Anchors, anchors again, & more anchors....

[AdriftAtSea]

My point was that since Manson does have a history of copying other anchors, it is far more likely that they copied the Rocna, not the other way around.  There are some significant design differences between the two, primarily in construction and manufacturing.  That said, the next gen anchors, like the Manson Supreme, Rocna and Buegel are going to be far superior to a lot of other anchors, like the Danforth, CQR and Bruce, in more varied conditions.  Anyone seriously thinking of spending a lot of time on the hook would be well advised to look at getting a next gen anchor for use as their primary.

[Frank]

  All I have to say is.... " I like eggs " ....and my delta  ...and my danforth... and ice cream :o

[Frank]

I love these anchor "talks"  Ford is better than Dodge...but what about those GM's...and have ya seen Toyota's new full size truck...WOW.  Bottom line...thee best anchor is one  YOU have experience with...CONFIDENCE in..are totally familiar with, know how to set it and have enough history with that ya can sleep at night!!!!  I would not be without my delta. Blew 35+ today...held like glue.Yet I'd never leave without a danforth style here in the Bahamads. I am familiar with both..know how to launch each and am comfortable with them. Others may hate them...have horror stories etc. ( what size was the anchor/boat,how much chain,how did they launch it...set it etc ) There are SO many variables...I don't care what ANYONE uses...just get to know it..where it holds well...where it doesn't...how to launch and set it. Only then can ya be in on wifi with 35 knots and knot (had to do it)  worry. I spend over 3 mths per year 'on the hook'. They all work...they all fail....most often = "human error"

[AdriftAtSea]

One thing that is really frightening is watching some of the powerboaters around here anchor.  They've got boats with flybridges and that are significantly heavier than my boat with much more windage, and they're dropping a 12-14 lb. Danforth as the only anchor they'll be using... that just terrifies me... especially if they're downwind or to the side and I know the wind is going to be shifting later in the evening. 

[s/v Faith]

Frank (as usual) makes a good point.  The proper deployment of an anchor, and the right rode as probably as important.

  Awful lot of people stayed put for years and years with those terrible old standard anchors that the modern marketing says should never have set.

[Cmdr Pete]

Another good thing about small boats--even a comparatively large anchor is still manageable.

Here's another question....

You want to retrieve the anchor singlehanded in nasty conditions--windy, strong current.

So, you fire up the engine to hunt down the anchor, motoring slowly forward. Then you go to the foredeck to pull up the rode. Problem is, the boat won't steer itself toward the anchor and the Tillerpilot can't handle the manuever. Now you're on the foredeck trying to haul the boat fighting the wind, current, engine and the anchor.

I think I might be better off back in the cockpit pulling in the rode from there while steering the boat, then go up to the foredeck to get the last of it.

Any other thoughts?

One anchoring story:

I anchored the boat about 100 feet from shore to do some fishing. Came time to raise the anchor and it just wouldn't come up. Could only pull in about a foot at a time. I thought I must have snagged something on the bottom. Eventually I ran the line back to a winch. Finally got the anchor up to see a bunch of fishing line around it. I look on shore and there's a surf fisherman madly fighting what he thinks is a giant fish.

Took a while to sort it out. Not my fault. I was there first.

   

[Captain Smollett]

I think I might be better off back in the cockpit pulling in the rode from there while steering the boat, then go up to the foredeck to get the last of it.

I've done it that way on my little boat.  Deploy and retrieve from the cockpit.  One difference, though, on that boat I keep the anchor in the cockpit.  There's a line lead from forward, outside all rigging, to the cockpit.  When I get ready to anchor, I tie that line tot he rode and drop the hook.  Retrieve from the cockpit, untie the line and stow the anchor.

So, it's a little bit different scenario with fairly light ground tackle (compared to what would be on a 25-30 footer).

But what you are describing could be made to work.

[AdriftAtSea]

Of course, if you have a decent windlass, bringing up the rode isn't too much trouble, even if it is a manual one.  :)  The tricky part is when the anchor is still hanging in the water, but the anchor has been broken free from the bottom... you'll be blowing down or being pushed by the current... then you'll have to run back to the cockpit to goose the throttle and turn on the tiller pilot... then when the engine is going and the boat can handle the wind/current with the engine throttled up a bit... go forward and finish hauling in the anchor. :)

[Fortis]

I saw an interesting variation on this technique that led to ...issues once.

in Tasmania. The Huon river has it's main flow, and then there is a little cove that has a contrary (though gentle) flow. The result is that you see the odd sight of boats swinging at anchor at 90degrees to each other depending on whether they are in the cove or the edge of the main river flow.

