to lay his racing hat down for a bit and design me a comfortable 28 foot cruiser. Its been nearly two years since I first talked to him about designing a cruiser for me. I am just now setting the frames this week. No fault of his I kept changing the boat length on him. First it was 32' then we went down to a 25 then to a 26 and findly settled in at 28.

Scott

[John Bailey]

This is an easy one for me because I spent a lot of time with a drawing board drawing up my dream boat.

It would be a Gartside 26 ft. gaff rigged topsail cutter.  That's what I started with and then I drew in some modifications.  I sent them to Mr. Gartside and got his approval.

I can't imagine a boat better suited for me or a prettier boat.

Alas, the cost of building and maintaining a wooden vessel such as this puts it, definitely, in the "dream" category for me.

John

[Greene]

Well Brenda and I are just starting the search for our dream boat.  We hope to be on the water in the Gulf coast area within two years.  We started our short list with some pretty basic requirements. Primarily a 24' to 31' length, full or modified full keel and headroom for a 6' 3" guy.  We soon reduced the headroom to 6' 1" to widen our selection.  Budget of about $50K, so our dream boat will need to be 10 - 20 years old.  We listed several on our blog recently including the Dana 24, PS 27, Island Packet 27/29, etc. 

So, dream boats can be smallish and well under "Lottery Winnings" in price.  OK, if we did have silly money, a PS 34 maybe.

Mike and Brenda