Porter's Boat Search

[Oldrig]

You should hire the surveyor- then he's working for YOU, not the seller. Also you should cover any extra haul-outs needed for the survey. Nice if it's already on the hard-  saves money ;)

Absolutely agree with Charlie. If you're serious about the boat, hire a surveyor! The cost is trivial when factored into all the costs of boat ownership.

--Joe

[Porter Wayfare]

Whoo man. This is a slippery slope.

I am going to look at a CD27. I am smack up against the upper end of the size parameters I set for myself, but what do you think?

It's not totally out of the realm to get this thing on a trailer, is it? Or is it....

This is just a first look, but what should I key on to decide whether I call a surveyor?

I'm getting a little nervous here.
Porter

[rorik]

When I bought Mathilda, and I'll be the first to say that I tend to do things a little "differently", I decided what I wanted my total cost to be. Then I looked for a boat that was half that or less. As I looked at the boat, I went with a very critical eye (basically start casting mental aspersions as soon as you walk up) and made a list of  everything that needed to be fixed or replaced. If the total of the purchase price and the list are more than your grand total, walk away. Or, find a way to justify it.....  ;D

[Oldrig]

Porter:

The CD27 is considered one of the most perfectly proportioned of the boats that Carl Alberg designed for Cape Dory. (Just ask Dave Perry of Robinhood Marine--he's owned one for more than 30 years, and he was once the marketing manager for Cape Dory.)

Under sail, the 27 outperforms the larger and more common CD28. But for that grace (and the beautiful stern overhang), you get a narrower hull.

It's one of my favorite boats (you can probably tell), and I've sailed a friend's 27 several times. But this boat is at the extreme high end of trailerability. You'll need a big trailer and a heavy-duty tow vehicle.

I'd say, "Go for it," but--once again--get a surveyor if you're serious. And think twice before trying to turn a 27 into a trailerboat.

Oops, I almost forgot to list things to look for:

Soggy deck core, check the chainplates and things like the engine's exhaust elbow (replaceable) and the condition of the fuel tank (if it's the original, be sure that it's not got any corrosion--that could ruin your day for sure).

Any other suggestions from SailFarers?

--Joe

--Joe

[s/v necessity]

I've loaded and unloaded a CD27 from a trailer using a boat ramp before.  So it's possible.  But it's going to take some planning and some care (I fabricated a wheel to attach to the front of the trailer and used a chain between the truck and trailer to roll the trailer back into the water.)  If I remember correctly it's even legal to pull down the road.... (Narrow enough beam to be legal)

The CD27 is rumored to sail the best of all the Cape Dory's and is considered by many to be the prettiest also.  I wouldn't let the size of the 27 deter you; she is only 1500#'s bigger.  Somewhat familiar with both boats, I would probably take the CD27 *everything else being equal*.  (I'm easily drawn towards "pretty" though)

Research a bit into the chainplates (actually backing plates for the padeyes) on a Cape Dory, that's something to be aware of.  The cape dory will also have a hull liner (preventing access to those wonderful backing plates), and I don't think the Bristol does.  Check carefully around all the hardware on the deck and cabin top, especially around the mast and the base of the tiller, deck fills too.  Any cracks in the gel coat should be considered suspect too.  (a moisture meter would be a great help here, if not essential)  Cape Dory left multiple avenues for water ingress to my balsa core, and the water did just that...  (It was not detectable without a moisture meter.)

A B27 came with my trailer and it was built considerably better than my CD28, but it didn't have all the fancy teak and bronze and a few other nice things like a seahood and such...  :)  It's all a tradeoff.  While the B27 I owned for a short while was impressively built, with obvious skill and care, I have heard that they are not all that way.  And while they obviously missed the boat on a few things with my CD28, I hear that they are not all that way either.  Reputation will have to take back seat to your up close and personal observations.

[s/v necessity]

Oh and I agree with Joe, dont think you'll be making a trailer sailer out of the CD27.  But then again you wont out of the B24 either.  I have pulled a B27, A CD27 and A CD28 down the road, and I think I've moved them all safely.  It's a serious endevor though, and if you are going to haul that much weight down the road you better do your homework, and check all your equipment carefully.  I use a 3/4 ton truck, load levelling hitch and a Triad trailer, with very good brakes and I would consider that a bare minimum for hauling any of those boats.  It's not a casual affair. 

[Porter Wayfare]

I can't thank you guys enough for the perspective you're lending me!

The trailerability issue in an important one. That's why I was ready to jump on a CD Typhoon Weekender with a perfect Trident trailer! But my wife promised it would be a long weekend if it even lasted....

To tell you the truth, of the three, the CD 25D, the CD 26 and the CD27, I am most smitten by the CD 26--at least as far as the line drawings go. Actually I am very smitten. They're all beautiful, really, but looking at them side-by-side, the 25 is a little too up at the bow, the 27 is a little too straight, but the 26 is just right.

