Shaft log woes

[Bonzai]

As I wrote previously I am having a leaky shaft log repaired. The work was initially estimated at 10-12 hrs by the mech doing the job. After haul-out and closer inspection the mech determined that it was going to be a slightly tougher job due to the fact that my shaft log is unusually long and difficult to access. A good bit of time was spent on removing the prop shaft, getting a coupling loose was apparently quite a hard job, but the 2 piece 8 ft long shaft is finally out. I am told that a stainless steel liner must be cut/hole-sawed out  but due to the length of the tube (again) this has become extremely problematic for the yard. I have been told that the mech has worked on the boat a few times but the boat still sits after 3 wks plus on the hard with the shaft out and nothing more. I discover that I am being charged a daily storage fee while it sits waiting on them to do something. I last offered to contact and get info on this particular problem fron S&S (desighner) or Chris Craft (builder). Don't know why they didn't do that as soon as they figured they were on alien ground anyways...... I was sent to voice mails on both and left problem description and contact info so hoping to hear from them.... I am beginning to feel not so nice about the situation, and plan to drive the 400 plus miles to the boat, rent a room there I guess since they have mine inaccessible, and see what I can "cause" to happen. Any suggestions from anyone? They gave me an initial estimated repair time of 3-5 days. It has been nearly 4 wks so far. Brunswick Landing Marina is doing the work. Thanks for any input. I have been advised by a very knowledgeable mech to have them remove my aft cabin floor, glass over shaft log to temporarily stop the water from coming in, and move the boat to another yard. I have fair faith in the mech doing the work but things are not going as planned and the yard won't let me personally work on the boat at all, or even help. And I feel like they are stumped.

[rorik]

You have a contract with the yard. They need to honor it. Period.
Will the yard accept payment in the same manner in which the work is (not) being done?
A time or cost overrun due to unforeseen issues is one thing.
Not doing the work because you're stumped and allowing other fees, like storage, to accrue while stonewalling your client is something quite different.
I've had some bad luck in the past, so I'll be the first to admit I have little to no patience for this sort of thing - BUT - give them a deadline, make quiet plans to move the boat whether they restart working or not, and push for them to pay the extra yard fees. Make sure the storage yard (if it's a separate business from the yard doing the work) is aware that the delays are being caused by the mechanic, not you.
I really hope you don't need to get a lawyer involved.
And as soon as you get to the boat, before you see the mechanic, take lots of pictures with a camera that date/time stamps the pictures.

[Snapdragon]

Bob,
First, I have to say that i admire your ability to maintain your composure. 
While I must admit that I am not a "marine mechanic", the prospect of fiberglassing the shaft log  closed seems a bit excessive. Wouldn't it be better to just fabricate and install a large expanding plug - much like the ones commonly used in small boat transoms - in each end of the shaft log?  That would keep the water out until you can move the boat to a place where you can control the work being done without creating new problems with the area to be worked on. 
It may be a better option to negotiate the cost of relaunching the boat and canceling any contracts without loosing any of the parts that they have removed, and find another marina that is not so restrictive. 

[Jim_ME]

It is an awful feeling to have a largish [by SailFar standards] boat in a boatyard and have a project start to go badly and feel almost trapped there by the investment that you have already made.

Been there. It was experiences like this that moved me toward a boat where the mechanical problems were in the form of a self-contained outboard motor that I could easily remove and take anywhere to be serviced. And a boat with a trailer where I could just drop the rig, hitch up and head to another yard or home. That is freedom. This is not much help to you in your current situation, I realize, but something to consider in the long term.

Back to the situation at hand... If the shaft log tube is still intact, couldn't you just reinsert the shaft, secure it, and tighten up the stuffing box on it to make it watertight and get towed (or push it with a dinghy and outboard) to another yard?

One other benefit of taking photos now is that you should be able to show another yard exactly what they will be dealing with and get a better estimate (ideally a firm quote and time frame).