Anyway, someone coming out of the cove did exactly what Drifty mentioned. Lifted the anchor just off the bottom and raced back to get out into the main river where he would have time to finish the job...Pity he snagged at least one boat's anchor chain that was at 90degrees to him in the main flow as he was departing...things got a little interesting and heated...as he broke the other boat's anchor free and they both went off down river, tangled and yelling to wind up on the soft mud of the banks...

The guy that had tangled the other boat lost his nerve and did the predictable thing of powering down. This was a mistake. It would have been better to tow the other boat into the main channel and then (given the other owner was on board) taken the time to untangle while in clear water.


Personally, the pedal activated windlas that needs constant pressure to work irritates me almost more then not having a windlas at all. I know its a safety thing....But when mine goes in, it will have some sort of switch instead of a button.

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

:D That must have been a bit interesting to watch... how did it all end up???

[Fortis]

Like I said...In the soft black and very sticky mud of the banks.

A tinny came out from the crusing yacht club anchorage across the river and took the anchor line of one of them, followed it to the cluster f*%$* where the two anchors tangled, the guys on board turned the colour of the river bank untangling them, Then they used the anchour chain (I think. I was watching form the bank a fair way away) to tow first one, then the other back into real water.

What I know for sure is that all three boats needed a serious wash afterwards!

The one that got "Collected" was back at anchor by the time we got home from shopping.

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

Where's a video camera when you need one? :)

[Dave]

Assuming that all holding ground is not equal, and that different anchors have different positives & negatives to offer,  I'm wondering if there are any rules of thumb relating to weight of an anchor vs length/displacement of the boat?  Any ideas will be appreciated-

[dnice]

Here is some info from one of John Vigor's books. (The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat)

"An everyday (fisherman style) anchor should weigh 2 pounds for every 1 foot of waterline length.
But a storm anchor should be two sizes bigger"

He also has a table that shows sizing info for plow type anchors.

waterline vs. plow type anchor

up to 21ft = 11lb
22-25ft = 22lb
26-30ft = 25lb
31-40ft = 35lb
note: he does not mention displacement anywhere in the chapter...

disclaimer: I don't have any opinion on this subject, I am just relaying what John Vigor says about it because I have the book on hand...  8)

[Tim]

Directly proportional to how heavy you want to sleep ;)

Most suppliers offer charts for each style anchor (there will be differences) and I would go one up from what they suggest.

[Lynx]

Not all anchors hold the same either. I have an 18 pound anchor and has held me in 45 knots winds, not much chop. Your choice. See what is recommended for your boat and what you can handle.

Please note that when the wind blows all the chain will be off the bottom.

Everybody likes the one that they have. As said above, there is no 1 perfect anchor for all bottom conditions. Start with one in your main cruising area.

[CharlieJ]

 :D The smart a$$ answer is- five pounds lighter than the heaviest one you can haul back aboard.

Seriously- first- you should have at least two and better yet, three anchors aboard, all with separate rodes. Those anchors should not be all the same kind.  Because not all anchors will work in all bottoms. Places where a danforth type won't work ( grass, shell) a plow or Bruce style will.

I lived aboard a 35 foot trimaran for several years and during the last year aboard , the boat never touched a dock or mooring- we were always on our own anchors. Plus several cruises aboard Tehani that covered about half of the Gulf coast.

Here's what we carry on Tehani when sailing around here. Some specs- Tehani is 17'9" on the waterline, 25 foot over all, displaces 5300 empty and we figure just a tad over 7000 loaded for cruising with a full fuel, water and stores load aboard.

On the bow is a 22 pound Claw by Simpson Lawrence- that's their version of the Bruce. That rode has 75 feet of 1/4 G4 chain and 200 feet of 1/2 inch nylon.

Our second anchor is a 12 pound Hi-Tensile Danforth with 25 feet of 1/4 G4 chaiin and another 200 feet of 1/2 nylon.

When we were on one trip to Florida we spent a fairly rough night  anchored off Ship Island, Mississippi Sound, when the wind went west ( taking away our lee) and blew in the mid to upper  20s. We took a breaking wave over the bow twice that night. I was riding to the Claw and about 60 feet of chain with a 20 foot nylon snubber, I spent a couple long hours sitting in the companionway watching the shore, but we never moved.

When we go away form here, our home bay, I add a 15 pound folding Northill 25 more feet of chain and a 150 foot 5/8 nylon rode.

The Northill is for when we MUST drop on grass, etc, where the Danforth has no prayer of holding.

I like bigger anchors, lots of chain and lots of rode available, You really need more than one, because if you travel on the boat, sooner or later you're gonna lose one of your anchors.

