The black magic of anchoring in adverse wind and current

[JWalker]

ok, so I'm anchored in a small bay on the icw, just north of St. Johns.

The current is going north.....so my boat, and all the ones around me in the anchorage that I can see in the dark have their bows pointed mostly south, maybe a little south west.

The wind is strait out of the west at 10 knots, and forecast to shift to north west after midnight and increase to 20 knots.

The wind is coming strait on the beam of the boat, which is ok I guess....but the waves coming across the bay are also coming beam on. AND the angle of the wind is making the mast pump.

Ugh.

I set two anchors out about 45 from each other, and also if the wind kicked up we would have two out off the bow. The south anchor is a 14 lb delta on 25 feet of chain and 3/8? line, the north anchor is a fortress fx11 on 50 feet of chain and 1/2? line. We are anchored in 7 feet at low tide.

I thought about tyeing a dock line to the south anchor rode that we are riding on, with a rolling hitch, and leading it back to the stern in an attempt to pull the boats nose into the wind....but with the wind shift coming, and a tide shift coming at 2 am, I don't really know what would happen then.  (I ultimately did not do this)

Maybe we would shift around and ride to the north anchor, negating the rolling hitch bridle. But with a little more wind AND a slack tide, I'm not sure what the effect would be.

If I threw a stern anchor out to straiten the boat, then when the wind change comes I'll be at an odd angle then.

So I decided to put the riding sail up, thinking that the wind blowing across the stern would push it in line and keep us from anchor sailing to much, although I do wonder if it is to big for 20 knots of wind, but I want to see what happens. Nothing happens!!! I set it loose, nothing, I set it flat, nothing. Still riding in the same position.

So I go to see what kind of pressure is on the anchors.....Hardly any. I pulled on the rodes and bring the boat forward a little bit and then dropped the rodes. It took over a minute to get the slack out of the rode. In other words, the boat isnt moving much.

11:00 Wind shift comes, after the initial strong winds that signal any wind shift, the boat, and all the others that I can see are now lying mostly west, and the wind is north west....so still angled off. MUCH better in terms of wave action though. They are coming on the bows quarter instead of the sterns quarter.

High tide is around 2 am, so I think after that we will lie more with the wind, and then as the current picks up we may zing around 30-45 degrees off the other side.



What say yee gentlemen about this dark mystery?

Are we cursed to lie to the current and not the waves?

Or is there something else that may be done?  8)

[Captain Smollett]

It is certainly reasonable to lie to two anchors with a bridle led the quarter as you describe.  As you point out, it may require 'constant' tending, however.

I must confess that in the Alberg 30, I don't experience the 'hunting' that you describe.  She lies to her anchor(s) very quietly most of the time.  Rolls like crazy and heels over quite nicely in 50 knots, but does not really sail around.

My little trailer boat, however, sails around like a beast at anchor if there is ANY wind at all...so far, I've just let her go and have not had issue with it, with two caveats.  First, we've always had the fortune to have that boat anchored in well protected anchorage and second...a VERY LARGE anchor for that boat.

The boat is only 1350 lb dry weight, yet I anchor with an 8 lb Danforth, 15 ft of chain and 150 ft of nylon. I'm ALWAYS quite liberal with my scope (why I abhor 'crowded' anchorages).  This anchor is way overkill for the boat...so, the anchor can withstand a fair amount of mischief by the boat as she 'hunts.'

The flat fluke anchors like the Danforth style have the reputation of notoriously pulling out on a shift (current or wind) and not resetting properly.  Others will have to speak if that extends to the Fortress as well.

Sorry, I don't know...just a gut thing, but that Delta seems a bit small for what I'd think of as a "storm anchor" on a 24 ft cruising boat.

Whatever anchor style you choose, for cruising, always go up a size (at least)...get the biggest anchor you can lift/handle.  This is not the place to bargain shop, yada yada yada, all been said before.