On the other hand, once you have negotiated an exit plan, you are in the best position to give the yard one more chance to give you a firm quote and deadline to do the work. "extremely problematic" is not what you want to hear. Is the mechanic capable of doing the work and does he want to? If not, maybe you could get the yard to make an exception and bring in another outside mechanic who can, and allow you to help.

Obviously they gave you too optimistic an estimate initially. If they were not familiar with your boat type, they should have been more cautious and given you a realistic assessment of their capabilities, desire to do the job, cost range, and time frame, and given you the information that you needed to decide whether to haul out and try do the job there or at another yard. If things may become this uncertain, you want to know that up front. You deserve to be given some sense of what the range of unknowns are before you commit.

Would also be nice to know upfront what their policy is on storage charges during delays caused by them not proceeding on the work.

[Bonzai]

Hi Jim, I also have trailerable boat but got this one to cross to Europe on in a yr or two. I am heading down in a few days, I have to postpone back surgery first, and will get SOMETHING done I assure you. Those that know me are aware of how big a problem a determined lil bald guy can be! I am also taking bail money just in case!

[Bonzai]

Update.....Had a nice conversation with Cindy at the Marina. She has assured me that we can forgo any storage fees while my boat sits there on the hard awaiting repairs. This was my main concern at the moment, and they couldn't have been nicer about it. By their own admission the delays are the fault of having only one marine mech working right now. Hope the rest of it goes as smoothly as I would really like to see a yard here with a good reputation for repairs etc.

[Jim_ME]

That's good news, Bob.

Hope that it goes smoothly for you, too.

[Jim_ME]

There are nice trailers out there for even blue-water voyaging boats.

I like this one for a Contessa 26 with the float-off options and extending tongue. Would need some good water depth at the ramp...  ;D

[Bonzai]

Hi Jim, I really hadn't thought of a trailer for my bigger boat.....the draft isn't terribly deep, 4'8".... but I wonder just what it would take to haul a 35' long 20,000 lb. boat (plus gear) down the interstate. I have a 3/4 ton 4WD Surburban, but not sure that would be quite enough. What do you think?

[Jim_ME]

Bob, That's getting large.

I have seen used equipment flatbed trailers for sale in Craigslist fairly reasonably. One recently was a triple-axle 18,000-lb that happened to be looking to trade for a car hauler sized one (7,000-lb). I have been thinking about it.

Also about trading a pickup for a used 1-ton to 1-1/2 dual-rear-wheel truck to tow it. Maybe one with 4WD and a plow. I have a friend that has a tractor, backhoe, and excavator and that I might be able to use it to move those around. Also, He as a Ford F500 rack body that could pull it.

Potentially having multiple uses makes it easier to justify. Most would think that it's probably not very practical or affordable to invest in this kind of equipment to move one personal boat, but would hire it done by a boat mover.

My guess is that a 3/4 ton Suburban is only rated to tow about 8k lbs. My GMC 3500 (single rear wheel) pickup is rated for about 10k towing, even special ordered with a low 4.10 rear axle (or it would have only been 8k lbs).

I think that if the goal is to have a voyaging boat that you can also trailer, it is more practical to find one of the smaller capable boats, like the Contessa 26 in the photo with trailer (5500 lbs). An Ariel 26, Meridian 25, Cape dory 25D (and others) are capable but may be generally seen as a bit small for world voyaging, in terms of capacity to carry gear and provisions--although are about the same size as the in that regard. The Contessa 26 is quite popular for solo voyaging, where there is not as many provisions, etc., to store.  

Seems like the ideal for voyaging is to get up into a bit larger range--the Alberg Triton at 8400 lbs (read about James Baldwin's Atom) or Alberg 30 at 9k, for example, are very capable (and there are many others in these ranges on lists here in other threads) and under 10k lbs. Much bigger than this and you are leaving the range of capability of a typical 1-ton pickup. Of course it depends on how far you would be towing it, two trips a year to the local boatyard and back is one thing, towing a boat across the country at highway speeds is another. One other issue is that when your boat gets much bigger than the Triton 28, your beam is over the 8'-6" limit and you are supposed to get oversize permits.

