Porter's Boat Search

[Jeremy]

Jeremy- our 8 is exactly the same engine as the 6, with a different carb.. Same dimensions, and weight. 6 hp might be different now, but wasn't in 06.

Yup, they changed it.  The Yamaha 6 is now a one-cylinder and lacks the shift on the handle, which would have been very useful.  On the plus side, it's lighter, not picky about lying on three of its sides, and required no modifications. 

[Tim]

The problem with that is that the new 4 stroke engines do not fit in the old motor wells without modification to one or the other.

That may sometimes or even often be the case, Tim, but wasn't for me.  A 4-stroke 6-hp Yamaha fits without modification and plenty of room to spare in the well in my Meridian.  I know Tehani had the larger 2 cylinder 8HP Yamaha which may (or may not) have required modification.  I can't speak to Ariels or other vessels.  Certainly something to consider, though.

That's great to hear Jeremy, I had known that Charlie had to modify for his engine. In reworking my lazzarette and motor well I gained an inch or two in depth so I am hoping if I ever put a newer motor in it might fit. Currently I have a 2 stroke 7.5 Evinrude that should fit in there without a problem.

[Jim_ME]

I'm not so sure anymore that I want to go so far for a boat. And I still wonder about the quality of the restoration. It might be fine, but I haven't been able to figure out how to determine that for lack of a surveyor.

I can sure understand being reluctant to travel that far, after your experience in Nova Scotia.

I saw that this Ariel was described as in "awesome condition" and that it had a trailer (the partial view of it in the photo did not look that bad, although hardly conclusive), so I posted the ad for you.

Now considering that it has the old Atomic 4 inboard (as CJ says, probably not that desirable), the central heat & air (something you may neither need nor want) apparently occupying the icebox space. The cushions look overinflated and the mast support partners/beam, while possibly adequate, is not the most elegant joinerwork I've ever seen. It is natural to judge the other restoration quality that you cannot see from these items that you can, and they would cause me some doubt. Also suspect that If the restoration is not that great, than neither is the price.  

[Jim_ME]

After posting below those who have a cruiser and a smaller trailer-sailer, I've been thinking that I am half expecting that any day now Charlie will come get that free Meridian up here... since compared to how Tehani was found, the restoration is almost all done...

Tehani II...has a nice ring to it...  ;)

[Jim_ME]

Porter, For a boat in the Ariel size range this might be worth considering...[may have been a boat we saw an ad for earlier...?]

Maybe more than you planned to spend, but I've heard many good things about these CD25Ds. It's a relatively newer boat with small diesel, and the price seems considerably lower than you usually see for one of these...

SAILBOAT CAPE DORY 25D - $11500 (Chatham, MA)
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/2977104980.html

[CharlieJ]

Charlie already GOT a boat :D

No more rebuilds for me. Although there ARE a few modifications I have in mind for Necessity ;).

[Porter Wayfare]

Well guys,
The boat I saw today was in a bit worse shape than the two I saw yesterday, even though it was on the hard and not allowed to freeze into the Detroit River each year. I have very little experience identifying Ariels but I'm pretty sure this was one even though the builder's plaque didn't say "Ariel" like the two yesterday. It's not too clear, but it's #297.

There were a couple of holes in the deck where stanchions had pulled out. These three boats need help soon. I'm not sure I'm the guy to tackle any of them although they are beautiful and I can stand comfortably in them.

Onward,
Porter

[Jim_ME]

Charlie already GOT a boat :D

And she's a beauty. Nice photo.  :)

There were a couple of holes in the deck where stanchions had pulled out. These three boats need help soon. I'm not sure I'm the guy to tackle any of them although they are beautiful and I can stand comfortably in them.

The first reaction is... If it's mostly cosmetics, and you can do the work as you sail her, or spend more time on that before launching and maybe some after hauling out, that is one thing.

However, if the boat needs major work, that is a big commitment and one to consider carefully. Many attempt them, some finish and some do not. Some spend months or years and then, like the Meridian I recently posted here, the project is abandoned.

My own feeling is that when it is one's only boat, and you are putting off sailing while you work on it, and that stretches out, it can begin to feel like your sailing life is being held hostage to the project. At some point sailing deferred can become sailing denied...

I believe that you have to enjoy the process of working on (and the satisfaction of saving) the boat apart from the reward of sailing it when the restoration is done.

There was some great information or quotes about this--the Zen of working on boats--in a previous thread on this site, which you can search on to find.

I personally like the idea of having a smaller boat that one can sail, so that some sailing can be done while doing the other restoration work--maintaining a balance of recreation and work, near and long term. [John wrote about how he is doing this recently.] Your current daysailer may be enough, or you might want to pick up something like an inexpensive Typhoon size/type to daysail/overnight? In my own case, I imagine using such a boat as a trailer sailer while keeping a larger cruising boat on the mooring (or some years keeping on the hard for work/refit), and perhaps trailer sailing the small boat South in the winter to do some daysailing/overnighting and camping out in a coastal park/campground.