[gpdno]

You might try springing the rode.  Basically you use a second line with one end tied to your anchor rode and the other back to your winch.  You can then winch the line in so your bow is pointed into the wind while the current is abeam.  Works well and easy to set-up.

Check out this site for a better description.
http://www.tor.cc/articles/rode.htm

[Kettlewell]

In a situation like that, which is quite common on the ICW, I usually set a tight Bahamian moor, with one anchor in the middle of the channel facing one way and one anchor facing the other way, with both rodes led over the bow. When I say tight, I mean keeping the two lines quite tight so the boat doesn't sail around a lot. If on one anchor with strong wind against tide you can get some wild rides with the boat working its way up current until the wind eases a bit, and then blasting down current until you reach the end of the rode, sometimes whipping the bow around wildly in the process. The Bahamian moor solves the anchor pulling out problem, and keeps your boat from sailing off into the marsh, but it won't always keep you lying at the best angle to things. I have tried various techniques. One is to throw over something as a small drogue off the stern in order to hold your boat pointed into the current as much as possible. I have used a bucket or even a heavy canvas tote bag, and sometimes this does the trick. I wouldn't try sail in those conditions, because you might very well find yourself whipping around putting the sail in the wrong direction. Shallow draft boats can sometimes raise the centerboard and/or the rudder and lie more to the current and less to the wind. Sometimes you just have to put up with it until the tide turns.

[s/v Faith]

Last week anchored in Cockburn Harbour, South Caco I had a night where the boat was hovering over the anchor... The chain was streight down, stern to the wind and bow to the current.  I looked down from the bow and could see the anchor directly under the bow.

The next morning I got in the water and saw the chain had 3 large loops (had about 80' out)... Apparently three tide changes without enough wind to completely straighten the chain.

Not so weird until you realize the wind had blown 12-15k at times....

Current can do unexpected things.

[s/v Faith]

To answer the OP, I would add that I avoid 2 anchor mooring whenever I can.  The rode will often become tangled, and you are much more likely to have trouble with your neighbors...  Even if your boat and theirs are doing different things....

[Kettlewell]

I have used two-anchor sets hundreds of times, having done the ICW more than two dozen times. In a strong wind against tide situation in a crowded anchorage boats will move all over the place wildly without two anchors down, often resulting in violent collisions as I have seen in places like Beaufort, SC, and was recently reported in Bimini on another forum. In any case, you can logically see how a Bahamian moor in such a situation will dramatically reduce the amount of ground your boat can cover. Yes, it is true that if your neighbors are on one anchor you might have trouble with them, but to hope that everyone on single anchors will swing and sail the same with wind against current is foolish. The best situation is if everyone uses two anchors properly set. Sure the rodes may take a twist or two, but that can be undone in a few minutes if you keep the second anchor rode mostly rope and have it in a sail bag. Those that have problems with two-anchor sets aren't doing it right. Maybe you can find enough room where you sail so a single anchor works, but some of these ICW anchorages are 20 feet or more deep, but only 100 feet wide. It is very easy to end up in the marsh, even if you don't hit anyone else, if you hang on one hook.

[Captain Smollett]

some of these ICW anchorages are 20 feet or more deep, but only 100 feet wide. It is very easy to end up in the marsh, even if you don't hit anyone else, if you hang on one hook.

Another of the many sailfar, smaller boat advantages - more anchorage options.

I do not like the Beaufort Taylor Creek anchorage for exactly the reason you describe...it's long and narrow - and very crowded all year long (moreso during the spring and fall pilgrimage).  Town Creek, though perhaps less "convenient," is generally less crowded.

Even better is South River (across the Neuse from Oriental)...a 10-20 square miles of usable anchorage with a dozen or fewer boats.  South River does not provide access to the 'social life' Beaufort does, but oh well.

I guess my point is that there is more than one way to solve the "what other boats are doing" problem, but it hinges on a lot of factors.  For me, anchoring "out," avoiding other boats, works quite well.

