Are you kidding me! 35# manson

[lastgreatgeneration]

First off I imagined this 35# manson supreme to be much smaller. This thing is HUGE! I pulled into the driveway and I see this massive piece of steel, and I was immediately convinced that I was sent a larger one by mistake. But I weighed it and its exactly 35#. This is going on a pearson ariel, I would feel comfortable sleeping on this hook though. So how can this thing look halfway normal hanging off the future bow roller? I honestly wouldn't feel normal carrying this thing down the docks to my boat! I got it for $330 with thanksgiving 15% off promo at WM.

Am I mad?



(sweatshirt for size reference)

-TD

[lastgreatgeneration]

To clarify and add to, How much chain spliced to rode? I was thinking 60' high test G4 chain spliced to 150' to 5/8" 3 strand rode. I will be single handing, so will this be too heavy? It appears on the anchor end I will use a 1/2" shackle, is this correct? I plan on installing a bow roller but not a windlass. Thoughts?

[s/v Faith]

Wow that is a lot of Anchor for an Ariel!

If you look around, there are some pictures of mine on the bow of my Ariel...  Smaller then yours, but still looks good (and large) on my bow...  And held me through a hurricane.  I would look up pictures, but I am getting underway in a few minutes from grand cay...

Great anchor though....

[Godot]

I ended up putting getting a 22 pound Rocna for my Bayfield 29, which I'm pretty sure is a bigger, heavier boat. The next step up to a 33 pounder was a 50% increase and, like you said, just seemed huge. The Rocna people seem to think that 22 pounds is enough for 50 knots of wind (plus associated surge). I was thinking of getting an oversized Manta (that breaks down for storage) when the time comes to cut the docklines...just in case I find myself anchored in hurricane conditions someday.

90' of 1/4" chain plus 200' of 1/2" plaited anchor line comes in around 82 pounds, including the bucket it is stored in (the whole set is sitting in my livingroom right now, so I put a luggage scale on it) Add 22# for the anchor and my primary system is 104 pounds. You would probably want 5/16" chain and 5/8" line. Without doing the math (I'm running out to work), with your shorter length of chain I'm guessing you will come out somewhere in a similar total weight of 100# or so. If you know someone around that weight have them stand on your bow and see what it does. Hopefully you will be able to route the chain lower than deck level and perhaps further back which will make things better.

It's a lot of anchor. If it digs in as well as claimed pulling that thing up might be a challenge. At least you will probably stay put in pretty much any reasonable conditions you find yourself in.

[Captain Smollett]

I use a 35 lb Manson in my Alberg 30. That's the better part of twice the Ariel's displacement, and it held last year in Hurricane Irene. Did have a Bruce down, too, as backup, but the Bruce drug and the Manson did not.

It's a lot of anchor even for A30 (though not too much) so I would think essentially a mooring for an Ariel.  ;D :P ;D

[CharlieJ]

On Tehani I used 75 feet of 1/4 G4 chain, which while it was plenty, on one or two occasions I wished for 100 feet. She carries a 22 pound Bruce, which I never had problems with, ever. Tehani and the Ariel are close to the same size.

Once that anchor sets, I don't think you'll move :D. As for hauling it, just shorten up hard and wait a bit- let the boat pull it loose. Or run over the rode and yank it out.



On my 35 foot trimaran, I used 100 feet of 5/16 chain (G4) and a 35 pound anchor, hauling by hand.

[lastgreatgeneration]

Well I'm 27 and in the best shape of my life, so yes I technically can handle it. But do I want to haul that thing up with mud every single day? I used the "one size up rule" and this is what I ended up with. It looks like a 1/2" shackle will fit on the anchor end and I will be getting a bow roller soon. I am a bit worried that this anchor will be a substitute for good seamanship. It might become a "drop it wherever solution, it will hold". But I plan on getting some good sleep at anchor and beaching or crashing my boat is the last thing I ever want to do.

I have another noob question about anchor shackles. Do shackled have to be "marine grade", I found high quality galvanized shackles at the local tractor supply, they even had beefy swivels. What is the difference, is there any? Also the bronze hardware is pretty handy too.

