Refrigeration, Engel users, and others.....

[SalientAngle]

Sorry for the wall of text, but I think it's very relevant to living without refrigeration. 

very valid, but, as a nematologist specializing in genetic origins of parasitism, I could post an entire "wall" on these subjects... cheers !!!

[jotruk]

I have sailed very little on the ocean on a small boat but when I did we used freeze dried meat and other dried  canned food from a site called emergency essentials. It is a little expensive but it doesn't take all that long to reconstitute the dried meat and other food and it taste very good. I enjoy a cold glass of water and a cold beer or other adult beverage . the question is would I take a refer on a smaller boat and the answer  is yes I would but I don't have to have one. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Grime]

Can't believe Grime's claims on how hard living without a fridge is.

Obviously, I'm having a Missoula moment, but, marujo, are we reading the same prose???

[/quote]I can't for the life of me find where I said how hard living without a fridge is.  Since I've been refereed to again I'll try to get my feeling straight.  A fridge on a boat in a home, RV or out back in the shed is personal choice. I frankly don't care. I stated that when we go cruising we will have a fridge. That is my personal choice. I spent 7 days on a boat with no way to cool my food. It would take me 2 hours to eat though a tube in my stomach instead of drinking it.  I also made the comment as to suffer. That was a bad choice of word. It should have been primitive. If you want to sail, live in a house or what ever with out  a fridge or A/C I don't care. 

For you that say put it down in the bilge that would be great but here the water temp is pushing 90 or more and in the winter it is still to warm to keep anything in the bilge. They wade fish here year round.

I'm no scientist but drop on down to Mexico and just drink the water. How about eating from the street carts.  I rest my case on wanting a fridge on my boat.

[Sooner]

Frank - noted you said 135w panel pulled your engel well.  Is this actual or calculated?  at what ambient temp?
I've used an engel marine 40 for a couple years now and love it - but charge 2 grp 29 batteries as when needed and only trailer sail up to a week or so at a time.  Was kind of wondering what actualls were - thinking of installing a panel and leaving the 1 KW gen to home.
jim, Sooner

[Frank]

It is niether actual or calculated  ;D  my 90 watt panel worked well on sunny days and had no problems keeping our engel going using 2 100amp hour batteries. When I purchased the 90 watt panel, they had 135's on sale as well. On days with variable clouds I always wished I had gotten the 135.....hense my comment. Hope that helps. I think Craig ran his off a 100

[cap-couillon]

Have never had the luxury of refrigeration. Always something else that needed the $1000 spent on it. For me it just costs too much in installation plus care and feeding.  1000 bucks will buy a lot of ice.

That being said, the hardest  decision I have to make when porting in is what I want first....  Cold beer or hot shower. 

[Sooner]

Thanks Frank - practical information beats spec sheets every time.  A cold beam & coke will smooth out many a hard day...
jim

[marujo_sortudo]

Just to be clear, I don't mean to discount any concerns with certain foods being kept at warm temperatures, spoilage, etc.  Obviously, this becomes more and more of a concern the closer to the tropics you get.  That said, in most cruising grounds and even for week long offshore passages, this can be dealt with just as effectively with ice as with a fridge.  Whatever works for you and your boat is fine.  If ice isn't available or your fridge is broken (both of which are not uncommon occurrences,) then you have some choices to make, and in any case, the more you know about storing food simply and safely the better off you'll be.  At the very least, you'll be able to figure out which foods store better outside your fridge and use it more effectively.

Grime, I was mainly reacting to your claims about people having to throw away large amounts of food, or eating poorly.   This isn't necessary nor have I met anyone without a fridge that's been throwing out lots of food or getting sick.  Some planning, cooking talent, and know-how is all that's needed.  Is it nice to have a fridge that works, sure.  Heck, I'd like one that made ice!  We don't have the power budget for it, though, and wouldn't want to run the engine every day for the fridge's sake.  Even when we run out of ice, we eat very, very well aboard and throw out very little food.  YMMV, of course.

[Grime]

marujo_sortudo  I was just making a point about catching a large fish with only two on board with no way to save the uneaten part. I don't recall saying that people throw out large amounts of food or eating poorly or unhealthy. Even tho I've seen some live of a breakfast bar for days. Each to their own.

I know full time cruisers that run a generator or have large solar panels to run all their electrical requirements. I'm not talking about power hungry units for us or anyone. A Engle only pull 2.5 amps same with the ARB frig. Sure you have the cost of the unit.

We are not really experience cruisers. We spent 60 day going to N.O. and back. Also a number of short cruises.

With out a frig we did throw out some foods. Why? Because Lisa has to cook for one 90% of the time. It is hard for me to eat solid foods. Cancer does wonders to you. If we had something more than an ice chest she could have re heated most things.