In addition, the cabin layout of the 25D is "all in one place." My wife and I like the look of a V berth as "a bit of a place to get away." Not much, I understand, but I bet every bit helps.

And at 5300 lbs displacement as compared to the 7500 lbs of the CD 27, we may have moved back into the realm of trailerability. (I've worked dairy farming and construction so I've managed some pretty heavy stuff.}

So at the risk of making a nuisance of myself, what's the thinking about a CD 26? Probably an outboard, although I would go for an inboard if I could find one.

Carry on...
Porter

[Captain Smollett]

The trailerability issue in an important one.

Porter, may I ask how you define "trailerable?"  Sometimes that means the boat will fit on a trailer and can be towed down the road, and MAYBE be launched at a regular ramp.  That's the looser definition.

For a lot of us, when we hear "trailerable," we think a little more along the lines of "easy to trailer SAIL."  That is, the emphasis is on convenient set-up, launch, retrieval and derigging.

I knew a guy with a CD Typhoon and he did not really consider it "trailerable."  He had a trailer and did in fact trailer launch it (with some effort), but rather he launched and kept her in a slip.

It's not really a 'do it often' kind of deal, at least that's what I got from him.  Tim and other Typhoon owners, you have input on this?

My 18 footer is trailerable in the stricter sense...arrive at the ramp parking lot and be underway in 45 minutes or less...often 30 minutes, and that's by myself.  She draws 12" with the centerboard up, and only weighs 1350 lbs (fairly easy to load on a trailer).

Newer boats with well-thought-out set-ups, like the Compac catboats, setup time is 10 minutes or so...not much more than your average bass boat at the ramp.

If you want a truly trailerable boat to explore the Lakes and beyond, this aspect merits careful consideration.  It fully depends on how often you want to go sailing and if you are sailing off the trailer each and every time.  There are boats that are both fairly comfortable to cruise that are also easy to 'trailer-sail,' but the full-keel models on your list (including perhaps the Typhoon) may not be the best choice for what you want right now.

I say "may" because I don't know...just throwing it out there.

The weight and physical size of the boat might be a lower consideration...the right truck and trailer solves that problem.  But, getting the boat on and off are separate issues.

One of the biggest issues is raising the mast.  Any 25-27 footer is going to have a pretty big stick to raise; that will require some 'engineering' to get convenient to want to do it often.

Another is draft...some ramps are better than others.  Swing keel or centerboard boats 'shine' as trailer sailers, and well, some folks (not all by any stretch) like the idea of water ballast to give stability on the water while keeping towing weight light.

There are some very innovative strategies to making a boat "cruisable" on the water and easy/safe to tow on the trailer...and easy to go between these two 'states.'

The majority of 'comfortable cruising boats' that are used off the trailer a lot are in the 24-26 foot range and usually don't have full keels.

If you are only talking about occasionally trailering the boat (launching once a year or something), then none of this matters.

[CharlieJ]

Had a long phone conversation with Fred Bingham some years ago, discussing this very point. We were talking about his various Allegra designs. Fred was Bruce Bingham's father for those who don't know the name. Bruce is the designer of the Flicka.

At any rate, we talked about trailerabilty and he sorta coined a phrase that suits-
Allegra's, and boats of that size, such as my 5300 pound full keel Tehani, are "highway legal"

Boats that can easily be rigged and launched are "trailerable"

There is a vast difference.

[s/v necessity]

Be careful if you get to meet a CD27 in person, cause she will smite you!  I own a 28 and I've been around several 25's and I'm pretty sure I've seen a 26 at some point or another.  The 27 wins hands down in my book when it comes to "smiting good looks"

While it's a hassle to trailer these larger boats, I really think the biggest issue is launching, retrieving and rigging them.  So while you are looking into it all you might look at what facilities will be available to you.  Specifically what's available to step the mast, and how deep of a draft can be trailer launched, etc etc.  

My experience is that if you are going to launch and retreive once a year, then any of the boats will do (I have a friend who does this with a 28' Pearson Triton).  If you plan on driving her out each weekend, I suspect that you will want the smallest boat your wife will tolerate, infact perhaps even smaller....  We did this for awhile with a catalina 22 and while we became proficient at the whole process, it was a hassle for a simple day sail.

I see that C. Smollett has beat me to it!  I'll go head and submit the above post and add "yeah what he said!"

[Porter Wayfare]

Ah, the fog is lifting.

Right now I sail a Wayfarer dinghy: 15'10", 375 lbs, 8" draft board up. I can launch and retrieve it alone without getting the axle of the trailer in the water. A foot is plenty. I step the 21' wood mast by hand. Half an hour in or out. That's trailerable.