What can I build up the base of the bow roller with and is there some kind of ready made backing plates. I was thinking 4x4" or 4x6" x 1/2". I will be rebedding the hardwear and all of the backing plates, while what is on there currently is adequate they are different sizes. If only I could find a piece of aluminum block milled and cut to the size of the roller, but the dissimilar metals might cause corrosion. Am I over thinking this"

Thanks for the reply's.

-TD

[Captain Smollett]

I thought I was going up a size when I got 35 lb Manson for Gaelic Sea.

Don't underestimate how much mud you'll pull up with anchor.   ;)

[rorik]

......What can I build up the base of the bow roller with and is there some kind of ready made backing plates....

I am reinforcing the entire underside of my 2 x 10 oak plank bowsprit with a piece of 1/8" stainless notched around the backing plate for the forestay fitting. The bow rollers are through bolted.

You can never overthink it......  ;D

[CharlieJ]

Here's the one I built for Tehani. It's all full one inch Mahogany, and the close up has the bolts circled, that hold it to the deck. The roller is a yellow urethane trailer roller, running on a cut off 5/8 stainless bolt

[CharlieJ]

one more pic (because of the limits on size)

This roller setup has done just fine in several hard blows, during one of which we had the bow go under waves several times. Had all the chain out, plus about 40 feet of nylon. Glad the squall didn't last but an hour or so :o

[lastgreatgeneration]

Thanks for all of the great reply's, at this point I am considering taking it back to a west store. The nearest one is located in pittsburgh PA, about an hour away. Well should I keep it or take it back? I could use it a as a storm anchor or a temporary mooring but I think this thing on the bow with all of the chain is going to put the bow lower and I'm not sure how that is going to affect performance. another problem is stowage, It does not fold up or come apart but I am sure I can bury it somewhere in the boat. I just found out that I can take it back and swap out for the 25# for no extra charges, not even tax since there isn't a wm in my state. I am seriously thinking about doing that, thoughts? Should I keep and just buy the 25#?

I plan on voyaging far and will be anchored out a lot. So most of the time I defer to "better not need it and have it, than need it and not have it". I really liked that stainless steel plate that one guy had cnc machined out of solid stainless plate. My solution must be stout and budget friendly. I also see defender has a 22# claw on special for $45. I know a lot of people swear by them. So on a conservative budget, I could keep the 35# SUP and take the money saved and get the claw as well. Or like I said before I can do an exchange and just get the 25# SUP. Boating can be so complicated. At least we don't have just one choice in anchor like they had 70 years ago.

I bought that dodger from bacon sails! Now I just need to find someone in the bay area to build me a frame, anyone know a place that is reasonable?

[CharlieJ]

If it were me, I'd swap for the 25.

I've anchored all over the coast, from the tip of Texas, to Annapolis Maryland, and up the Potomac, and all over the Bahamas using that 22 pound Claw (Simpson Lawrence version of the Bruce) and have yet to drag. Had one case where it would NOT set- off Frazer Hog Key in the Berrys, and we had been told the bottom there was SO scoured it would be best to take a mooring, which we wound up doing. Was like trying  to anchor on a concrete slab >:(

One additional point- I carried three larger anchors aboard, of different types. I had a Danforth for the few times we did a Bahama Moor. While the Danforth is a superb anchor I would NOT trust a Danforth alone, but in tandem, they are great. Mine was a 12 pound hi-Tensile.

I also carried a 15 pound Northill in case I was forced to anchor in solid grass, but never deployed it.

I would never even consider leaving to go ANYWHERE, with just one anchor and full rode aboard. I have two complete setups on Necessity

[Godot]

If it were me, I'd return it and swap it out for the smaller anchor (I'm assuming you will get a refund of the difference). The 35 pounder would certainly provide peace of mind; but it will be harder to handle,  and need bigger, heavier, more expensive chain and line.

Once you get to Big Enough, anything extra is just extra weight and expense with a greater chance of injury and questionable extra benefit. While upsizing is generally considered the way to go for many anchor designs, it is my understanding the the Rocna/Supreme style anchor recommendations are pretty conservative and honest. At least I've heard no one complain.