I have read articles and articles about food storage and handling. I read another one just the other day. She had pictures of her bilge where she stored her can foods. She also talked about raising 2 kids and cruising for years without a fridge. It is easy to feed a family of 3 or 4 with no leftovers. There was a time when in this family a batch of cookies were gone just as soon as they came out of the oven. Now they get stale because only one can eat them. 

On our Starwind 22 we had no bilge and now on our Watkins 27 the bilge is the size of a match box. So there is no way to store items that need a cooler area for storage. I have a hard time finding places to store cases and cases of Boost.

I invested in solar that will carry our electrical need for under $300.  I can afford the $800 for a ARB where most have bills to pay and I don't.

Each person has their on personal needs. Sometime we assume that everyone is like us and we tend to try and teach them without all the cards.  I've read the books I've done some cruising so I know what works for us.

[cap-couillon]

Disclaimer:
Aside from contaminants, raw seafood can also be the vector for various pathogens, viral, bacterial, as well as larger parasitic creatures. According to the 2009 Food Code published by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), specific microbial hazards in ceviche include: Anisakis simplex, Diphyllobothrium spp., Pseudoterranova decipiens, and Vibrio parahaemolyticus.

That being said, here is my solution when that trollihg line catches more fillets than I can fry in butter and soy. No cook, no refrigerator (never lasts very long anyway). Haven't got sick yet off my own Ceviche or anyone elses for that matter. And some of those of were rather suspicious. (Ceviche con what?)

Cube your fish to 1/2"
For each pound of fish add in glass container
Juice of 6 limes and 1 lemon (Change ratio to taste or what you have. Need enough juice to cover fish)
Onion
Red pepper to taste (Fresh, Dried, or Tabasco sauce)
Dash of "English Sauce" (Worcestershire)
1/2 tsp salt.
Optional:
Celery
Cilantro
Garlic

Stir it up, and let sit for at least 8 hours. Good for 2 days with no reefer or ice. I have never been able to make it over 2 days before it's all eaten I usually make in large mason jar. Flip the jar a couple of times while it is marinating to keep mixed.

Serve  with soda crackers on the mid- watch.....

And read the disclairmer above again. Your mileage may vary.
(I keep my open mayo on the shelf as well..  Have been known to run with scissors)

[CharlieJ]

And besides that, when cruising down here on the Gulf coast,  putting beer or other food  in the bilge would just heat it up :D :D

Bay water temp right now is 85 degrees.

[Grime]

For some reason I can not find a Ceviche Recipe that does not require some form of refrigeration. 

[Frank]

For some reason I can not find a Ceviche Recipe that does not require some form of refrigeration. 

;D :o ::) :D ;) :o

[Jim_ME]

cap-couillon, appreciate the recipe.  :)

I remember being served some Cerviche scallops at a friend's years ago. One way to make sure that you don't overcook the scallops...  ;)

Now Colin has got me curious about how better to eat well without refrigeration... Do we have a Galley and Rations thread dedicated to recipes/menus/food favorites that keep well without refrigeration?

I remember the thread on canning aboard that Charlie started.

Update: And now see that John had started this thread on Cerviche

[CharlieJ]

These will give you a starting point-

Galley and rations section (where these posts are)-

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/board,11.0.html

Sailfar Cookbook-

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/board,18.0.html

Pressure cookery-

http://www.foodiegazette.com/cat/recipes/pressure-cooker

Non refrigerated foods-

http://www.foodiegazette.com/cat/recipes/non-refrigerated

[Jim_ME]

Thanks, Charlie.

I don't mean to sound biased against refrigerated foods...(to me known as just "food"...which I have some experience with already on land).  ;)

I guess that what I need is to go cruising long enough that my ice in the cooler melting is an issue...

[CharlieJ]

I guess that what I need is to go cruising long enough that my ice in the cooler melting is an issue...

Don't we all, don't we all :D

Working hard towards doing that again.

[rorik]

.... I guess that what I need is to go cruising long enough that my ice in the cooler melting is an issue...

Wait....wut? You can do that? All this time.....   >:(




;D

[marujo_sortudo]

Hey David,

Sorry to hear about your cancer.  It wasn't so long ago I was the only person eating aboard and there was more food going to waste then.  I think it's a lot harder, as you mention, to cycle through food fast enough with fewer mouths to feed.  I'm sure if we had a couple of teenagers around to add the crew, we'd probably be more worried about running out of food than wasting it.  Food is such a personal thing that I guess everybody just needs to find what works for them.  Thankfully, we can exchange ideas here and benefit from each other's experience.

Cheers, C

[Grime]

 8)