In Charleston, we anchored on a single hook against the "advice" of a nearby boater.  When I saw his hooks after he pulled them up, I saw why he swore two anchors were necessary.  They were tiny, at least three sizes under what I would have chosen for his 30 footer. 

As Craig described, I have also been quite amazed at seeing the chain fall straight down while at anchor.  One time that comes to mind was once anchored at Awendaw Creek on the ICW (just south of McClellanville, SC) and were anchored several hours....when I pulled the anchor up, the chain was in a heap under the bow and the anchor was directly below us.  That area is not exactly known for no tidal current, and the wind was about 10 knots. 

[Kettlewell]

I have anchored in both Taylor Creek and Town Creek numerous times, and through some pretty big gales too. I go way down Taylor Creek and anchor along the edge of the channel on a very tight Bahamiam moor, where if you were on one anchor you simply couldn't anchor--you would either hit the docks on one side of the channel or the marsh on the other. Have done it dozens of times. Those who want to hang on one hook are pretty much out of luck in Beaufort, NC, unless they want to maintain an anchor watch most of the time. I have helped numerous boats there out of trouble that tried to hang on a single hook with the wind howling against the current, and soon regretted it.

[s/v Faith]

Sounds like "different ships, different long splices" to me.

I have anchored in Taylor creek, always on one anchor with no problems.

Just another example of what makes it so helpful to have these discussions...  Folks can listen to the reasons behind what others choose to do and try different things in the process of making up their mind about what works for them.

Peace and Fair Winds to all.

[Kettlewell]

Last time I was in Taylor Creek there were several boats there trying to hang on one hook, and there were several collisions. I had to move to avoid them. They were taking up way too much room too. Two anchors means you don't hog the available anchoring room. In the old days boats that swung into the channel would soon get a stern warning from the CG that came through every day to make sure the channel was clear for the huge Menhaden boats that came through regularly.

[Captain Smollett]

Last time I was in Taylor Creek there were several boats there trying to hang on one hook, and there were several collisions.

Honestly, I'd call that an "anchoring too close" problem, not a one hook vs two problem.

If you pull into an anchorage and everyone there is already on one hook...by FAR the norm in any NC/SC anchorage I've seen, including the bulk of boats in Beaufort on Taylor Creek generally over the last 4-5 years, lying to two AND being too close to other boats is going to be problematic.

It's the lying too close to other boats that causes collisions unless we are talking about dragging.

I had to move to avoid them.

Who was there first?  If they were, then you anchored within their swinging circle.  Not trying to pick on you - I was not there.  Just making a point.

If you were there first, they anchored too close to you.

They were taking up way too much room too.

Absolutely not an issue, technically speaking.  We are not allotted a certain slice of room in an anchorage.  We can talk about etiquette, but there is no "rule."

When I anchor, I will choose my ground tackle and rode amount according to what I think is safest for my boat.  I tend to be rather conservative.  Not everyone approaches it this way.

Two anchors means you don't hog the available anchoring room.

True, but mostly a non-issue because taking too much room in an anchorage is, in my observation, the least of the etiquette 'violations' we see other boaters do.  Undersized tackle and too little rode is, in my observation, a far more prevalent cause of anchoring problems.  I'd rather them swing to one hook and adequate rode with a good set than inadvertently encourage improper techniques (say with beginners) on the premise of "worry about how much room you are taking."

In the old days boats that swung into the channel would soon get a stern warning from the CG that came through every day to make sure the channel was clear for the huge Menhaden boats that came through regularly.

But again, that's an overall technique problem, not specifically a one hook or two hook problem. When laying an anchor, it is my responsibility to ensure I'm not blocking the navigable channel anywhere within my swinging circle.  If someone did not do that...one hook or two...they have impeded navigation.  The number of anchors is immaterial.