The question, simply put, is 25 pounds big enough? For my 29 footer (8000 pounds design displacement) after a lot of going back and forth, I decided that the similar 22 pound Rocna was fine (Rocna claims it is good for a 30' boat up to 11,000 pounds in 50 knots of wind).  The bigger anchor is much bigger, and while I'm sure I could haul it up without a windlass, I am very protective of my back (back injuries are the worst!)...so, to go larger would entail the extra cost and weight of the larger anchor, chain, and windlass (which I may install eventually in any case...I really, really don't want another back injury...but at least now there is no rush).

There will be a second, and probably third, anchor and rode stowed aboard as well. I am considering something well oversized that breaks down for easier stowage. I won't be making that decision for at least another year, though.

[CharlieJ]

There will be a second, and probably third, anchor and rode stowed aboard as well. I am considering something well oversized that breaks down for easier stowage. I won't be making that decision for at least another year, though.

You REALLY should have a second anchor and rode fairly easily deployed. The main anchor should be ready to go overboard in an instant, and a second without a whole lot of effort. Being able to get the main anchor over in  less than 30 seconds saved my boat once.

But a large, break down OHMYGOD anchor isn't a bad idea either.

[lastgreatgeneration]

If it were me, I'd swap for the 25.

I've anchored all over the coast, from the tip of Texas, to Annapolis Maryland, and up the Potomac, and all over the Bahamas using that 22 pound Claw (Simpson Lawrence version of the Bruce) and have yet to drag. Had one case where it would NOT set- off Frazer Hog Key in the Berrys, and we had been told the bottom there was SO scoured it would be best to take a mooring, which we wound up doing. Was like trying  to anchor on a concrete slab >:(

One additional point- I carried three larger anchors aboard, of different types. I had a Danforth for the few times we did a Bahama Moor. While the Danforth is a superb anchor I would NOT trust a Danforth alone, but in tandem, they are great. Mine was a 12 pound hi-Tensile.

I also carried a 15 pound Northill in case I was forced to anchor in solid grass, but never deployed it.

I would never even consider leaving to go ANYWHERE, with just one anchor and full rode aboard. I have two complete setups on Necessity

Thanks, I ordered the 25# I will be picking it up next week sometime. The current setup is pretty common and "casual", 150' rope and about 20' chain with an old danforth.  I am dropping almost $800 in my main anchoring setup but I will have the former as a backup. I don't trust danforths at all, I will probably sell it and replace it with something more universal in various ground conditions. At least I have plenty of time to shop around for all this stuff before spring. I still may get the claw as a secondary.

Sometimes all of this seems a bit overwhelming, especially the boat needs other things. Like new running rigging, rebedded windows, new awlgrip and on top of that I want new oversize tandem cleats and the bow roller installed.

After I quit my job I should have plenty of time to work on all of these projects. Right now I am 5 hours away from the boat! The date is set and it is less than 6 months away until I'm living aboard.

[Godot]

BTW, the disagreement over how much chain is necessary is pretty comparable to all the anchor disagreements (although with less vitriol).

• All line. Not sure I'd go without at least little chain for chafe protection on a cruising boat.
• Six feet chain leader. Enough chain to help weigh down the shank a little and provide a bit of chafe resistance. So long as the rest of the rode doesn't lie on the bottom I guess it is all right (I know lots of people who go this way in the US without complaint, including myself at times in the muddy Chesapeake, although it goes against conventional wisdom and makes me uneasy).
• Length of Boat. Probably a good compromise.
• All Chain. Works well in windlass, great chafe protection, more catenary, very conservative and heavy.

Your 60' of chain sounds like a really good compromise length to me, although it doesn't exactly fall into the general categories above.

I decided to go with 90'. Well, I decided on 100'; but West Marine (while matching Defender prices, BTW) only had 90' (although since I mark my rode at 5 fathom increments, it is a pretty convenient length). With four feet of freeboard, I figure I can anchor at 7:1 all chain scope in eight feet of water (not unheard of for me...I have a 3.5' draft) and 5:1 all chain in 14' of water. Add the line and I'm good in 35' of water at 7:1 and better than 50' of water at 5:1. I figure that should cover me just about anyplace I am likely to end up without making the whole thing too heavy, and perhaps compensate a bit for deciding on the smaller anchor.  I figure that unless I'm in a very tight and shallow anchorage I'll probably drop all the chain and a few feet of line (or more if it is deep) for the shock absorbtion. Time will tell if I made the right choice.

