Recommending Too-Small Anchors

[Captain Smollett]

Gack.

I fellow on the A-30 list just posted about trying to choose between 14 and 22 lb Delta for his boat...to set up for cruising in Maine.  His plan includes only 30 ft of chain.

He says that according to the Delta web site, the Alberg 30 falls 'right between' the 14 and 22!  Wow.

I don't know what specific site he's referencing exactly, but this one confirms it (pdf warning). Technically, it's true 30 ft LOA is right on the line between the two...but, the page also says if "heavy" and guide is marginal, go to the larger.  That seems to suggest the 22 lb.

One reply told of the 22 lb Delta dragging numerous times, but the 25 lb Manson Supreme holding better so far.  Others have told of the 22 lb Deltas dragging as well.

I think the anchor manufacturers should provide the disclaimer that their recommendations are for boats that do NOT anchor in trying conditions...I cannot imagine using the 22 or even smaller anchor for an A-30 as a primary (storm) anchor while cruising.

[tomwatt]

Last time I looked at one of those tables/guides, I could have sworn there was a footnote regarding boat displacement... an A30 definitely qualifies as a heavier-weight boat, and therefore larger end of the anchor spectrum from the old tables I saw.
30' of chain I would consider right for that boat for the lunch hook, not the main anchor.

[ntica]

This anchor issue is interesting... which anchor is best etc.? what is "your" oppinion? There's a whole load of different anchors out there...wich one are you using and pleased with? would be interesting to know?!

[Captain Smollett]

This anchor issue is interesting... which anchor is best etc.? what is "your" oppinion? There's a whole load of different anchors out there...wich one are you using and pleased with? would be interesting to know?!

We have a number of anchor/anchoring threads here.

My point in this thread was to discuss the manufacturer recommendation itself, that Delta's own guide is for an anchor clearly undersized for the boat.  Even if you follow their adjustment for displacement, they still seem to be recommending 22 lb for this boat, which is, in my opinion and in the experience of others, inadequate.

For comparison, my Alberg 30 carries primary and secondary anchors that are both over 30 lbs (15 kg or greater).  I cannot say that I feel these are too much, and I'm quite curious why the manufacturer itself promotes what appears clear is undersized ground tackle.

Everyone says "go up a size from the book."  Another way to state my "concern" is why don't they just write the book correctly?

[rorik]

I think when the manufacturers guides were written, they were speccing for the new lighter displacement boats, with fin keels and spade rudders. "Make sailing fun and easy for the whole family".  Nobody but "cruisers" carried heavy anchors. And nobody cruised in the new boats...they raced them, and took weekend trips in sheltered waters to other marinas or parks. It was just the oddball, fringy types who carried real anchors. We're not the majority market for the anchor makers. And that led to the guides for the new sailors who might want to drop the hook for the weekend in sheltered waters but not go to the trouble and expense of installing a windlass or carrying a bunch of chain....
The "guide" that I used was to get the heaviest anchor I could lift with my own hands and an equal amount of chain. Then, get a enough 3 strand to equal a 10:1 scope in water that is as deep as the masthead is above the water.

[tomwatt]

I saw this on a sailboat for sale ad: "33# Bruce Anchor w/15' chain & 200' rode"
The boat is a 33' Morgan Outisland displacing 16,000 pounds (plus whatever gear & possessions are aboard).
The chart I have (SAIL 1997 Buyer's Guide) suggests a 16.5 pound Bruce, & 35' of 5/16" chain for a boat that size... upsizing for weight everything by one notch is still a bit tiny.
Nowhere nearly enough chain, nylon rode a little on the short side. By the charts, the anchor is big enough, but...

[CharlieJ]

This anchor issue is interesting... which anchor is best etc.? what is "your" oppinion? There's a whole load of different anchors out there...wich one are you using and pleased with? would be interesting to know?!

There really is no "best". Some anchors work better in certain conditions than others, while those others might be perfect for another set of conditions. I always encourage people to carry several, of different types.

I use, and like, the Bruce type anchors. Have one of 22 pounds on  Tehani, and have a 16.5 pounder on Necessity, but I also carried two other types, including a true Danforth.

A friend of mine in Florida always responds to the "how heavy" question with " five pounds less than you can pull up off the bottom" :o A bit facetious, but gives you the idea ;)

And I always advocate AT LEAST a boat length of chain, and more is better. Of course if you aren't anchoring in coral, or oyster shell banks, you may  get away with less, but I wouldn't encourage it.

[Leroy - Gulf 29]

I thought I read somewhere that you should have at least a boatlength of chain, and a pound per foot of boat.  I can't remember if that was waterline or overall. n Is that reasonable?

[CharlieJ]

And I always advocate AT LEAST a boat length of chain, and more is better. Of course if you aren't anchoring in coral, or oyster shell banks, you may  get away with less, but I wouldn't encourage it.

Leroy- from my last post

[ntica]

Different bottom substrate nedds differnt anchors I guess. I was thinking of the Delta, and a Bruce. And Iwas thinking-also- one size up! but There's a whole lot of differnt "claws" on anchors... so will probably have to let my "comming" expertice decide in a future. my boat is 26 feet, I was thinking of 15-20 meters of chain.
Will bye some needed anchoring stuff tommorow. pic's will follow when ready.

Frezzing cold now >:( 15 below zero :o

[Cruise]

  I just bought a 44 pound Bruce type anchor for my 30 footer last Friday. It might be a bit much for my boat, but I have a manual windlass, and I will sleep well at night.