One of the biggest concerns that I would have in the older and neglected boats, is to check out the deck very thoroughly for delamination and rotted core. If there are holes from stanchions that got ripped off, that is a place for water to get into the core (as are cracks in the deck gelcoat, poorly bedded hardware, etc.) These problems may not necessarily make the project not worth doing, but determining the extent to which a problem like this can help make any commitment more informed and reasonable (you will better know what you are getting into). I think that there has to be a kind of emotional, psychological, and even physical "pacing"-- like marathon runner--so that you do not try something in a way that is not sustainable and burn out. It may also help you determine how much to pay for such a boat--if anything (for some, like the Meridian, the fair price may be free, or close to it.)

There is a book, Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, that might help you with doing your own survey.

It is interesting that you found three Ariels in your area, but as I think about it, if they were made in Rhode Island--not that far, and are one of the more seaworthy smallish boats, it may be natural that they would be favored for the Great Lakes.

[Captain Smollett]

Porter,

I don't recall seeing ComPac boats on your short list.

I like the ComPac designs a lot.  This past weekend, I had the opportunity to haul a ComPac 25 for a new acquaintance (interesting story).  He had the trailer, I had the truck.

I noticed how easy it was to get this boat on the trailer and out of the water.  The boat draws 3 ft.  The trailer he has had a long tongue and dual axles.  Luckily, the wind tide was "in" and we had plenty of water...first time I had all four tires of my Durango touching water.

My point is that if occasional launch from a trailer is your goal, this boat is perhaps one to consider.  This comment does not include rigging/de-rigging, just getting the boat on and off the trailer.  It was probably no harder than a Typhoon.

Static design numbers for the CP 25 don't look as tight as for some of the other boats you are considering, and it's not a full keeler, either.  But like the ComPacs in general are shippy little boats and seem to hold their own.

Link:

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3021

(Hmmm, this says 4800 lbs, which is heavier than the dude told me....he said a ton and half...oh well.  I also notice that the picture in that link and the drawing have different cabin looks).

[Porter Wayfare]

Com Pac. Hmm. Lots of freeboard there. But I'll look into it. I am constantly amazed by how my opinion of a suitable boat is changing.

For instance, today I looked at a Yankee Dolphin 24 in Detroit. Nice trailer. Nice boat. Nice owner. Very nice owner. The interior was a little plasticy for my taste but could be changed with a coat of paint. The owner had rigged cables from the tiller shaft to the outboard in the well so that the tiller turned the outboard. Very sweet. He is a millwright and knows how to build things.

It is a pretty boat. Maybe not as refined a pretty as a small Alberg, but it had an much greater space below. It is tempting.

I keep thinking that if I have to take care of it, it has to be beautiful. I've learned that much about myself.
Porter

[Captain Smollett]

For instance, today I looked at a Yankee Dolphin 24 in Detroit. Nice trailer. Nice boat.

Mmmm, yes, they ARE nice boats.

[David_Old_Jersey]

One thing that your potnetial boats seem to have in common is a fair bit of keel - given that trailoring is a bit more important to you than for others, have you considered something with a drop down keel? Appreciate that compromises to be made, albeit not neccessarily on performance / seaworthiness - upside is that trailoring becomes more practical.

Although, given you are US based the chances of finding a Fairey Atalanta will be next to zero  ??? - it is so far off the Reservation I could not resist posting it!

Dates from the 1950's using loads of blue sky thinking and is made of wood! (albeit hot moulded veneers, baked under pressure in an autoclave). These have not only been trailored accross Europe (and used as a caravan enroute) but also crossed the Atlantic. Price wise over here seem to range from around GBP5k (needs some work) to GBP10k (a nice one). 26' long, draft 1' 8" (boards up) to 5' 9" (boards down). and with an aft cabin! (if memory serves, had a dink that fitted over the top of the aft cabin - but those rarer than hens teeth!).




http://www.sailingtoday.co.uk/fairey/fairey-atalanta

[Porter Wayfare]

I'm not quite sure if I should thank you, but I would certainly be game for an Atalanta. It combines my love of Uffa Fox, the DeHavilland Mosquito and the PCC Streetcar perfectly: not an easy task. The article you linked to was interesting. So now, where is one for sale?

[jpfx]

there's a quickstep 24 appeared on sailboatlistings. very nice but virtually no accompanying info:
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/28764

[David_Old_Jersey]

So now, where is one for sale?

Owners Group always seem to have a few for sale (not sure how current the listings are):-

http://atalantaowners.ning.com/page/boats-for-sale

None in the States, but a couple up in Cananda. However seems to be (or was) a Fulmar (20 foot version) in Michigan - at $2k (no trailor mentioned! - photo below just plucked from the 'net!).

[marujo_sortudo]

Wow, that Atalanta's an interesting boat.  Thanks for the link.

[Porter Wayfare]

I've found an ad for a Seafarer Meridian that is being called a 26 "stretched" version. Does anybody know anything about what that means?

[CharlieJ]

The 26 was built in the states, not in Holland. After SeaFarer moved production to the US, they offered the "Stretch" version, which used a modified mold. Production was in Holland til 64 (I think) then came to US.

All Meridians through 1963 at least, were Dutch built, and top quality.

[Porter Wayfare]

Charlie,
Are you saying that the Seafarer Meridians were not so top quality? The one I found is a 1970.

[CharlieJ]

No, not at all. I AM saying the Dutch built boats are superb quality. Remember- 1961, 62, 63 and years close to that, builders were really learning to use fiberglass, and had old timers working form wooden boat days. They didn't know the materials, so many boats from that period are rather over built. And the Dutch yards back then had an outstanding reputation.