The guy with the Typhoon did the same except for the part about not getting the axle of the trailer in the water. The tongue had an extension. He did it with a small Buick, I forget the model. I think a big part of it was the fabulously well designed trailer he had. It was made for the boat.

"Highway legal"-what a great way to put it! I get it! Our thinking on the frequency-of-trailering of a big boat is three or four times a year for a couple of weeks at a time. So that takes some further consideration....

If we're just going for a day or overnight we take the Wayfarer. I love sailing that boat. Every little thing you do has an apparent effect. And it can go almost anywhere.

I just made an appointment to look at a CD 27 tomorrow at noon. So, here goes!

Smite away,
Porter

[Oldrig]

I just made an appointment to look at a CD 27 tomorrow at noon. So, here goes! Smite away,
Porter

She'll steal your heart!

BTW, I don't personally know anybody who owns a CD26, but only 78 were built, so your chances of finding one are even slimmer than finding a 25D.

Go ahead, check out that 27 and, if she's sound, take the plunge. You'll never regret it.

--Joe
P.S. I make no pretense of being objective on this subject. How can you be objective about sailing? ;D

[Porter Wayfare]

Well, I'd have to say my main impression of this boat, a CD 27 hull #5, was shabby. She's being neglected. She's on the hard and has been for a couple of years, uncovered here in Michigan. Every paint surface was peeling. When I opened the cabin the first thing I noticed was the smell of diesel fuel--not auspicious. The bilge had water with fuel floating on top.

I don't know if I'm going to pursue this one for now. There are others to look at first.

Boats get bigger exponentially to their length, don't they! Driving through the marina I saw rudders bigger than my Wayfarer!

Heart not yet taken. Onward,
Porter

[Chattcatdaddy]

Just have to keep looking. Lot of poop boats out there, and you never know until you go to look. I searched night and day for boats thru criagslist, ebay, sailboatlistings, sailingtexas, you name it and I was searching on it. Finally found my Ariel well outside my search area.

Just remember that the wrong boat in the right location is still the wrong boat. Right boat in a bad location can be moved and you will not regret it later.

Keep searching and before you know it you will have a boat you can proud to sail.

[Oldrig]

Just have to keep looking.

Well, I guess this 27 won't steal your heart--or your wallet.

Keep looking, and best of luck.

--Joe

[Porter Wayfare]

I'm off to the Toronto Boat Show tomorrow. In the area is a Vega, an Alberg 22 (I hope) and a Bristol 24 Corsair. So we'll see....

[Porter Wayfare]

If I may...
There's a Hinterhoeller H28 for sale in Toronto. I searched SailFar for H28's but didn't get what I wanted. You know, it doesn't look too bad. Draft is good. What's the thinking here on it?

Thanks in advance, as always,
Porter

[Porter Wayfare]

The Alberg 22 I saw in Toronto was not so hot. While not so messy inside as the CD 27 I saw in Detroit, it was uncovered and loaded onto the cradle in such a way that three of the four pads were pressing dents into the hull. The dents looked to be about an inch deep. No cracks, but it looked like the boat had been on the cradle for some time. Bummer.

The nice part was--my wife's desire for standing headroom aside--I can imagine being quite satisfied with the cabin. The boat also struck me as manageable on a trailer in the way the Typhoon did and the CD 27 certainly did not.

The Bristol 24 near Toronto sold before I could see it. I didn't make it to the Hinterhoeller 28, and I notice that no one here has offered an opinion on the H 28 either. What does that mean?

I did see a Contessa 26. It was an old one and needed paint. It was locked up so I couldn't get inside, but it seems like a lot of boat to deal with and still not have standing headroom. Still she was nice looking, that's for sure. It's a little too deep for me though.

As much as the weight, the depth of the keel looks to be a critical factor in trailer-ability.

I loved the look and feel of the Alberg 22, but it's going to be a hard sell.

Onward,
Porter

[Porter Wayfare]

Greetings,
I need some help here: does anybody know anything about the "Olympic Star 23" built in Montreal. It's pretty obscure from what little I can find, but I kind of like what I see. I've run across a reference to its being solid fiberglass, i.e., no core. It's on SailboatData, if you're interested. I have an opportunity to check one out. Opinions? Experience?

I'm concerned I'm acting like a cat looking at birds through the window.

Porter

[rorik]

Greetings,
I need some help here: does anybody know anything about the "Olympic Star 23" built in Montreal. It's pretty obscure from what little I can find, but I kind of like what I see. I've run across a reference to its being solid fiberglass, i.e., no core. It's on SailboatData, if you're interested. I have an opportunity to check one out. Opinions? Experience?

I'm concerned I'm acting like a cat looking at birds through the window.

Porter

..... "cat looking at birds through the window"......... that's funny......
Here's the link to the boat on sailboatdata.com just to make it easier.....

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4980