[ntica]

  I just bought a 44 pound Bruce type anchor for my 30 footer last Friday. It might be a bit much for my boat, but I have a manual windlass, and I will sleep well at night.

A good point!

[rorik]

Mathilda, a CD28, has a 35# CQR on 30' 5/16 BBB and 400' of 1/2" 3 strand. Secondary is a 22# Danforth on 30' of 5/16" BBB and 200' of 1/2" 3 strand.

[s/v necessity]

I've always assumed that the anchor manufactures have a motive or incintive to spec a lighter anchor.  Specifically that the consumer is looking for a lighter anchor, and wants someone to help them out in making this choice. 

So the manufacturers end up specifying the lightest anchor they can imaging using on a given boat.  It makes their anchor look better, and it sells more anchors.  Heck you've got a guy worrying about wether to get the 14, or the 22 lb anchor.  That says it all for me right there.  Less cost and less weight are the only advantages the 14 could possibly have  (and how significant can either be when comparing these sizes).  Given the obvious advantages of the 22 over the 14, I find it increadible that he's even pondering the choice.  Especially when the real answer is get the #35 anchor...

Here's something I've been curious about though.  I have heard some people state that getting too large an ancor is bad, because you cant get it to set properly...  Anyone out there agree?

[Cruise]

Here's something I've been curious about though.  I have heard some people state that getting too large an ancor is bad, because you cant get it to set properly...  Anyone out there agree?

I absolutely disagree, though you might have some difficulty getting it unset after a good blow, and that is the whole point.

[marujo_sortudo]

It does seem like a ridiculously light anchor for the boat in question, esp. for a cruiser.  Alas, I don't think there is any common sizing criterion used between manufacturers.  For those of us that are anchor shopping, it probably makes more sense to look at outright weight and fluke surface area / angle.  If there's any doubt, I'd always get the bigger anchor, provided that I can lift it by hand, with mud attached.  In my personal experience, cruising in Maine doesn't require much chain at all (Mimi Rose [32', 16000#] has cruised extensively under various owners with 9 ft of chain.)  Of course, her primary is a 42# yachtsman which well suited to the varied bottoms encountered there and heavy all by itself.  That said, she has laid to her 15# Northill stern anchor quite well through many a blow with no chain.  Unfortunately, anchoring seems to be more religion than science and folks throw out rules of thumb like commandments.  Good seamanship and attentiveness still rule the day.

[Seafarer]

I had a BIG Danforth on Starquest when I bought her, which held in the hard-packed sandy bottom of Boca Ciega Bay from March to October. Then I moved it to the Manatee River with its muddy bottom and it dragged three times - from 100 yards to a full mile (where a the shoaling shoreline stopped it).

I took the opportunity to switch to a 55# Rocna with a Kong swivel on the all-chain (3/8) rode. That did drag perhaps 100' at most during a severe storm. It held there for a little over a year. I had to use the engine to break it free - no way I could have done it by hand! Now I am anchored in hard-packed sand again and stay put through everything.

I did a delivery of a 33' Morgan Out Island and missed the entrance to Government Cut at Apalachicola (night with no moon, and the lights don't line up with the cut apparently)! Went aground in the surf and used a seemingly small and light Fortress on nearly all-rope rode to hold us bow-to the waves for five hours until the tide lifted us off. I had a choice between that and a large plow, but trusted the fluke-style anchor more for a single-direction pull.

When I had to choose a new primary anchor for my IP26, I went with a 33lb Lewmar Claw on 36' of 3/8 chain and more-than-enough 3/4" line. I switched the Danforth it came with to a few feet of chain and 100' of 1/2". Both of these set in a Bahamian Moor held the boat through 20-30 knot winds in an exposed, choppy anchorage. Again, packed sand bottom made for terrific holding.

I'll likely buy a second 55# Rocna and a big (FX37 or FX55) Fortress for Starquest, and a smaller Fortress for the IP as well. These come up relatively cheap on my local Craigslist.

I am not particularly fond of plow anchors, but may add one to the IP26 as well since they also come cheap on Craigslist.

I believe manufacturers suggest too-small sized anchors to make their design look better against their competition. There are enough real-world tests out there to see what you really should be using.

[mitiempo]

About a year ago on the Catalina 30 group (which I also belong to) I suggested the Danforth 12 Hi tensile was too light for a 30' boat after someone mentioned it. The reply was that it is ok for a boat up to 42' - I checked and it was!

I have a CS27 and currently have a 25lb CQR. I will be buying a 33 lb Rocna (or Manson Supreme) before heading off and probably 40' of chain. I think that is about the max I can comfortably handle without a windlass.

Steve Dashew suggests that you take the manufacturer's suggested weight and double it for starters. I think that is good advice.

[Porter Wayfare]

You all must know, but on the off chance that someone doesn't, of the book The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Earl Hinz. I thought it was really well done. But a criticism of the book now is that it has not been updated to include new anchor designs. I don't know about that being a very good reason to not read  an otherwise excellent presentation to the very complicated operation of an anchor.

Speaking of new anchor designs, why is the Bulwagga anchor which seemed to be so well liked no longer in production?

Porter

[mitiempo]

The Bulwagga is not without its faults. Here is a link to a good rundown of most anchors, showing pros and cons.
http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/new-gen-boat-anchors-explained.php