The Westerly Centaur 26 is an interesting boat if trailering is a big consideration. It has an 8'-6" beam, sits a bit lower due the the 3' draft of its twin keels, is quite roomy, and is 6700 lbs, and capable of crossing oceans (not as sea kindly at the Triton or A30, though, no doubt). With a trailer, its tabernacle mast base makes rigging yourself doable.

If trailerability and the affordability and independence (may store and work on at home) that can come with it is your goal, I think that you have to optimize the boat for that.

Of course, there are many (on this site and especially beyond) that are doing fine with a boat your size and would not want to limit themselves to what is practical to trailer. As you live on a boat year round, and are not hauling out to store the boat for the long winter every October, the larger boat has more advantages, and any additional cost is spread out over the additional use.

This is where I should probably add...YMMV, and will be interested to hear the views of others with a range of boat sizes, uses, and experiences.  

[Bonzai]

Jim I say go for it! Sounds like you would have enough use for the equipment to justify if getting a pretty good deal. I am definitely not looking to downsize until I get the blue-water bug out of my system. I do have a shallow draft trailer sailer waiting for that day. It is 6,000 lbs trailer and all. I never intend to trailer this bigger boat. I figure it's going to take me another 3-5 years to maybe get done with the open water thing, then back to sanity and smaller boats again. I know James and Mae but have never been to his boat. I am sure it is impeccable judging from the work they have done on my boat. Really good people.

[Jim_ME]

Ah...you were kidding about towing your boat with the Suburban...  Hey, you gotta use the wink emoticon so I'll get it! ;)

I have not met James and Mae, and only know about them and Atom from their great atomvoyages website.

His many well-documented improvements are interesting.

And the Alberg 35 Saga refit, including removing an older diesel inboard and installing an outboard (on a 12,600 lb boat) and his reasoning for this.

When you wrote about temporarily glassing up your shaft log, I could imagine James recommending that you do it permanently...  ;D --but that is when I was assuming that your boat was no larger than an Alberg 35... At 20,000 lbs, you may need an inboard after all...  :-\

I think that this is the epic inboard vs outboard thread, if you haven't read it yet.

I don't know whether it makes sense to try to ramp up my equipment or not--or even if the trades are possible...could take some time...

When I read about your plans to use the large boat for a limited period of time it reminded me of reading Tania Aebi's log articles about sailing across the Pacific. I was used to reading about her voyages in Varuna, her Contessa 26. She got a much larger boat for the Pacific cruise, mostly (I believe) to have comfortable accommodations for her two boys and sometimes their father, and others, and [spoiler alert!] sold the boat at the end of the voyage.  

Again, good luck with your repairs--and plans.  

[Mario G]

I just did a shaft log removal from a Person 31 along with cutless bearing. About 3 hours due to things being corroded. I don't think it will take me much time to put every thing back together when the new parts come in.

[marujo_sortudo]

Well, I hope your situation improves.  Word amongst cruisers down near Brunswick was "don't use the BLM yard if you can help it."  Sounds like your experience is fitting into that groove.  The two days I walked their yard, there was NOTHING happening.  Best of luck, C

[Bonzai]

Hey guys and gals....I finally got my boat back from BLM. The original estimate was for around $1600-$1800 plus parts etc....final bill $4200 plus... ??? ::).. There were no storage fees on the bill, as agreed, but the labor/parts estimate nearly tripled. I am not saying, at this point, that these charges aren't justifiable as I haven't had time to go over the invoices and charges yet but will be doing so very soon as this large a discrepancy begs investigation. The only reason I have been given for the difference was that the job was harder than anticipated due to boats particularly heavy construction......I will keep this forum advised as I glean more info from the invoices etc. Main thing to me is baby is back home!

[s/v Faith]

Wow!  That is a significant increase.  Sorry to hear about that.

I just finished a haul out with a significant cost overrun.  The yard was great, and I knew the increase was coming.... But it still stings when the bill comes due.

Maybe you could scan and post the bill (with your personal info blacked out of course)....  We don't know exactly what will have been done for those line items but maybe it would help others to anticipate some of the unexpected charges.