Porter's Boat Search

[Chattcatdaddy]

Greetings all.

My wife and I are retired, healthy and not-quite-out-of-money. A very lucky place to be. Speaking of lucky places to be, a number of years ago I awoke from a dream with a clear and very important message. The message was: If you are lucky enough to be alive on Earth and you are not living next to the ocean, you are just throwing your life away.

Well, I'm near Port Huron, MI, at least. I did live next to the ocean for a while in Guinea, West Africa but that's another story.

It may be off topic in this forum by about 500-and-some feet, but I got my first taste of sailing working on a 1905 556' ore freighter in the mid sixties. That is another story too. It was like working in a finely cared-for museum.

A couple of other attempts at sailing ended wildly out of control. But I always felt I had it in me.

So when tag-teaming with my sister to care for our mother came to an end in the late fall of 2010, I hit the water in a dry suit and a Laser. I sailed until the deck iced up.

A Wayfarer, with our serendipitously similar names, has been my goal for a long time and in the summer of 2011 I finally found a beauty. She's wood. I sailed her almost every day into December. It seems like the wild days are a little behind me. My wife has noticed that. She wants to sail.

So, here's the evolution of our thinking, my wife and me. She wants to sail but doesn't want to camp out on our woodie Wayfarer dinghy for two weeks at a time. She does camp out every year for a while, so she knows what she's talking about. I guess that means a cabin.

I'm satisfied with the Wayfarer. I tend toward small. Looking at tons of boats on the internet and reading a few books, I gravitated to something along the Alberg line. We looked at a Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender. It was a really nice boat and fit the bill for me. The trailer was even better. But the cuddy was very small and so low I couldn't even sit up straight. Still, I would have gone for it, but she said it was just too small. OK, I'll go along with that.

So now what I'm looking for is a Typhoon with standing headroom. I guess that means: not more than 27' LOD, relatively narrow beam, relatively low freeboard, around 50% B/D, and a galley, at least. Add to that maybe (but what do I know?) something fun about the sails to play with like a fractional rig or a cutter, a tiller, and shallower than 4' (3'6" is better).

And oh, yes, it's got to be pretty. Every time I see the Wayfarer it strikes me how pretty she is and you know how that goes for getting involved.

We're not in a position (or experienced enough!) to jump onto a boat for long periods of time right now. We can get away for a week or two at a time several times a year, spring and early summer being the least likely, and more likely as the year goes on toward winter. We live between Port Huron and Bay City, Michigan.

We're most interested in sailing around islands in the Great Lakes, say Les Cheneaux, Georgian Bay, the islands around Rossport on the north side of Superior. Then there is the Trent-Severn waterway and the Rideau Canal...and on and on.
The Maritimes...mais oui!. We're not very interested in sailing south. Trailerable puts all those places within a couple week's reach.

People who (like you, by now) have been kind enough to sit through my snowballing boat-parameter spiels have calmly told me at the end of it that I am describing a Cape Dory 25D.

As for speed vs seaworthiness, my wife and I both lean to seaworthiness where big water is concerned, for sure. It's just the two of us for cruising--maybe a couple more for an afternoon, but that's all.

As far as a fixer-upper goes--I want a really nice boat. The nicer the better. I'll keep it that way. I have indoor storage available. But I don't I want to redo it. I want to sail it.

I'm obsessed it's fair to say. Am I in the right place? When I stumbled across this site in a search for CD25Ds the couple of threads I read led me to believe I might be. I was impressed by the down-to-earth level of the discussion. (Which reminds me: I think it was Issac Asimov who said something like, Any outsider looking at this planet would not call it "Earth". They'd call it "Ocean.")

I'm hoping that I may be able to get the help of some experienced eyes and ears to find a boat. If this introduction is not the place to ask for help like that, please direct me to the right one.

So thanks for letting me come onboard.
Porter

Welcome aboard Wafare

You have come to the right place. A ton of great small boat knowledge here without all the usual forum drama.

Sounds like you have had some great adventures. Would love to hear hear about those some day if you feel like sharing.

Good luck on your boat search. I know exactly how boat hunting is as I just ended my search last week when I found a great deal on a Pearson Ariel.

