Sailing Club ??

[Seadogdave]

Slip rent is getting tough to justify at $150/month, considering my limited income and the amount of time I actually get to spend at my boat (Catalina 27).  I'm not yet ready to toss in the towel, especially after all of the cruising improvements I've made on the vessel.  For years I have toyed with the idea of involving a few other people and forming a club, with hopes of breaking even or in the best case scenario meeting all of my expenses  and sharing a nice boat with others that can appreciate it.  So ........ my latest idea would be:

1)  Experienced sailors only (a resume of experience) 2) $75 to join the club includes a weekend of sailing on the boat with me to get familiar with the boat and the waters (Urbanna, Chesapeake Bay area), 3) $75 for any available weekend or two day reservation (includes night before sleep over on boat), 4) Longer reservations would include an increased cost, 5)  I, as the owner, will continue to own and maintain the boat, and can cancel anyone from the membership or suspend the whole plan.  I would make a basic contract with some basic rules (similar to charter companies).

I think I realize the risks, especially with a boat.  I have minimal insurance (liability) and probably wouldn't change it unless I have to.  I once looked into bare-boat charter insurance for my boat and couldn't find any - maybe because the boat is a 1975.  Finding the right people - I'm thinking maybe three good sailors - would be the key to success. 

Am I being too idealistic with all of this (living in this litigious world that we do)?  Has anyone tried something like this?  In my present life situation, it isn't time yet to sail off into the sunset (only for shorter ventures).

[Captain Smollett]

I would think most people looking at that deal would think something along the lines of, "For that amount of money, I could slip my own boat and have no use restrictions." Two uses a month = a full month slip rental?

I've looked at TONS of ways to try to get my boat(s) to make money.  It is VERY difficult to get the finacials to work out in way that suits the proposed market.

May post some more thiughts later when on real keyboard.

[matt195583]

Mate I can sympathize with you on the slip fees, I am paying $520 a month here on the east coast of Australia.  >:(

[Capt. Tony]

Mate I can sympathize with you on the slip fees, I am paying $520 a month here on the east coast of Australia.  >:(

Wow! Do you get mineral rights with that payment?

Captains, I am always trying to think of a way to get paid for what I like to do.  But I am hesitant to involve a personal boat for fear that may taint the waters, if you will.  It is tough to think outside the box and when we see a great idea I commony say, "That's so simple.  I should've thought of that!"  Never give up, they say :-\..

[Seadogdave]

Oh geeze - glad I have sympathetic colleagues in the same boat, so to speak.  I've had several ideas before, but do circles in my head with it every time, thinking of all of the pitfalls and why it won't work.  Another option is that I may have a shot at a low rent mooring if I pursue it.   But then I loose one of the best spots in the marina with a big dock, won't see a close friend as often, and then have a wife to deal with without a swimming pool on those steaming days of summer!  Maybe I'm best to keep coming up with the money through my land pursuits as I have been.  I just hate to pay rent for anything!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Slip rent is getting tough to justify at $150/month, considering my limited income and the amount of time I actually get to spend at my boat (Catalina 27).  

I think the idea is worth looking at further - FWIW, I was thinking of doing something kinda similar over here, except with a couple of small boats and a charitable angle (for low and no income folks), but that idea has been put on hold due to economic realities!

Anyway, my idea was to use the model that seems to work in Canada - a couple of links here:-

http://www.barnetsailing.bc.ca/v/227232
http://www.cruising.bc.ca/co-ops.html

Here in Jersey (UK - ish!) boat ownership divided into 64 shares, dunno whether the same in the US? The plan was to have the boats owned in partnership, with each person owning only 1 share and that only to avoid any problems with being seen as a commercial charter operation (the rest of the shares - likely the majority would be owned by the Charity, even though not neccessary for control).  The boat shares would be sold at ?1 each, but with the Charity (me!) having the option of buying the share back each year for the same figure ? with a max duration of 3 years albeit that could get renewed.

The boats would be owned under a Partnership Agreement (a fairly common method of sharing boat ownership), with the Charity (me!) acting as the Manager (controller! who gets to implement and enforce the Agreement) and the terms that each person could use the boat being set out, as well as their responsibilities. I had not exactly nailed down the terms, but was thinking along the lines of entitled to 1 day a month at weekends (subject to booking ahead and on a Taxi Q basis), plus any other days the boat was free. My target market would likely have lots of free time mid-week.

Of course over here the sailing season not year round, so looking at 4 (maybe 5?) months of use ? and therefore what folks would effectively be paying for, even though the boat costs would of course be year round.

The bit nicked from the Canadians was that each owner (in addition to paying an annual contribution to sailing costs) would commit to a minimum number of hours for maintenance - could be regular, could be a group weekend.

In regard to the costs charged - the Canadians seem to go for a (non-refundable) buyin sum to the club (not for the boat itself), so if someone walks after a year or end of the first summer instead of the 3 years not such a PITA and in addition there is an annual or monthly cost. A bit convoluted and I had not quite nailed it down into something that would work, at least not fpr my intended target market.

Anyway, not sure if any of the above of use???.

[Seadogdave]

Thanks for the links and sharing your idea.  I wonder what the Canadian deal costs to buy in?  If I ever do pull off the idea of a Sailing Club, my hope is to keep it very simple (KISS principal), informal, and with just a couple of other people.  I don't want to get bogged down with it all.  I thought $75/ for an extended weekend because it's way cheaper than chartering, way cheaper than a hotel, and it's in a pretty nice location.  My target group would be those that can't afford a boat or that it's not practical for them.  I believe that for many or most people, , life is busy, and they can only spend one weekend a month at the boat anyway.

Every other aspect of life I've been able to have it pay for itself.  I think this should be able to as well.  But $520 a month in Australia - that gives me perspective!  I hope that includes free breakfast in bed.

[Captain Smollett]

My target group would be those that can't afford a boat

The problem is that a boat itself is a tangible asset that does not lose a lot of value.  If someone buys a 20 year old boat to use a few weekends a year, then discovers it's not for them, selling it recoups the purchase price...or very nearly so.  Used boats just don't depreciate much more than they already have. An A-30 purchased for $15,000 five years ago would easily sell for that now if well maintained during that time.  I paid $2800 for my trailer boat (with trailer and ob) over ten years ago, and could sell for that today...I've had offers. 

Therefore, I don't think offering a deal that essentially the same as operational costs on one's own boat but with drastically limited use is going to be seen as a win.

$75 a weekend might work if you are selling the whole package...a "vacation."  That's what charters really are in most places.  It's not money for the boat, it's for the whole enchilada....the boat, the location, weather, the experience.

I'm just giving my thoughts...not trying to be a naysayer.  It just sounds to me like you are 'selling' the idea to a weekend casual user for essentially the same operational cost they'd have on their own boat, so what's the up side?

Of course, that does not mean folks won't go for it.  Just remember, a small donation to sailfar.net from your first million would be in order!   ;D

[Tim]

I would have to agree with Smollett, given the amount of ads I see in SF Bay for sailboats to share. Perhaps if the boat was located in the islands somewhere there might be takers.

[s/v Faith]

Mate I can sympathize with you on the slip fees, I am paying $520 a month here on the east coast of Australia.  >:(

wow.  that is a lot of money.

if a partnership keeps you on the water, then i hope it works for you.

i am in the virgin islands now, one of the crew ii had abord had two boats on partnersip and had issues like taking votes on various maintence actions and hiving to ix phantom problems each time he wanted to use the boat...  not for me.

seems picking the right folks 3 or 4 as you say and clearly defining the relationships will be key.

good luck.