Gennaker

[gregorygraham]

Sail Far Folk,

This question has been burning in my mind, which is odd given that my new boat was just hauled out and I won't be able to sail until early May.  In any event, I just bought a new (old) boat that included not just a symmetrical spinnaker, but an asymmetrical or gennaker or drifter (or whatever you want to call it).  It is a very large headsail with no hanks.  I noticed that on the tack of the sail is a length of rope, about 4 or 5' long.  I assume this is used to attach the tack of the sail to the bow of the boat ahead of the forestay.  The boat has no bowsprit.  There is an anchor roller in front of the attachment for the forestay/furler.  (See attached photo).

Does anyone have any suggestions about how and where to attach the tack of the gennaker to the bow?

[Captain Smollett]

Where do you attach any other headsail?  it looks like that block is for the headsail attachment (maybe below?); that pennant should attach as any other headsail or spinnaker.

For what it's worth on terminology, I use the term "drifter" to specifically mean a large genoa cut headsail but of very light weight (like 2 oz nylon, for example) rather than a heavier "cruising genoa" would have.  It has hanks, but can be set flying as well if off the wind.

A drifter is essentially a light air genoa, cut in a way that makes it useful upwind.

To my mind, gennakers and asymmetrical spinnakers are cut differently and not for use with the wind higher than the beam.

Now, none of that may be how others use the terms, but that's how I've used them in communication with sail makers who also used them the same way (ie, we communicated).  

Not trying to be pedantic on terminology so much as throwing it out there for discussion.  We are in need of a good "Debate."   ;D

[gregorygraham]

Captain,

The block in the photo is aft of the forestay attachment.  I assume that block is there for a downhaul halyard for the jib (before the furler was added). 

As the sail I'm talking about has no hanks and is flown in front of the forestay, I'm assuming I need to attach the tack ahead of the forestay.

[Captain Smollett]

Ok. It looked like the block leads below. I was thinking that there are rigs that have a jib pendant leading below like that, but I'd be hard pressed to imagine a use on a cruising boat.

Does it really matter on an asymmetrical sail if you tack it behind the stay? Hoist with regular jib halyard rather than spin halyard...should fly free ok I'd think.  That's how drifters are rigged, even when unhanked for ofc the wind.

Any chance to ask the PO how he rigged the sail?

[CapnK]

If there is a cleat on centerline just aft of the stem fitting, it could be that the 4-5' long pennant on the gennaker gets led *thru* that block, then cleated off as an attachment point...?

[gregorygraham]

CapnK, you could be right.  I'll check that this weekend.

Captain Smollett,  "Does it really matter on an asymmetrical sail if you tack it behind the stay?"  I don't know.  I'm interested in everyone's viewpoint.  I had thought best to fly it in front of the forestay, but I could be wrong.  The previous owner never once used either spinnaker apparently.  I was amazed when I heard that, but, hey, I guess not everyone is a big sail junkie.

[CapnK]

I would think that with the small distance 'tween that block (if pennant anchors there) and the forestay, and given the 4-5' length of the pennant, that the tack would be well clear of the forestay when flown. Likely clear of the bow pulpit as well, if you have one.

Leading the pennant to one side or the other of the forestay to affect how it flies might be a bit of 'strategery', too - using where it crosses the stay as a "stop" of sorts to help keep the tack in a couple feet closer when using the sail higher on the wind, and vice versa...

[CharlieJ]

I've always flown an assymetric from in front of headstay and from a spinnaker halyard, if for no other reason than that lets you gybe the thing AROUND in front of the headstay. Need double sheets for that of course.

Other than that, I can't see it making a lot of difference. On Necessity I'd probably tack it aft of the headstay.

[rorik]

I have a North Sails G0 (that's gzero) on my CD28. It's an asymmetrical spinnaker in 1.5oz nylon.
It's flown free, on a short pendant, aft of the forestay so that double sheets are not needed.
My guess is that your sail is flown in the same manner and that your longer pendant is actually a cunningham of sorts to adjust the luff tension.

[gregorygraham]

Thank you for your thoughts gentlemen.  I'm dying to get this sail up and flying.  I'll snoop around the foredeck again this weekend while I'm at the marina to put a tarp on the boat and will report back.

[Cruiser2B]

Captain,

The block in the photo is aft of the forestay attachment.  I assume that block is there for a downhaul halyard for the jib (before the furler was added). 

As the sail I'm talking about has no hanks and is flown in front of the forestay, I'm assuming I need to attach the tack ahead of the forestay.

I use my downhaul as a tack for my Asy Spinnaker, works like a champ and since its already run to the cockpit I can adjust it depending on the point of sail, tighter to the bow when close to beam and further out when more downwind.

[gregorygraham]

An interesting technique Cruiser B2.  I'll keep that in mind.  Below is a photo of the foredeck I took this past weekend.  I reckon the drifter tack could be run through the block and cleated off to one of the two deck cleats (or, as suggested by Cruiser B2, attached to a downhaul).

And yes, that is snow on the deck.  Frightful sight, eh?

[Cruiser2B]

I ran my downhaul all the way back to cockpit with stanchion mounted fairleads. At the base of the stanchion closest to my primary winch i mounted a block to turn it into the cockpit. I only fly the asy spin about once a year so 99% of the time its a downhaul. at the bow I mounted a block to the stem head of the boat. It is actually inside of the bowrail. When I use the Asy spin I just make sure to route the line outside of the bowrail when I attach the tack. I can get you some pics if you can wait a few days-week....judging by the snow...you might have a couple of days anyway.

[gregorygraham]

Some pics would be great Cruiser2B.  And, yes, alas, I have many days to wait :(

[gregorygraham]

I have just found an interesting Youtube video where what looks to be a regular spinnaker pole is used as a bowsprit.  Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cCmc1y3Ms

The pole is lashed to the cleats on the foredeck.  It seems to work in this video, although I'd be concerned the sprit would stay in place if the wind were stronger than in this video.  In any event, looks interesting.  Has anyone tried this?

[CharlieJ]

I would NOT try that here on the Texas coast, except maybe in the dead of winter, right after a front.

Do  it in our normal air and you'd have a VEE shaped pole, because the outboard end would bend up. NOTHING to counter act the upward force on it.

[gregorygraham]

Does the rope lashing it to the deck not provide the counteracting force?

[CharlieJ]

Talking about the upward force vector from the lashing forward. ALL the pull of the chute would act on that end. Best be a really beefy pole to stand that.

[Captain Smollett]

Do you need/want a bowsprit?  What's the point?

With a large downwind sail, the center of effort is already well forward and it's not like adding a sprit for this purpose can be used to increase sail area.

Notice how the name of the youtube video is "How NOT to rig an asymmetrical spinnaker"?

{my emphasis}

Beware of overthinking attachment of your sail.

It's asymmetrical, so there is no NEED for it to fly forward of the stay.  None.  Use your existing headsail halyard.

You have a pendant and an attachment point - through the block to a cleat.  Adjust the pendant to give the luff tension you want.  You don't need/want a super tight luff on a running sail.  You are not pointing with a gennaker.

Gype it like you would if it were just a big genoa.

No fuss, no muss.  What could be easier?

This is a KISS site...and we often emphasize that simpler is better.  Overcomplicating your sail attachments will very likely cause problems, probably at the worst possible time (increasing winds, single handing, whatever).

[gregorygraham]

I stand embarrassed.  No, I didn't notice the title was "How NOT to rig . . . . ".  It did strike me as pretty unorthodox.  Thanks Captain.