One other point- I will never, ever, no way, no how, lay to a single Danforth, no matter HOW big it is, in a reversing current situation. Meaning someplace where the tide will change during the night so the anchor is forced to reset. I DO NOT trust a Danforth style anchor to reliably reset, particularly in heavy mud or mud laced with shell. I've seen them come up too many times with the flukes locked on one side jammed with mud, so they could not swap side. The anchor simply cannot reset with the flukes locked upwards. I also wouldn't lay to the Northill by itself in that situation- the upward pointing fluke can catch the rode and the anchor can pull out.

I would lie to a Bruce, Claw, CQR or Delta- I've found both the CQR and the Bruce style to reset quite reliably.

now, all that having been said, there is much being said about the newer anchors- the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Bulagwa, etc. I simply have no experience with them, so cannot comment. The reports look good, and I'm really tempted, but what I have has worked for many many nights at anchor, from Annapolis around to the south coast of Texas, so I'm reluctant to change, just for change. If we lose an anchor and I have to replace, then I'll seriously consider the newer styles.

And by the way- our 22 pound claw is what they call for on up to a 35 footer I believe. It's about the heaviest thing Laura can get off the bottom by herself

Finally- I also own a pair of 20 pound Hi-tensile Danforths. If there was anyway I could fit one of those aboard when cruising, I'd do so- but they are simply physically too large to stow aboard our boat.  ;)

[Frank]

Oh NO....not the 'anchor talk' again  :o  Just remember "size DOES matter" with anchors ;)

[Lynx]

It seams that Anchors come under Religion with cruisers. So much hype by the makers make it hard to make up one's mind.

Learning what is a good set and staying with the boat during storms until one really knows what your anchor does is a must. In the book "Tropical Cruising" the author says, I think, that it takes 6 months full time cruising to get good at anchoring, everybody else is "green" no matter how much study, training or weekends on the water.

I have seen all anchors on cruising boats.

[AdriftAtSea]

When the guys at the marina start laughing about the size of your anchor being too big for your boat, you're in the right neighborhood.

Seriously, you do need at least three anchors aboard if you're planning cruising long term, each with some chain and rope for a rode.  While it does depend to some degree on what size your boat is, there are certain minimums IMHO.  Going with less than 1/2" line for the anchor rode strikes me as somewhat foolish on a cruising boat, even a pocket cruiser.  Not having at least a boat length of chain also strikes me as somewhat foolhardy. The chain on larger boats is there to create a catenary curve in the rode and help keep the loads on the anchor more horizontal. On smaller boats like ours, the chain is really there mainly for abrasion resistance.  Rocks, coral, junk on the bottom, can all chafe through an all rope rode rather quickly.

On the Pretty Gee, the primary anchor is a Rocna 15, 33 lbs. It has 60' of chain and 200' of 5/8" octo-plait nylon.  A bit overkill for a 27' 6" LOA boat with a 26' 3" waterline but the boat is 18' wide.  :) One sailor I know, who is extremely conservative about anchoring, uses the same setup with more chain for his CS36T.

The secondary anchor is a Delta FastSet 22.  I chose the Rocna and the Delta FastSet as the primary and secondary based on their holding characteristics...both are a bit of a pain to stow though. :)  The Delta has 30' of chain and 180' of 5/8" three-strand. 

The last anchor I usually have aboard is a 14 lb. Danforth.  It is on 30' of chain and 150' of 5/8" octo-plait.  It is primarily a lunch hook, and generally used as a stern anchor. 

Anchoring a multihull like mine has some considerations that may not apply to a monohull.  If an anchor pulls out of the bottom in any kind of wind, the boat can often be moving too fast for it to properly reset.  This is especially true of "fluke" designs like the Danforth or the Fortress, since once the boat is moving with any speed, they will plane.  They should never be used in a reversing tide or wind situation by themselves. 

As for ground tackle, I think you really need to have decent ground tackle on even a small cruising sailboat.  It just makes life easier.  Here's a photo of my groundtackle setup:



The original ground tackle setup had a single 6" cleat.  The upgraded setup has substantially larger bow chocks, rubstrakes, two 10" cleats, a windlass and bow roller.

One note, having used a Rocna anchor for almost three seasons now... I can safely say that the rumors of greater holding power and setting ability are not exaggerated.  I've nearly lost my bowman over the pulpit several times due to the anchor setting so quickly and deeply.  The only complaint I have with the Rocna is that it tends to bring up 30 lbs. of mud every time we retrieve it... and we generally leave it about two feet down for a few minutes to wash off the mud.