Here are some boats to keep a look out for while you search:

Pearson Ariel 26
Pearson Triton 28
Bristol 24, 26, and 27
Cape Dory 25 and 25D very different boats from each other
Albin Vega 27
Flicka 20
Falmouth Cutter 22
Rhodes Meridian 25


(Edit by Captain Smollett: quoted original post for context after moving thread)

[Porter Wayfare]

Chattcatdaddy,
Interestingly, your post

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3451.msg37717.html#msg37717

about finding your Ariel was one of the posts I read that led me to believe that sailFar was a serious and valuable forum.

Besides wanting to hear from anybody here about a nice CD25D for sale, I'd be really interested to know what boat search strategies have paid off for folks here in the past. I mean, I look on Boat Trader and Yacht World and Sailboat Listings and Craigslist, EBay and the Cape Dory site, but I have a feeling there must be better ways.

I'd go around to the marinas here in Michigan, but most I've called are closed for the winter or the boats aren't accessible.

I have the time to put into this now, but come spring I start to get busy growing things.

So what's a good method?

Thanks all,
Porter

[jotruk]

have you tried sail Texas there are numerous listings all over the nation. Might be the way to go

[Porter Wayfare]

Jotruk,
Yes, SailingTexas too. I've been looking at charts of the places we're interested in sailing to see how much we lose if we go deeper than 3'6" draft. That's a hard call.
Porter

[Captain Smollett]

Jotruk,
Yes, SailingTexas too. I've been looking at charts of the places we're interested in sailing to see how much we lose if we go deeper than 3'6" draft. That's a hard call.
Porter

Hi Porter,

I don't know where you plan to sail (long term), but don't discount the 'benefits' tides might give you...

For example, we anchored here,



for over 12 hours...more than one tide cycle, and never touched bottom in a 4.25 ft draft boat.

Then again, about two hours after leaving that anchorage, we did this



So what do I know?

;D

Good luck on your search.  Looking for boats, looking AT boats, is almost as fun as sailing them.

PS:  I did see you mentioned the Great Lakes, so tides helping may be out....didn't know what other longer term plans you might have...)

[Captain Smollett]

I split this from the Introduction Thread so Porter could have his own place to discuss his boat search and the replies would not get lost in future introductions.

[Porter Wayfare]

Cap'n,
I really appreciate the consideration!

As far as the two picture you posted above regarding the implications of draft, I think the chart in the first anchorage might have actually been in fathoms, while the chart you were using in the second instance must have been in hands, a unit usually reserved for measuring horses, but sporadically used on nautical charts, where if not noticed, it is often the source of what you experienced.

I'm smack in the middle of the Great Lakes and I'll be here for a while so I am leaving the understanding of tides, etc., for another day.

Porter

[Captain Smollett]

As far as the two picture you posted above regarding the implications of draft, I think the chart in the first anchorage might have actually been in fathoms, while the chart you were using in the second instance must have been in hands, a unit usually reserved for measuring horses, but sporadically used on nautical charts, where if not noticed, it is often the source of what you experienced.

Well, my ego thanks you for that thought.

But alas, the first chart WAS in feet...but in an area with a 6 foot or so tide range (and a Spring Tide at that), so I really had the water.

For the second, well, I cannot blame a chart error or even a chart READING error for that one.  Just one of those things...   ;)

[tomwatt]

To add to the list of "possibles"...
Pearson Renegade 27 (can't believe no one mentioned it yet)
Falmouth Cutter 22

Wishing you the best of luck in finding the boat you love!

[Porter Wayfare]

Greetings,
I had someone from SailFar contact me about a Renegade. I looked at the Pearson 27 and wrote him back that it was a little too modern for my taste. He explained I was looking at the wrong boat. He was right. The Renegade is a much nicer looking boat. It does look like the Ariel.

Like I said, I'm coming from sailing a dinghy. When I look at a chart unless there's a rock sticking out I can sail in it--almost. I guess I've kind of gotten spoiled by that.

When I think about going to a keelboat that shallow draft part is the part I really hate to give up. For a while I'll be sailing around islands in the Great Lakes--Huron and Superior. I've got it in my head that I don't want to go deeper than 3'6", but you know--really--in terms of what that actually means as far as where I can go at 3'6" that I couldn't if I drew 4'--I don't know. It's just a hunch.

