Potential Boat Delivery - Should I?

[w00dy]

I've been offered a "job", delivering a boat more than 1000 miles. The owner isn't going to pay me, but there's no deadline and expenses are paid. I'm inclined to do it to get out of the house for the summer and on the water. For the experience...

That being said. The boat is wooden and uninsured. I am not CG Licensed anything. I am not officially qualified to be a paid captain. I have the requisite experience and knowledge and have made this trip before.

Am I legally allowed to do this, since I'm not getting paid? Can I protect myself from being held liable if this rotten tub sinks or takes out a dock? Please put on your legal hats and give me your most stern advice. I'm the kind of person who will probably throw caution to the wind and do it anyway, but let it not be said I wasn't warned ;)

[Michael Homsany]

I don't even pretend to know any law, but I've had one delivery, and one captain's job, both of which I said 'never again' afterwards.

On the delivery (paid or no), no one asks you to do one if it's a fun trip, or potentially without problems.  My delivery from heck was to be from Tutuila Island (Am Samoa) to Port Townsend, non-stop.

During the delivery:

• The refridgeration system went south, leaving us with little food
• The batteries were not as bad as reported, they were worse!
• The keel boats worked, so we were taking on 10 gal/hour
• I knew it was 10 gal/hour because without batteries, we had to bail with a measuring cup
• The sails were inappropriate for sailing to windward in tradewinds
• The sails, although in good condition, had rotten stitching, requiring each seam to be restitched, by hand, six times (zigzag up, then down)
• The rigging, very lightweight for sailing, started shreading.  Very disconcerting watching rigging wire strands breaking, with the mast moving more and more.

Aside from that, it was a great trip! :-)  600nm north of Hawai'i, we still hadn't hit the westerlies, so I made a management decision that the stbd rigging wasn't going to stand up to another day, did a 180* turn, and called in at Hawai'i.

Owner was not happy with me.  Owner wanted 'a professional' to survey the rigging, sails, and keel.

Sailright said that I couldn't pay him to do the job that I did, and what I did (using 100% of the old holes) was a better quality job than what a machine would do making new stitches.

Rigger's comment was "How the **** did you get that boat in with the stick still up".

The yard took up 3/4 to 1-1/4 turns on all of the keel bolts.

Captain's job:

After my previous delivery experience, I went over the rigging and sails like a hawk.  Short trip, 400nm from Tutuila to the Vava'u Group in Tonga.

Just because I'm paranoid and old fashioned, I did take my digital multimeter, Walker Excelsiour IV log, propane soldering iron, and sextant.  

The first 'repair' was leaving the harbour, the lagging around the exhaust caught fire (didn't know that's what it was at first), requiring that I be lowered in by the heels with a fire extinguisher.  The combination of the pitching crossing the harbour bar (enough that purse seiners will bury their bows), physical attitude, and fumes caused me to be mildly seasick (a rare occurance).

The first night, the autopilot died.  No worries, oops, binnacle lamp didn't work.  Then the SatNav went on the fritz, as well as the other instruments.  The owners, who swore off booze for the duration of the trip, started secretly drinking during their watch.

I drink at sea.  I do not get drunk at sea.  I don't even get tipsy.  But, having a brewski or a nip on watch is part of the enjoyment of sailing for me.  Having a crew that's worthless from alcohol isn't.

And this, my lad, is why I don't deliver, nor captain, yachts anymore!

[Chattcatdaddy]

Wow!

After that story...I say go for it! ;D

[David_Old_Jersey]

I've been offered a "job", delivering a boat more than 1000 miles.

The two things that leapt out at me were a) the boat is uninsured and b) the owner is offering expenses only. Nothing wrong with either of those, but it does scream Owner broke and therefore boat likely to have "issues". Double that if the boat is a new purchase or Owner abandoned her to return home by other means. Personally I would agree in advance some minimum standards of seaworthiness / working equipment (electronics and domestics) onboard - and to include a good pre-departure sea trial. Would also be a good idea to check that the water tanks are drinkable! and if the boat not as claimed you come home (or owner fixes on own dime - whilst you sit onboard on expenses). You may want to lend a hand on fixing some stuff - but if Owner wants a delivery and refit out of you then my reaction would be GFYS  ;D. Would also be worthing checking that the layovers (scheduled and unscheduled) would be possible with a boat without insurance.

Leaving aside the matter of boat being seaworthy (or not!) - what would concern me, both from a legal and a practical perspective is what happens to boat and to you if something breaks enroute and you make an unscheduled stop - will there be money available to fix the boat and / or to get you home by other means? and by "available" I mean cash you can lay hands on rather than relying on warm words......or will the boat fixing suddenly be seen as your problem  ::). I would also want my expenses up front - not just a promise of the boat being stocked with beans and rice.