[Godot]

There will be a second, and probably third, anchor and rode stowed aboard as well. I am considering something well oversized that breaks down for easier stowage. I won't be making that decision for at least another year, though.

You REALLY should have a second anchor and rode fairly easily deployed. The main anchor should be ready to go overboard in an instant, and a second without a whole lot of effort. Being able to get the main anchor over in  less than 30 seconds saved my boat once.

But a large, break down OHMYGOD anchor isn't a bad idea either.

The Rocna will live on the bowsprit so will be immediately available. I currently have a Danforth (not counting the one I'm replacing, which I suppose I could leave ready to go on the other side of the sprit) living in a locker below that could be deployed in probably three minutes at most. I may take my Fortress 11 from Godot and hang it as a stern anchor.

For an OHMYGOD anchor I am considering the Mantus 35, or perhaps even the 45# anchor (I'm not certain, even broken down, if I have room for that). They break down so should be easily stowable and appear to be very similar to the Rocna/Manson Supreme designs (although they recommend a larger sized anchor for my boat than Rocna which makes me go "hmmm"). I'm not rushing this choice, though. I still have a little over two years until I earn my freedom.

[CharlieJ]

I hope no one read my comments about Danforths as "I don't like  them". I love them- fantastic holding power in sand or softer mud. BUT- I don't trust them to reset on a  tidal change.  Seen 'em come up too many times with an oyster shell, or a beer can, wedged in the flukes, so they CAN'T rest. So I'll never go to sleep on a single Danforth.

Secondly-on the chain. I commonly use 75, to 100 feet of HI-TEST  (G-4) chain. It's lighter than proof coil or BBB and stronger. Here, on the Texas coast, we have these things called Oysters. And they are all over the place. And sharp! So I want enough chain down there so I don't have nylon dragging over them. Also in the Keys and Bahamas, there are bits of  coral, plus some oysters.

7-1 rode is nice to consider, but in many many anchorages where cruisers go, that's  dream. In many places, you'll be real lucky to get 5-1. Too many boats, not enough space.  That's why chain, because you can safely use less scope than with mostly nylon

Two years ago I spent a (stormy) month in Boot Key Harbor. With 459 other boats. It was TIGHT. THOSE are the times when the a second anchor, in a Bahama Moor, becomes a needed thing.

Now on my current 21 footer, I only have 30 feet. But it's 5/16 Hi-test, and the boat draws 2 feet. So I CAN anchor in less water and need less chain. Besides, it's a much lighter boat, and really can't carry the weight. I'd love 75 feet though, and when I can afford it, will probably change to 75 feet. And I think , for a traveling boat (we are all at least planning that?)
a boat length is a bare minimum.

And get used to washing mud off- enjoy it- it means good holding  ;D

Oh- and get a good chain hook, and rig a snubber

[marujo_sortudo]

There's all kinds of ideas on chain as Adam says.  Mimi Rose has cruised extensively from Canada to the Bahamas under her PO with her anchoring setup and I've lived on her anchors and rodes for over a year now.  Some light chafe does show up on the rodes from time to time in the first 30' or so after the 9' chain leader.  This is very rare and light so far and I plan on end-for-ending the rode and then maybe even chopping the ends off if the sun and sea haven't aged the extra long nylon rode too much.  I am very happy with this setup and rest securely on it.  Chain certainly has advantages with chafe protection, but I find the ease with which we can set and retrieve our anchors greatly enhances my feeling of safety regarding personal injury, esp. if there is a sea state to contend with. I find the lower scope argument for chain to be a dangerous one, as it fails you when you need it most (in high winds and surge conditions) but builds confidence in low scope anchoring in normal conditions.  This seems like disaster waiting to happen when unforecast weather arrives.  I've never anchored with less than 5:1 scope myself (usually around 5.5 - 6).  Sometimes, I've accomplished this by using 2 anchors in tiny/crowded anchorages.  Other times, I've gotten out my dinghy and sounding pole out and scouted out an empty spot that isn't too obvious.  If I can't do that, I leave.  YMMV, of course.