Thanks for helping me along,
Porter

[Oldrig]

Porter,

Best of luck in your search for a CD25D. I've owned mine for 8 years now, and find it to be the ideal size for me and my mostly-non-sailing wife.

You might want to check out the Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association (CDSOA) message board (www.capedory.org), but as you've probably already discovered, 25Ds are few and far between. The other Alberg designs cited by others on this board, especially the Ariel, are very similar and equally seaworthy.

One of my Cape Dory colleagues wanted to upgrade from a Typhoon Weekender to a 25D, and it took him three years of searching. However, I think he was very picky and didn't want to pay what the market will bear for one of these sweet little boats.

Keep your eyes open, and your search will probably be rewarded, especially if you're willing to travel a bit (there are lots of Cape Dorys here in Massachusetts, as well as on the Chesapeake).

Best of luck,

--Joe

[Porter Wayfare]

Ahoy!
What's the scoop on a Bristol 24? I may have something to look at. Any experience you can lend is appreciated.
Porter

[Oldrig]

What's the scoop on a Bristol 24?

Bristol "Corsair" or 24 is a fine boat with a handsome full-keel design. Because of the boat's age, be sure to check things like the chainplates.

I've never sailed this model, but I have sailed some of the other Alberg Bristols. Definitely worth a look.

Good luck,

--Joe

[tomwatt]

Ahoy!
What's the scoop on a Bristol 24? I may have something to look at. Any experience you can lend is appreciated.
Porter

Some were really nice, some not so nice... check the bilge area for lead ballast vs. iron scrap plus concrete. They can range from spare and spartan inside to nearly luxurious with teak and mahogany. I believe the Corsair was a Paul Coble design, a little higher in the forward area than most of Carl Alberg's design, but translates to a little more room in the vee-berth area. The only boat Coble designed, going into work on Navy vessels for the rest of his career. Heavily-ballasted.

[okawbow]

I've sailed our 1976 Bristol 24 since 2007. I did a 1000 mile trip from Kentucky Lake to Tarpon Springs Fl. The boat sails very well, and is capable of handling blue water. Ours has a 1 cylinder diesel that is very handy for long trips.

Try and find one with lead ballast instead of concrete. Although; if the concrete had enough steel scrap added, it is ok. The ones with lead ballast have a bilge about 1' deep. The concrete ballasted boats have a very shallow ballast.

I think you will like a Bristol 24 as much as a similarly equiped CD 25D.

[Porter Wayfare]

Okabow,

Did yours have the wood or the white laminate interior? After I saw the white interior of Chatcatdaddy's new Ariel I was sold on white. I wonder how the laminate holds up.

Somewhere somebody mentioned beefing up the chainplates and moving them outboard. I assume they meant the shroud attachments...? Look at this one:

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/13650

What do you think of that boat?

Porter

[okawbow]

Looks like an outstanding boat!

The price is on the high side, but the equipment and modifications are worth it. I would want to check the condition of all the sails. New motor. That's a real plus. Check the decks, cabin top and cockpit for soft spots. The chainplates have been moved to the hull, and an extra shroud added. That's good. Check the mast support beam inside, to see if there are any stress cracks.

For that money, I would want a sea trial and a survey from a trusted professional.

Chuck

[tomwatt]

Looks like an outstanding boat!

The price is on the high side, but the equipment and modifications are worth it. I would want to check the condition of all the sails. New motor. That's a real plus. Check the decks, cabin top and cockpit for soft spots. The chainplates have been moved to the hull, and an extra shroud added. That's good. Check the mast support beam inside, to see if there are any stress cracks.

For that money, I would want a sea trial and a survey from a trusted professional.

Chuck

Agreed. Much nicer inside than many. Presuming addressing all the deficiencies of the original means they actually improved upon, looks like a nice boat.

[Porter Wayfare]

I'm coming from a land based background: I designed and built houses. I know how real estate goes--who is generally expected to pay for what. In boat trading, who is expected to pay for what? Like a survey for instance. I know everything can be negotiated, but it's nice not to wade into something and ruffle feathers.
Porter

[CharlieJ]

You should hire the surveyor- then he's working for YOU, not the seller. Also you should cover any extra haul-outs needed for the survey. Nice if it's already on the hard-  saves money ;)