Back to Taylor Creek, and speaking specifically about the "anchorage area" near the town boardwalk:

I have been there plenty of times where every boat I could see was on one hook.  I've observed them through tide changes and saw the swing.  I don't think one can generalize it's always one way or another.  Or, that it should be.  Options are good, with the proviso that skippers make well informed, experience based decisions.

We have sat in a restaurant and watched a boat dance around its one hook like crazy, while the other 30 or so boats we could easily see laid quietly to the tidal flow on their one hook.  I was worried that one boat would cause a problem, but not problem materialized because all boats involved had wisely allowed adequate swinging room.

Please don't misunderstand, I happen to love the Bahamian Mooring technique and have used it often.  I am a proponent.  But the number of anchors and limiting swinging room are not the root causes of the problems you describe....they seem more indicative of an overall undisciplined technique to me.

[Kettlewell]

Bottom line is if everyone properly used a Bahamian moor in Taylor Creek, like they used to in the past, there would be more room for boats to anchor and those at anchor would ride more comfortably and be safer. I understand nobody wants to do it that way anymore for some reason, so I anchor elsewhere.

[marujo_sortudo]

Hmmm...I agree with Kettlewell 100% and Smollett almost as much.  I was just in Beaufort, SC and the anchorage was a potpourri of anchoring technique and spacing.  Fortunately, wind was light and the spacing was decent.  Naturally, I anchored at the far edge of the field between another boat that prefers Bahamian mooring and a permanent mooring.  We'll be in Taylor Creek some time this month when the weather cooperates, so maybe I'll have more to contribute to this thread then....

[Kettlewell]

The anchorage off of town in Beaufort, SC, can be just as bad as NC, though there is more room. I was there once when someone put their bowsprit right through the doghouse windows of another boat in a wind against current situation.

[CharlieJ]

I always just anchor in the creek south of town, dinghy in to the marina, and ride the bus across.

Pic at anchor, in creek, Beaufort, SC

[Kettlewell]

Do you mean Factory Creek, north of the swing bridge and near Ladies Island Marina? I lived there for several years--lovely spot.

[CharlieJ]

That's the place ;)

I have some good friends who live close by. Hoping to be there again late June, early July.

[Auspicious]

I wonder if some of the disuse of Bahamian moors is a result of improved anchor designs, especially for smaller boats. If all you have are fluke style anchors a Bahamian moor makes tremendous sense as the load on the anchors doesn't veer significantly.

As the current generation of concave "spoon" type anchors (Rocna, Spade, Raya, Mantus, &c) have appeared on more boats the owners have realized that a single hook works fine. Given the option of NOT having to deploy and retrieve a second anchor without a reduction in safety I'll go the easy way. *grin*

The only time I've used two anchors on Auspicious was specifically to stay out of a navigation channel, not for holding.

[Kettlewell]

Yes, improved anchor designs mean that the anchors usually don't trip out, giving many a false sense of security in some of these tide-swept anchorages. Their wonderful new anchors have held firm through violent wind shifts in places like the Chesapeake, so they drop one in Beaufort but what happens is the current gets them. The Bahamian moor is primarily an anchor set up to control your boat's position--not necessarily for holding. With a strong wind against a strong current many boats will swing wildly around their single anchor. I have been in a situation in a gale on a single hook in tremendous current down at Swansboro. I had tons of room and was hanging on a single CQR, but the current was exactly against the wind. In lulls the current would take over, but in the gusts the boat would gradually work its way up current the other way until a lull and then the current would send the boat wildly back down current. The boat was snapping around so violently at the end of the swing that it was like doing crack the whip ice skating, and we had to stay in our bunks to keep from getting thrown off our feet. If there had been another boat around I would have had to have used a Bahamian moor or else it would have been very dangerous. Also, sometimes you need a Bahamian moor just to limit your swinging radius so you don't swing into a channel, someone's dock, or a moored boat.