On the legal side, you will need a letter of authorisation anyway (to explain why your name is different from the boat ownership papers) therefore I would include in this letter the basis on which the delivery is being made, making clear it is non-commercial / expenses only. I would also include that the Owner confirms he is solely responsible for both the boat and all expenses (repairs / incidents) that occur during the voyage and also indemnifies you agaiinst any claims. and that letter to include his home address and contact details (enough for someone else to both identify him and to send him a summons!). Won't cover you for every eventuality (on some things you could still be sued on own or jointly  - and if he has no cash then his indemnity would be worthless). and don't sign anything involving money - unless you have it under your control.

Just to clarify, I am not a lawyer (just by nature of past day job(s) done a bit of everything on the legal paperwork side, jack of all trades, master of none!) - but as I come from a place that is halfway accross the world that few in the US could find on a map then I feel fairly comfortable in offering the above - as it is NOT "advice".

[w00dy]

Looked up the regs:

Unlicensed operators can be compensated for delivery, as long as no paying passengers are involved.

I'm going to see where this goes. I'll keep you all updated.

Thanks for your thrilling and sensible anecdotes and advice.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Remember to let us know how it goes.........

.....all the gory details  ;D.

[Oldrig]

I agree with your decision. If you can get the owner to make sure that you've got a letter of authorization, that you are not liable for damage and that he has checked out critical systems on the boat, go for it.

I've had two delivery experiences, both as crew, and both for people I knew quite well.

One experience sucked, the other was terrific. It depended on how well we all got along. If you're doing this alone, that wouldn't be a problem.

Best of luck!

--Joe

[Snapdragon]

Speaking from recent experience, I am inclined to encourage rather than discourage you.
  About a month ago I petitioned a fellow sailfar member (Bonzai) to let me tag along while he and two of his friends moved his newly acquired Chris Craft 35 Sailyacht 175 miles up the East coast.  I had never met any of these gentlemen, and had no information about the condition or seaworthiness of the vessel.  My Daughter challenged my decision:  "Dad, you're going to sail an unknown boat in need of repairs across the Bermuda Triangle with three guys you met on the internet??  Really??
  I guess it's all about the adventure.  Some people like their lives all planned out, paid for, and guaranteed to be safe fun.  Some even buy "cruises" on big ships that cram 5000 people in one single hull.  I dunno', is that adventure?
  Sailing "Bonzai's" boat was indeed an adventure.  She'd been neglected for several years and most of her systems needed a bit of help.  She was sporting a complete set of new standing rigging by the time I got there though, and enough good running rigging to get us there.  The engine was kind of a unknown, but with a little tweaking and a pump change she seemed to do just fine.  In all, just enough of a challenge to give us a sense of accomplishment when we decided that she would probably make it, and put out to sea.
  The rest is history. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3635.0.html) 
I am very glad that I went on this little adventure.  I met some wonderful people and got to sail on a remarkable boat and gained some very valuable experience that would never have happened if I had said "No, I'd better not throw caution to the wind".
  Again, let me encourage you to pursue this adventure --- and if you need crew, send me a pm.

[w00dy]

Well, sorry to drum up a lot of nothing, but it looks as though this "venture" is not going to happen.  Not sure what is going on with this man. Our first conversation was positive and I was gearing up to do this, provided we could agree on some basic terms. However, our "communication" this week has not been inspiring.

After speaking with him for an hour or so the first time, I agreed to call back the next day after I had thought the matter over to discuss. It's been nearly a week, and every time I have gotten him on the phone since, he has promised to call back later. Twice when I called, he seemed to be drunk or medicated and was slurring his words to the point that I could barely understand him. I've got nothing against throwing back some drinks, but I don't want to be beholden or responsible to someone who can' follow through with a simple phone call. Glad I figured this out sooner rather than later.

Best to you all and let me know if you need some help moving a boat. I'm dying to get out of the house this summer.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I think a wise decision.

[Captain Smollett]

Wow, if you had not said wooden boat, I would say that I think I know that guy!   ;D  

Had a fellow that owned an Island Packet who wanted the boat moved down the coast a bit. A two day trip, tops, via the ICW (overnight if offshore).

As I got to know him better, I realized he would have been the 'client' from hades, which my wife had told me from the very beginning.  "Losing" that gig was a true blessing in disguise.  His drinking typically started around 10 am, and by mid-late afternoon he could hardly walk.  Yes, this was routine. And though he claimed to be a "former charter offshore fishing boat Captain," he sure seemed to not know much about the sea...as in pretty much nothing about operating a boat.

You could not have paid me enough to sail with him offshore...or the ICW for that matter.

[Oldrig]

Obviously a good move. Nothing worse than sharing a boat with a nutcase/drunk/junkie!

[Monovasia]

Good decision...remember always make sure you see proof of ownership before moving any vessel!!!!!

[w00dy]

LOL. Good point. Did you ever know of that happening to someone?

BTW, I posted a picture of the boat down in the "Boat names" thread. Check her out; she's a funny one.